Handle cable crimps

[redout]

Hi all.

The hot weather here is nearing an end and I am going to ( finally ) maiden my Banshee the moment the cooler weather arrives.

Examining my handle ( new ), I wasn't comfortable leaving the heat shrink in place over the two cable crimps and trusting that all was sound underneath.

Given the amount of time it takes to build a model, I wanted to at least eye-ball the crimps.

Personally, I don't think they are done the way that is recommended, for fishing lead crimping, which use this two-times-only-through-the-sleeve method.

I think the crimping direction should be as indicated by my arrows.

Can anyone provide confirmation of my thoughts ( or otherwise ) ? I don't have enough experience with line crimps like this and it will take a while to remove those copper sleeves as I obviously do not want to damage the cables. I am happy to remove the sleeves and redo the crimps if it is warranted.

p.s. I added the last photo to show the reverse side of the same crimp.

[the original Steve Smith]

I personally do not like/trust cable crimps. I would rather have wrapped lines and handle.

I hope that Dan McEntee weighs in on this.

Steve Smith
AMA 2112

[Dave_Trible]

I'd just cut them off and replace the cable.  It is sold in bulk at Home Depot.  1/16" braided cable.  Then wrap them with soft brass or copper wire and apply epoxy to keep the bind from unravelling.

Dave

[Jim Svitko]

I do not think crimping is the way to go.  If you want to use a cable handle, a proper swaging is one way to do it.

Cable and appropriate size swaging sleeves are available from McMaster-Carr.  I think I got the swaging tool there as well, but that was too long ago to remember.

Proof load everything when done, just to be sure.

[Fred Quedenfeld jr]

Attach the handle to a 150 pound weight and pick it up 10 times
that would be a live test
those crimps were used lots of times in combat   when done like your picture they did not fail at the crimp

Speed lines which pull more are wrapped
my 2 cents
Fred Quedenfeld

[katana]

Not that I have experience of either crimp termination shown, my feeling is that the first one shown is the better solution in that the crimp position is a) forcing the wire into a more complete contact with the ferrule and b) the crimp location separates the two wires whilst adding the crimps friction to the wires. The second is relying on the friction between the two cables as well as two 'half' crimps to prevent separation. Personally I can't see either of those shown to be failure prone . . . . . not when compared to what is attached to them and the fact that other handles use Paracord in lieu of wire!

[Dennis Toth]

Red,
The crimp connections are perfectly fine when done correctly. Bob Zambelli did a lot of testing on crimps and found them equal to or stronger than wrapped ends. The important thing is the size of the crimp ferrule (copper or aluminum material, not brass - can crack), the end prep of the ferrule and the crimp tool. The crimp ferrule should fit snug around the lines. The ferrule ends must be flared and smooth (take a 3x drill size and clean the ferrule ends to remove the hard edge, clean edge with 400 grit). When you do the end make a loop (or two) around the eyelet, pass the line back through the ferrule, make a loop back through the ferrule (leave ~1/8" of the cable loop outside the ferrule). Pull the handle side of the line to tighten the eyelet loop, hold this tight and apply the crimp tool, trim free end.

If you look in the AMA rule book you will see another crimp method that is also very good and has been used for years by many modelers. Again, the crimp ferrule ends must be flared and smooth.

For handle end since if using heavy cable only need to go through the ferrule once, leave 1/4" overhang.

Last note, don't solder or epoxy the line in the ferrule or even a wrap end, it causes a hard spot and will reduce the strength of the termination.

Best,    DennisT

[Jim Svitko]

I have never cut into a crimped connection so I can't verify what I have heard is the reason to avoid them--individual strands of wire can be broken and you never see that, inside the sleeve.  That point of compression can put excessive load on some strands and break them.  True, or not?

Wrapping, of course, avoids that problem.  Swaging compresses the sleeve more or less evenly along its entire length so breaking individual strands is not likely to happen.

I have seen only two crimps fail, one on a leadout, and one on the lines.  Nevertheless, two is too much so I either wrap or swage now.

[Geoff Goodworth]

I swag all my terminations.

The big thing is that I run the cable through the sleeve three times and, given that you will find tiny grooves from the braided cable inside the sleeve when you cut one open, the cable is not going anywhere.

Here is the tool I use for leadouts and a smaller one used for lines came from MBS. I can't remember where I got the Superflex tool and it was in Australia so hardly relevant for most on here. It was bought about fifteen years ago.

[redout]

I am in the "crimp/swage" camp as I think that provided the recommended procedures are followed, these connections seem to me to be very secure. I have already used them on leadout cables and took a lot of time to understand the techniques and get the right equipment. Also I see these types of connections pretty much everywhere e.g. crimps seem to be the "gold standard" for fishing wire leader fixings and swages on gym weight training equipment cables. I understand these are used here and other places because it is fast and therefore cheap in labour costs, but they seem to up to the job.

I have heard of people using needle nose pliers, vice jaws and chisels to "crimp" the sleeves. To me that is asking for trouble and I would never trust these connections.

Dave, I didn't even think to just replace the entire cable instead of trying to cut off the crimped sleeves. It will definitely be much less trouble to do that !

Jim, I like the idea of swaging instead of crimping but have to confess it is difficult for me to know the difference. In practice, it just seems that swaging is crimping with larger surface area crimps. I can get hold of a reasonably priced swaging tool so will look into this.

Fred, I will definitely test the handle when finished as you said.

Dennis, I follow all your crimping recommendations already and thanks for confirming the techniques.

And Geoff, I have a tool similar to what you show ( but it's referred to as a crimping tool in the literature I have. )

It was certainly worth asking the question and getting different views.

Thanks to everyone.

[Dick Byron]

This is what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/Crimping-16-304-Stainless-Ferrule-Aluminum/dp/B09WRB48ZV/ref=asc_df_B09WRB48ZV/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598232667012&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17634174749747346657&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026819&hvtargid=pla-1674741545176&th=1

[redout]

This is what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/Crimping-16-304-Stainless-Ferrule-Aluminum/dp/B09WRB48ZV/ref=asc_df_B09WRB48ZV/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598232667012&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17634174749747346657&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026819&hvtargid=pla-1674741545176&th=1

Thanks for the link.

I actually already have everything there except the cable. That is actually great information because the photos confirm how I remember to do the crimps including correct crimping direction.