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Author Topic: Hand Launch Gliders  (Read 9848 times)

Online Larry Fernandez

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Hand Launch Gliders
« on: May 19, 2020, 03:46:15 PM »
I talked with my son a few weeks back and he reminded me of the hand launch gliders we built when he was a kid.
He asked if I still had the plans for the gliders we built and would I send them to him. He wants to start building again with his kids.
So I had the plans copied (full size) and made templates for all the components of the Jetco Thermic series. the Thermic B, Thermic 20, Thermic 18 Thermic Trio and my own Sweeper.
I then went through my stash of "Elliot Wood" and sent off enough to build three or four of each. I think Aaron and the kids will have a lot fun with this.
 In the meantime, I built a bunch of them to send. (I also built a bunch for myself).

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team


Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 03:57:49 PM »
Lucky you, you still have an arm and coordination.  H^^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Online Dennis Nunes

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 04:10:59 PM »
You bring back memories of the old WAM contests back in the late 60's when they included Hand Launch Glider's. There were two different sizes that one could compete in but I can't remember what sizes they were (10"? 12"?). Those were the days!   ;D

Dennis

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 04:17:11 PM »
Lucky you, you still have an arm and coordination.  H^^

   Put a hook on them! That is why God invented sticks and rubber bands! I have built a few of the Thornburg Interceptor 404 catapult folding wing glider. I have plans and kits for all of these and more. When Sean sees this I'm sure he will jump in, as this is what he does when not able to do the stunt thing. Along with free flight rubber models, probably the biggest bang for your buck in model aviation.

   Larry, have your son try to find a copy of Dave Thornbug's "Old Buzzard's Soaring Book," for some great information of building , flying and trimming gliders. Bill Warner's "Hey Kid, Wanna Build an Airplane"  is another one and it's aimed at kids in the way it's written and included some simple plans. I've collected lots of other beginner type books for kids that have been published through the years and can provide more titles and such in the desire is there, and they can be found on eBay and Amazon. Lots of other plans and such on the internet. Just wait until they hook their first thermal and watch climb away!!
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Online Larry Fernandez

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2020, 04:26:36 PM »
I’m way ahead of you Dan. I found a bunch of old articles from the fifties and sixties written by the greats on building and flight trimming.
I sent the articles off with the care package I put together.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2020, 04:32:41 PM »
You bring back memories of the old WAM contests back in the late 60's when they included Hand Launch Glider's. There were two different sizes that one could compete in but I can't remember what sizes they were (10"? 12"?). Those were the days!   

   5" and 10", along with 10" catapult. Last one of those that I recall was at the old Woodland site (where I lost by 10" catapult glider, which had done something like 2 1/2 minutes dead air at 7 in the morning) on an ill-advised test flight. It went over the housing development across the street, so it was near the end of the site.

    I flew a fair number of those contests, usually at least "placing" in 10", and winning 5" Advanced by default once, mostly by "out-arming" the more skilled competitors. My first contest, after having built and flown over 100 HLGS over the years (my last  one was #161...), I entered Advanced 5" and 10". First official flight was 3 minutes OOS, so next time I tried to enter Expert, and the old hands solemly advised "well, you really want to stay in advanced for a while, until you learn some more". I did, and won the WAM glider "Grand Champion" trophy for several years in a row in Advanced by huge margins. I really wasn't that skilled, mine were built better, I could throw it higher, but I was absolutely clueless about picking air.

    10" was a worthwhile event, the small size intended to reduce the advantage of a stronger arm, and I had some pretty decent 10" models. 5" was *horrible* - try throwing a glider that weighs *3 grams*, it's a hyperextension waiting to happen. That one, I really couldn't out-arm anyone, it's like trying to throw a ping-pong ball, doing it twice as hard makes it go 6" higher. The successful 5" ers were effectively 10" gliders with vestigial wings, WAY heavier than they could be made, because making it glide slower is irrelevant if it only gets to 15 feet.

      Brett

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 04:33:35 PM »
Lucky you, you still have an arm and coordination.  H^^

    You might say "ape-like".

    Brett

Online Larry Fernandez

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2020, 05:00:53 PM »
A few years back I had heard that there would be a Hand Launch event at one of our contests. So I designed the Sweeper for the 10 inch event. At three grams, this baby kicks butt. Notice the carbon fiber fuselage boom.

Larry Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline EddyR

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 05:45:54 PM »
In the 1950-60's just about every contest had hand launch glider. Many  people back then were very good at it. Most were 17-19" wingspan. It got to the point that you needed a DT on it or loose it. Kerns Hobbys  held HLG contest in the middle of the street in front of the store on Saturday afternoons. Kerns was right next to the Chenango River  so a lot of them ended up in there. We also has .05$ glider contest off the bridge , longest flight won $ 5 gift certificate.
 EddyR
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 05:46:41 PM »
These simple machines really perform.  Here are classic Thermic 18 and 20 HLG with another I can't remember.

I've lost many of these things to thermals!
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 05:48:54 PM »
Lucky you, you still have an arm and coordination.  H^^

Larry has an exercise regimen that has given him tremendous arm and grip strength.  His glider throwing accuracy may be affected, however, by the hair on the palm of his throwing hand. 
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Online Larry Fernandez

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 06:03:29 PM »
Not bad Howard. But you still have a ways to go to be in Brett’s league.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2020, 06:28:39 PM »
A few years back I had heard that there would be a Hand Launch event at one of our contests. So I designed the Sweeper for the 10 inch event. At three grams, this baby kicks butt. Notice the carbon fiber fuselage boom.

    Indeed. I was using balsa/carbon laminates on the most recent HLGs and boost-gliders.

    Brett

Offline mike londke

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 06:31:58 PM »
3 Thermic 20's, 2 Maxi's and a Thermic Dart all built in the last few weeks.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 07:05:04 PM »
You can learn more about trimming from flying a few sessions of HLGs than 20 years of flying stunt planes.

   Brett

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2020, 07:16:59 PM »
My favorites Gold Rush.  Dead duck dethermalizer.  I’ve lost a number of these out of site nearly straight up in thermals.  I’m too lazy sometimes to mess with the DT fuse.
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Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2020, 07:17:45 PM »
These simple machines really perform.  Here are classic Thermic 18 and 20 HLG with another I can't remember.

I've lost many of these things to thermals!

Floyd, It's a "Thermic B", one of my favorites.

Larry, The Thermic "Dart" is also a good one. Back in my school years, we had an aviation club during "home room" on  on Fridays. Three of us were the main builders of the club.  We had a glider contest and I got beat by the "Dart" (darn it!)

Jerry

PS: 9 th grade.

Offline Pat Chewning

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2020, 07:21:40 PM »
Timely subject.  My grandsons and I are just starting this kit of 2 gliders.  I got the kit from a recent event in the raffle.....

Offline Dan Berry

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2020, 07:34:42 PM »
I don't throw those kinds of gliders anymore.
The idea of answering the sawbone's query " Dan, how did you tear your rotator cuff?" with "throwing a toy airplane" has no appeal to me.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2020, 08:02:07 PM »
I get that.  I tore mine slightly several years ago, don't remember how and it took a couple years to stop hurting.  Now I'm afraid to throw the gliders very hard.  That's my stunt arm.

Dave
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Offline Dan Berry

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2020, 08:15:55 PM »
I get that.  I tore mine slightly several years ago, don't remember how and it took a couple years to stop hurting.  Now I'm afraid to throw the gliders very hard.  That's my stunt arm.

Dave

Get a tip-launch glider. They do better and the arm isn't in danger.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2020, 08:31:51 PM »
Thermic B was my favorite in Jr. High. Later, a Flash, but my elbow hurt from max effort launches all the time. Turns out that the HLG experts only throw at about 80% unless they are forced to hit the 'burner. When I was flying my Flash on its last day in my possession, I chased a thermal for several flights, until it finally got strong enough to take it out of sight and out of my misery. Elbow got better afterwards.  y1 Steve
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Online Larry Fernandez

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2020, 08:51:53 PM »
Floyd, It's a "Thermic B", one of my favorites.

Larry, The Thermic "Dart" is also a good one. Back in my school years, we had an aviation club during "home room" on  on Fridays. Three of us were the main builders of the club.  We had a glider contest and I got beat by the "Dart" (darn it!)

Jerry

PS: 9 th grade.

Ahh, the ole Thermic Dart. I built a few of those and still have a couple of kits.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline mike londke

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2020, 09:01:43 PM »
I don't throw those kinds of gliders anymore.
The idea of answering the sawbone's query " Dan, how did you tear your rotator cuff?" with "throwing a toy airplane" has no appeal to me.
Me either, I have an 11 year old to do the chucking........ #^ #^
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Offline Dan Berry

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2020, 09:09:40 PM »
Me either, I have an 11 year old to do the chucking........ #^ #^
I still fly the event but it is vastly different with the tip-launch planes. No pain, no real fear of injury.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2020, 09:33:34 PM »
Message erased.

Keith
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:08:56 PM by Trostle »

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2020, 09:38:28 PM »
Not bad Howard. But you still have a ways to go to be in Brett’s league.

I could have said "by the hair on the palm of his Monokoting hand, with which he throws gliders." but I wanted to avoid piling on.
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Online Larry Fernandez

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2020, 10:52:58 PM »
I could have said "by the hair on the palm of his Monokoting hand, with which he throws gliders." but I wanted to avoid piling on.


Wow, in other words, it was an atempt at taking the high road. 🖕

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2020, 11:02:18 PM »
Nah, the monokote would make his hand too slippery.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Offline John Park

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2020, 03:19:02 AM »
Ah, chuck gliders!  On VE Day this year, the little cul-de-sac I live in decided on a celebration at three o'clock - everybody in their front garden with drinks and flags (all observing the correct social distancing, of course).  I reckoned an event like that deserved a Spitfire Fly-Past, so I quickly built a little Spitfire chuck-glider from a Bill Dean plan in my 1954 EAGLE Annual (EAGLE was the classiest of all British weekly comics of the period).  A catapult hook and a rubber band enabled me to put in a few decent little flights.  I hope my neighbours were amused, and didn't regard me as a crazy old fool.
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Offline John Park

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2020, 06:52:54 AM »
I should have said: this, the Spinner (https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=10779), is absolutely my favourite chuck glider of all time, in both 18" and 12" sizes.  I even built a 9" version that, catapulted straight up on a calm summer evening, returned regular 30 sec. flights.
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline John Lindberg

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2020, 07:11:20 AM »
This site has a lot on gliders, particularly "Stan's Stuff": https://www.amaglider.com/?p=home

Offline Alan Resinger

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2020, 08:26:09 AM »
The last time I saw Larry chucking, I noticed that his glider designs had devolved from graceful airframes into clunky looking, very unaerodynamic things that reminded me of a Fox 15.  Exceedingly poor glide ratio.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:20:41 PM by Alan Resinger »

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2020, 10:10:51 AM »
Years ago my son(JJ) and I built a glide.  He copied me in the cutting and sanding.  I tried very hard to get the air foil just right with thin trailing edge.  We went to the school yard at the end of the street.   As bad as his looked he got longer flights on every launch.  I finally gave up and quit. D>K
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2020, 10:18:03 AM »
growing up in Miami our group of kids flew HLG's .my last year as a SR, I won HLG at the King Orange
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2020, 11:33:37 AM »
growing up in Miami our group of kids flew HLG's .my last year as a SR, I won HLG at the King Orange
My second passion next to stunt as a teenager.  Flew with one of the best and had a ball.  Even got a couple of trophies.  I wonder if the arthritis in my right shoulder came from this or the Rat Racers I flew for one of the local guys or the Tennis?  Contests were more like Decathlons back then.  Stunt, Combat, Rat Race and at least 3 free flight events. How two of us crammed all the stuff into a Valiant 2 door and drove 200 miles evey weekend is ode to being 18 and too dumb to know any better.

Ken
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2020, 12:10:48 PM »
The last time I saw Larry chucking, I noticed that his glider designs had devolved from graceful airframes into clunky looking, very unaerodynamic things that reminded me of a Fox 15.  Exceecingly poor glide ratio.

Fox .15's inherently do not have a good glide ratio.

Keith

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2020, 01:28:59 PM »
Fox .15's inherently do not have a good glide ratio.

Keith

    In this case, The Hurl Committee and Hurl Technical Services extensive wind tunnel testing agree, although "ballistic coefficient" is closer to the appropriate figure of merit. This is why the extensive testing and impound of engines used for Hurl competition or record trials are strictly enforced. Filling the engine with lead, tantalum, tungsten, uranium (depleted or otherwise), as has been suggested repeatedly by various Hurl "innovators" (including the usual suspects, who for purposes of privacy are only referred to by their initials, like DLF), has such tremendous beneficial impact that even small variations in the weight, external form factor, or ballistic coefficient are very carefully controlled to maintain the integrity, and I will just say it - the Majesty - of the Hurl.

    As always thanks for your interest and your continued support for the international phenomenon known as The Hurl!

   Brett

   

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2020, 01:38:14 PM »
Fun memories!

First, building with friends - we pretty much could solve the problems of the world while cutting and sanding.

Second, flying at the Nats.  You could have an OOS (Out of Sight) flight and - most times - the Navy retrievers would have the model back for another try in a couple of hours.

There's something special about watching a thermal take balsa and spruce higher and higher ...


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline EddyR

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2020, 02:50:08 PM »
 The ultimate HLG flying is the indore flying.   I did fly in the blimp hangar at Lakehurst NJ a few times but did not do well as I was using my lightest outdoor glider and it was no match for the pro indoor guys.  There were guys who could through a glider all the way to the ceiling and pull out flat right next to the ceiling girders.
   When Tropicana Field opened in ST Pete FL in 1990-91 there was a few indor contest there .  It was not considered large enough for HLG but it got added to the list of events.
 I entered one of my very old HLG and through it to the roof and it flew through all the ceiling braces and did not hit any. I won with a time off 77 seconds. The dome roof is a nightmare of internal bracing. At the time I was only working a few miles from the dome and I would go over using my contractor pass and sneak in practice flights. I found if I stood in one spot and through straight up it would work.
EddyR
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2020, 04:00:44 PM »

 The ultimate HLG flying is the indoor flying.   

EddyR

I agree.  I got to fly in several blimp hangars, using my outdoor gliders in the 60's and 70's.  Not much of an arm.  Got up to about 40 seconds.   Then I saw the good guys that were getting more than 60 seconds and at that time, I think the record was well over 100 seconds.  That is incredible stuff.

Keith

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2020, 05:28:41 PM »
I have really enjoyed this post/thread because rubber powered models and hand launch gliders are something that I always wanted to try but just never did.  Now, at 72, I think if would like to try it.  I know absolutely nothing about either rubber power or HGL but would like to try both.  Where would I go to order kits of both rubber power and HGL for something simple that I could start with and have some fun?  Thank you in advance for your help \.

Mike

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2020, 05:44:43 PM »
   When I was flying F/F competitively, I was a follower of the Stoy brothers, Stan and Mike.  I flew their Wasp built up outdoor glider, and Coot indoor glider. They had a pretty extensive article published for each. The Wasp was a pretty conventional design, just used a built up wing in an effort to keep it light. They were competing and published the design at a time similar to today, where good balsa was hard to find due to the super tanker situation and oil crisis. I did pretty well with those and still have a few bits and pieces of my last ones laying around some where. My biggest problem with them was keeping Sean from sneaking them out  to fly! He loved to throw them and would do that all day long, but I could never get him to build his own! He is a member of the Mountain Men club out in Colorado Springs  these days and is well into tip launch and catapult glider. If I ever get my act together I have a few kits of some simple tip launch models for myself.
   The Coot was a whole different story! It was one of the first flexible wing gliders that had "flaps" that flexed flat on launch, and as the glider lost speed, they flexed back into position for the glide. Wood weight and grain was critical. The wing started out as 1/8" thick wood and you carved it into the airfoil shape once you cut  it to the outline. Properly done, the wing was about 1/16" thick near the leading edge, and just aft of the high point of the air foil, it tapered to .010" or .015" at the trailing edge. Tail surfaces were that thin also and you could read a news paper through the balsa! It was VERY difficult to trim for launch and transition. It was supposed to be thrown straight up, and at the top just curl over to a flat glide. I never got one to work exactly like that, but was a mixture of the straight up launch and a roll out t the left. I forget what the Cat.1 record was at that time but I got to where I could consistently get 30 to 33 second flights. Sean and I entered a local paper airplane contest one at a local community college , which I won the duration portion , and then got out my Coots to get in a little practice. I walked to the far end of the gym in order to be out of the way pf the rest of the contest And after checking trim, put up a good toss. It caught everyone's eye and the whole gym came to a stop! Except for Sean and myself, no one had ever seen anything like it! There was a Post -Dispatch reporter there and both of us were part of an article and Sean got his picture on the front page in color! At a local indoor contest at the old Parks College, some one introduced me to Ken Blackburn, who had just started to work at McDonnell-Douglas and just had set a world record for paper airplanes at 17 seconds at that time and had put out a paper back book on it. We chatted a while about gliders and design and I got the distinct impression that I was supposed to be awed by his presence there. I let him toss up a few flight with a paper glider first, and he was in the 15 and 16 second range, just short of his record. I did a few trim tosses with my best Coot, and then ripped off a 32 second flight that made his eyes pop out! He asked for a closer look at the glider so I let him check it out, but would not let him throw it. I forget what the weight of a piece of paper was but a good Coot needed to weigh about 3 grams, damn hard to get them any lighter and if anyone did that was when carbon tow came into play to re-enforce wing joints and such so they could handle launch stress. I will have to convert my old ones to catapult launch some day. No way I could throw them at all now. I got to meet and know Stan Stoy when he lived here near me and was working for MAC on the Aquilla drone program, I think it was, and he was supposed to get with me some time and teach me how to master the Coot, but unfortunately, that never came about.
     Another good design for kids or just for fun in general is the Lunch Box by John Oldenkamp, I think it was. Cute little booger that can be mass built and launched by a group of kids and very thermal worthy. And like the name suggests, it will fit inside a typical metal lunch box! It was in Model Airplane News back in the late 60's or early 70's. There is a website called freeflightarchive.com with a good section on F/F gliders with downloadable plans. And as Mr Trostle mentioned, the old Flying Models magazines had lots of glider designs in them back in the 50's and 60's. Just some more stuff I have to find some time for!!
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2020, 08:52:54 PM »
I agree.  I got to fly in several blimp hangars, using my outdoor gliders in the 60's and 70's.  Not much of an arm.  Got up to about 40 seconds.   Then I saw the good guys that were getting more than 60 seconds and at that time, I think the record was well over 100 seconds.  That is incredible stuff.

Keith
1965-66 I lived across the street from the Lubbock Christian College indoor sports facility.  I flew over there all the time.  I was about 50/50 CL Stunt and Combat (lots of combat in Lubbock) and HLG.  I flew the designs of my best friend Don Chancey.  He had an indoor HLG design that constantly turned in a 1:10 once you figured out how to get it to roll out just under the ceiling which I think was around 60'.
We would binge build what was later published as his "Bo Weevil" HLG, some "Time Machine" 1/2A's and what would become his "Poacher" A-2 Nordics.  Load all of that and my Stunt ship into his 2 door Valiant and drive all night to some contest.  With three days of lacquer fumes and no sleep we were a sight.  Amazing that we could compete but we always came home with trophies.

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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2020, 09:28:39 PM »
In college we flew a lot,of cat 2 indoor hlg. Pretty good, probably not earth shaking. 45’ ceiling, and Eric Greenwell did the best time I recall at 45 seconds. When I was at home I flew at the Wilmington site against Lee Heinz and always lost by about 2 seconds in the 30 second range.

By chance, the rules changed to require a two flight total and I lucked into flying a contest with Bud Tenny in Texas. Zap! An instant national record!

Sadly, my coordination has gone bye bye, and coordinating launching anything in a straight line seems history. Table tennis is hopeless too. Sigh... 

I can still fly the pattern, at least.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Offline John Park

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2020, 01:31:03 AM »
I have really enjoyed this post/thread because rubber powered models and hand launch gliders are something that I always wanted to try but just never did.  Now, at 72, I think if would like to try it.  I know absolutely nothing about either rubber power or HGL but would like to try both.  Where would I go to order kits of both rubber power and HGL for something simple that I could start with and have some fun?  Thank you in advance for your help \.

Mike
Hello, Mike.  I'd say don't bother with kits in the first instance - try this: https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3068.  These simple rubber models can perform astonishingly well, and will give you plenty of good practice in trimming, handling rubber and, if you haven't done it recently, building a light tissue-covered wing without anything but intentional warps.

Regards
John
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2020, 05:45:43 AM »
..... building a light tissue-covered wing without anything but intentional warps.

Regards
John
You can do that ... wow!

Ken
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Offline EddyR

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2020, 07:52:42 AM »
 Since we are talking about indoor models I am surprised doc Martin from south Floridian name has not come up.
   I helped put. on contest at the Delta repair hangar at Tampa airport. It was part of thr KOA one year.  Doc came up from Miami and we became friends. He invited me to come and stay at his home for indoor contest. I had held a lot of outdoor rubber powered models when the motor broke so I was use to it. Doc pulled out that small indoor model motor out to about 10 ft and had it half wound when it broke. Small model and small motor but it almost put me on the floor as it was so fast and no warning. That motor took off my glasses so fast I did not know they were gone After that I wore a small face mask    Doc went on to be world champion team member.
  EddyR
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 08:14:12 AM by EddyR »
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Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2020, 12:22:33 PM »
For the last 5 years we have used the Mountain Lion from LaserCut planes as the first build for our local after-school model airplane building club.  It is a great introduction to model airplane building and it flies really great.  Rubber powered, it can easily do a minute outdoors.

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2020, 04:41:48 PM »
Hi Larry
My Dad, Chuck Furutani, was one of the founders/president of the Wilmington Indoor Club. One of the WIMAC accomplishments was establishing indoor ceiling height categories. Once that was done, new AMA records were being set all over the country. Soon, outdoor FF followed suit and established field size categories.

Norm F


In college we flew a lot,of cat 2 indoor hlg. Pretty good, probably not earth shaking. 45’ ceiling, and Eric Greenwell did the best time I recall at 45 seconds. When I was at home I flew at the Wilmington site against Lee Heinz and always lost by about 2 seconds in the 30 second range.

By chance, the rules changed to require a two flight total and I lucked into flying a contest with Bud Tenny in Texas. Zap! An instant national record!

Sadly, my coordination has gone bye bye, and coordinating launching anything in a straight line seems history. Table tennis is hopeless too. Sigh... 

I can still fly the pattern, at least.

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2020, 09:23:35 PM »
growing up in Miami our group of kids flew HLG's .my last year as a SR, I won HLG at the King Orange

Hi Bob, the very first "model airplane contest" I enter, was at the King Orange, 1957. (I grew up within a bicycle ride to Master Field) I was 10 years old and I believe the entry fee was (best I remember a dollar) You were given a small North Pacific glider, that you had to assemble yourself (without help) and were given a few test glides. Then you were "total timed" for three flights. I won a brand new, just introduced, Cox Pee Wee .020. You would of thought I hit the lottery. BTW...I still have that .020.
Norm
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Offline Bruce Shipp

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2020, 02:36:08 PM »
Dan, I think my dad still has one of your Wasps hanging in his shop.

June and I lived in Winnipeg, MB in the early 2000s. The local RC club flew free flight each winter in an Air Canada hangar at the Winnipeg airport.  The hangar could hold 4 757s if I recall. 60 or 70 foot ceilings.  The boys and I had a box full of Lunch Box gliders and wore ourselves out.  We also flew rubber powered: parlor planes and easy Bs, peanut scale and walnut scale. Great fun.

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2020, 04:23:15 PM »
"Catapult" gliders are not "hand launch".  Catapult-launch should be in a separate category and called as such.

For some of us old geezers, catapult -launch remains the only remaining option.

Too bad.  I really enjoyed HLG, while my body was still in a mood to cooperate.
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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2020, 04:57:59 PM »
Based on today at the field, I am not sure my body is in a mood to co-operate ;)

In any case, here are the HLGs I put together recently. Two Bo Weevils and two Sweepette 19", from Campbell's Custom kits.
Finish is polycrilic, three coats wiped on and wiped off. Nice to work with (no odour), but makes the usual "hot breath on the surfaces to adjust them" impossible.
Still working on trimming them, not working the way I remember!
Part of the problem I think is that my throw sucks at the moment, and is not consistent. So hard to work on getting a good flip from the climb into the glide.

Here is a video from a few years ago of the last Bo Weevil I had. It was pretty well trimmed, quite consistent.After many good flights  I lost it OOS at about 8.5 minutes.
 I was chasing, but a drainage ditch full of water got in the way.
By the time I backtracked around the ditch it was too far away to keep in sight, and still going up.



I also built a tip launch, but have not quite finished it yet.
 It will almost certainly fly better and be easier to launch than these, but just does not have the same "charm". Or perhaps it lacks nostalgia :)

Also working on some small FF rubber models. With no prospect for any C/L or R/C glider contests this season, I am taking the time to play with some of my old interests.
 

Pat MacKenzie
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2020, 06:57:43 PM »
Based on today at the field, I am not sure my body is in a mood to co-operate ;)

In any case, here are the HLGs I put together recently. Two Bo Weevils and two Sweepette 19", from Campbell's Custom kits.
Finish is polycrilic, three coats wiped on and wiped off. Nice to work with (no odour), but makes the usual "hot breath on the surfaces to adjust them" impossible.
Still working on trimming them, not working the way I remember!
Part of the problem I think is that my throw sucks at the moment, and is not consistent. So hard to work on getting a good flip from the climb into the glide.

Here is a video from a few years ago of the last Bo Weevil I had. It was pretty well trimmed, quite consistent.After many good flights  I lost it OOS at about 8.5 minutes.
 I was chasing, but a drainage ditch full of water got in the way.
By the time I backtracked around the ditch it was too far away to keep in sight, and still going up.



I also built a tip launch, but have not quite finished it yet.
 It will almost certainly fly better and be easier to launch than these, but just does not have the same "charm". Or perhaps it lacks nostalgia :)

Also working on some small FF rubber models. With no prospect for any C/L or R/C glider contests this season, I am taking the time to play with some of my old interests.
 

Pat MacKenzie
Boy does that bring back memories. If you ever have the opportunity to build another Bo Weevil, DO IT but trim it differently.  It was designed to turn with only stab tilt so that it would tighten up in lift and not spin in.  Both rudder and stab were lightly airfoiled.  Don't know if those made the Kit version.  In calm evening air it should do two turns and about 1:10 - 1:20.  The launch is really close to what I remember.  Launched at 45 and it would do a nearly straight up climb with a half roll.  I am pretty sure there are bunch of them still up there!  There were two indoor versions (one for Cat II and another for Cat III) that Don and I flew.  The Cat II was under cambered the III was lighter, had no DT crud and less dihedral at the tips.   We never named it.  I think his son still holds the Junior Record with it.  Regretfully, Don is no longer with us.

Ken
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2020, 07:18:18 PM »
               This post is great, my son and I built the Thermic B, the Bo Weevil and the Sweepete. I miss Campbell's kits. I do understand that they're still currently made by another manufacturer now being laser cut. My dad gave me a Thermic B 40 years ago. He said to me READ the instructions. I built two left outer wing tips from the airfoiled sheet stock. Not knowing how to fix it, I put it back in the box and finished it 40 years later. I completed it, but I had a heck of a time getting it to level out when it was up high. Dan Banjock helped my son with it and last year in the winter we took it out. My son tossed it and it just kept circling and climbing gaining probably 10' every time it circled until it flew out of sight. We never recovered it, I trimmed it with the red Japanese tissue just like the box. I recall Penn Valley hobbies rekitted the Jetco Thermic B and I never took the liberty to purchase another. I had another of Campbell's which was the Obarski which also did fairly well. Good stuff

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2020, 07:48:08 PM »
The kit for the Bo Weevil actually showed an anhedral stab, but you can find the original magazine drawing online and it shows the correct stab tilt, which is how I did it.
But it just wants to fly straight anyway, so I have a bit of left rudder, and a small "aileron droop" on the left wing to get it to turn but not spiral in.
I am pretty happy with the glide now, but just not getting the same sort of transition as the one in the video had.
 But that could just be me being a bit older and more out of shape, and not throwing it properly :)

My old one was good for about 45 seconds in neutral air, with my somewhat anemic throws :)
The BoWeevel is pretty neat, the way it starts to rock back and forth (Dutch roll) when it is in lift. The Sweepette does not do this at all

On the other hand, the Sweepette plan did not show anhedral. Almost every other Sweepette plan I could find online shows an anhedral stab.
But I could not find the plans for the 19", mostly for the indoor models.  I built it with a flat stab, much simpler :)
They all show the wing mounted off centre to get it to turn, but again that does not seem to be working.
 So far I have it set up similar to the Bo Weevil, but it has a habit of spiraling in out of thermals. Keeps me from losing it at least :)

Pat MacKenzie
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Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2020, 06:47:37 AM »
  Searching for HLG kits I stumbled across Lasercutplanes.com. they kit rubber power, pretty cool.
Steve Kientz
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Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2020, 07:07:11 AM »
Quote
Searching for HLG kits I stumbled across Lasercutplanes.com. they kit rubber power, pretty cool.

As I said in an earlier post, get the Mountain Lion.  It is a great flyer!  And if you order 19 or more, it comes at a great discount.  It is the first build for the kids in our Fabulous Foo-Fighters Flying Aces Club.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2020, 09:17:49 AM »
I have really enjoyed this post/thread because rubber powered models and hand launch gliders are something that I always wanted to try but just never did.  Now, at 72, I think if would like to try it.  I know absolutely nothing about either rubber power or HGL but would like to try both.  Where would I go to order kits of both rubber power and HGL for something simple that I could start with and have some fun?  Thank you in advance for your help \.

Mike

   Hi Mike;
  I don't think your question got answered in full. The internet is full of plans and information. The National Free Flight Society has a web site full of information and sells products. Outerzone has more plans than you can shake a balsa stick at. The AMA has been selling a foam rubber model called The Alpha that has molded foam wings and comes with a winder. The winder is actually a pretty good unit and is reason enough to order up a couple of these. You will need a winder as you progress in performance. Guillows is still in business and they have a good line of beginner models. SIG still has free flight models in their kit like. Even the Delta Dart or AMA Racer can be a lot of fun, easy and quick to build, and can teach you lots of the basics. They can be scratch built out of lighter materials and used as an entry into indoor flying.  There is another site called freeflightarchives.com that has a lot of stuff also. With all the kit making that you have done, your scrap box has a lot of what you need and maybe yo have even thrown away some good stuff! Just pick a nice, HLG design that you like and add a hook of some kind to the nose and use a catapult. Start out easy and work up to real powerful launches.  I like to take the Guillows rubber models that come in a bag that are usually hanging on a hook at the check out of the hobby shop, and modify them for better performance. Great fun to fly on a clam evening under the street light. Flying Models even did an article on replica of some North Pacific dime store type rubber models. The party supply stores and departments of other stores have all kinds of different design tissue for covering rubber models with. The Peanut scale model class is limitless of the number of designs out there that you can download plans for, the same with what is called Bostonian class. And as Brett mentioned I think, if you can successfully build and trim out a free flight rubber model t fly correctly and consistently, you are well on your way to knowing how to trim a stunt model also. Or any model airplane for that matter.
  Good Luck and Have Fun!
   Have a Safe Memorial Day Holiday!
   Dan McEntee
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2020, 06:24:57 PM »

...But it just wants to fly straight anyway,...
That was by design.  The tilt should give you two very large circles.  Sometimes we added a tiny amount of clay on the left tip.  The Bo Weevil was so successful because it found lift by covering more sky then it would tighten up and center in lift.  In the later versions we used Obeche instead of spruce.  You could twist it and change the stab tilt and it would hold sort of like tweeking flaps.   The key was a super high launch and the wide search for lift.  Our wings were covered with tissue and lacquer to a rubbed out mirror finish.  Then we cut the sections and glued the whole thing together on a jig.

Fantastic glider - Ken
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Offline Don Chandler

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2020, 07:44:55 PM »
My first control line contest was in 1969 in Hayward, California where I actually flew 5 and 10 inch HLG. Got a second in 5" a home made plaque by Dick Douglas. I still have that first "trophy" hanging out in my shop.

Offline John Park

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2020, 07:07:38 AM »
A few days ago, I was rummaging in my scrap-box when I found a piece of 1/8" sheet, about 7 lb./cu.ft., with the most beautiful quarter-grain pattern you ever did see.  There was just enough for the wing of a 12" HLG, so I set to and made one of my favourites, the Frank Koditek/Bill Fletcher Spinner from about 1950.  As a boy in the mid-1950s, I made quite a few of the design, actually losing a couple in thermals.  I've just finished cementing thread along the wing LE, an old trick we used to prevent damage to the LE when the model landed in a bush.
(The first model aircraft I ever flew was a 12" span HLG, made the previous evening by my father.  It was also the first model aircraft I ever broke - hence the baffled expression on my three-year-old face!)
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2020, 10:38:56 AM »
I'm working on a Challenger HLG. Built a lot of these.
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2020, 03:09:46 PM »
back when I was tossing a lot of HLG, I got more kick out of designing my own.  A lot if them were terrible, and quickly discarded.  But I stumbled across a couple of real winners-- quite by accident, of course.

I wonder if those "miracle" designs which were ether kitted or published were also designed "by accident"?
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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2020, 12:53:53 PM »
Since we are talking about indoor models I am surprised doc Martin from south Floridian name has not come up.
   I helped put. on contest at the Delta repair hangar at Tampa airport. It was part of thr KOA one year.  Doc came up from Miami and we became friends. He invited me to come and stay at his home for indoor contest. I had held a lot of outdoor rubber powered models when the motor broke so I was use to it. Doc pulled out that small indoor model motor out to about 10 ft and had it half wound when it broke. Small model and small motor but it almost put me on the floor as it was so fast and no warning. That motor took off my glasses so fast I did not know they were gone After that I wore a small face mask    Doc went on to be world champion team member.
  EddyR

Hey Eddy,

I dug up this ancient thread just so I could post this pic I took long ago with I "think" the old Minolta SRT 101. I wish I could have found a higher resolution scan.
Here is you with Doc Martin winding one up that day.
Eric

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2020, 04:23:31 PM »
 Thanks Eric.   Who is that guy with the red hair?    That has been gone for a long time. Do you remember what year that was? Maybe early 1980’s. Bill Rich,Eric ,BilL Wilson and I did a lot of contest together.
 Ed
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Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2020, 04:28:24 PM »
For the past several months I have been playing with 12” catapult gliders. We have a free flight group up in Palm Bay that one of our group flies with on occasion and he started to talk about these gliders. Glider was my first love and the event I won my first contest in. I started playing with it and developed a simple design with a single dihedral that I set for a very tight falling leaf circle (lazy, don’t want to chase it too far). Once I started bringing it to our Saturday flying sessions I got hooked, This gets two birds with one stone, I get the have lots of fun shooting these little ships and I get some exercise chasing it.

Best,  DennisT

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2020, 07:51:56 AM »
Thanks Eric.   Who is that guy with the red hair?    That has been gone for a long time. Do you remember what year that was? Maybe early 1980’s. Bill Rich,Eric ,BilL Wilson and I did a lot of contest together.
 Ed

I don't know, but I think it's the same guy who had recently given up on his flat-top haircut !  ~^

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2020, 09:42:46 AM »
Out in the garage, I have a kits of a Flash, US Kid and I think either a Polly or Bo Weevil. Also a few of the 404 and 74 AJ gliders. I lost a great flying Flash at a Boise contest years ago during a "test" flight. Chased it on a motor bike for ten miles,  Came to a huge gully and had to stop. Damn glider just kept on going. LL~ H^^
I am rooting for the  Bo Weevil.  Lost more of them than I can count.  We used to trim them at night just so that we didn't accidently catch lift.  Never went 10 miles though.  That is dedication!

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Art Jessup

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2020, 10:23:20 AM »
TY, I have had success with the U.S.Kid, i think you will like it.
art

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Hand Launch Gliders
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2020, 10:32:24 AM »
I still have one of Artie's old HLGs.  That thing flies a thousand times better than any I ever built!  Super long flights in the evening on the L_Pad with it!
Steve


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