Doodle Streak - Another question

[Mark Mc]

I have an ARF Flite Streak that I converted to electric a while ago.  As I tend to build and not fly, it got pushed aside while I built other planes.  I recently resurrected it, as I'm thinking of flying closer to home, and need an electric to not @#$% off the locals.  I have put five flights on it, and it just doesn't feel quite right.  Not like my previous ARF Flight streak with an OS .25 LA-S on it.  Of course, that .25 powered plane didn't last past 10 or 12 flights before I broke it in a too-lazy-8.  But this one just doesn't feel, comfortable, I guess.  It has plenty of power.  In fact, I need to slow it down just a tad.  It's doing 4.8 second laps on 58' .015 lines with plenty of line tension, and could do with a little more mosey.  It balances out right at 1 5/8" with no nose or tail weight.  I don't remember what it weighed, and it's a little too late now, I've already cut off the stab and fin. 

Power package:  Turnigy 35/36 1400KV motor spinning an APC 9x4.5E prop.  Generic 40 amp Hobbywing speed controller ('cause that's what I had sitting around).   An FM-0c timer and 2200 mAh 3S battery from Brodak.

So, after thinking about what to try next, I figured I'd Doodle it.  I read all the Doodle Streak threads that came up on a search, and started cutting this afternoon.  I cut the new tail surfaces by following these measurements by Stan Tyler:

For everyone that's interested here's the details of the Doodle Streak tail:

Stab:
Chord - 2 1/2" Same as stock
Span @ TE - 22"
Elevator:
Chord - 1 1/2"
Span @ LE - 22"
Span @ TE - 23 1/4"

The fin/rudder is about 80% of the original size, just take the stock fin/rudder and reduce it to 80% with a xerox machine. Simple but effective. Use essentially no rudder offset other than just a little to be sure that it's not offset to the inside of the circle.
 The moments are not changed, it goes in the same place that the stock tail does.

23 1/4" span elevator?!?  Seriously?   This tail is HUGE!  It just seems too big to be correct.  Are these really the numbers I want to use?  I'll use a 1 1/4" control horn on the elevator with the pushrod in the innermost hole on the bellcrank, but geeze!  I'll wait to cover and install the stab/elevator until I hear positively from Y'all.  I have a set of SIG Fazer landing gear to install in the meantime.


Mark

[Larry Renger]

Yes, those are the correct numbers. I asked Wild Bill Netzband to figure them out and they work great.

[Matt Brown]

I would think 4.8 lap times are just about perfect for a FliteStreak. Can you elaborate on how it didn’t feel right???

Matt

[Larry Renger]

Just the much enlarged horizontal tail and elevator.

[Larry Renger]

The Doodle Streak becomes a smooth, bounce free competitive stunt machine. The Flite Streak was intended to be a competitive combat model, so quick response was the goal. Stunt has other requirements.

[richardm]

Doodle bug flyers know that Wild Bills stuff works better than most would expect

[Mark Mc]

Larry and Richard, I was not implying that I did not believe that the Doodle conversion was an improvement for stunt, I was just seeking clarification that there was no transposition or typing errors on the numbers I was going by.  As I said, the tail surfaces I made up to those numbers is just huge in comparison to anything I've ever built/seen for a .25 sized model.  I measured.  Cut.  Assembled.  Measured.  Measured.  Measured again...

Hopefully I will be able to appreciate the improved handling even with my own meager abilities.


Matt, when I say it just doesn't feel right:  It's just an uneasiness.  As a still-in-the-beginner stage, I know that pretty much every model I've built is capable of flying better than I can fly it.  But for some reason, I just had no feeling of confidence with this plane on the end of the lines.  Don't know why. 

After I do the Doodle mods, put on the Fazer gear legs, replace the bellcrank/leadouts, and make up the new hard point handle I got at the Regionals, this should be like a fresh start with a new plane.  I'm actually a getting excited to get this done, now.

Mark

[Mark Mc]

Okay, I have the elevator and stab installed.  The control throw is 26 degrees up and down at the moment.  What would be a suggested starting range for the elevator up and down to be?  Or not to be?

Mark

[Douglas Bykoff]

In last three months I made 2 electric Brodak Lightning Streak.

My setup is quite diferent, but with good results.

1st plane:
Motor: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 2836 1040Kv
Battery: Tattu 4s 1550mha
ESC: Yep 30A with governor on
Timer: Fiorotti's CL timmer
Prop: APC 9x5 sport
Weight: 720grms

Fly time is 4:00 min
Lap time: 4,8s/lap
Cable: 17,50mts/012
Power consumition 950mha


2nd plane:
Motor: NTM propdrive 2836 1200Kv
Battery: Tattu 4s 1300mha 75c
ESC: Castle talon 25A with governor on
Timer: Fiorotti's CL timmer
Prop: APC 9x5 sport
Weight: 600grms

Fly time is 4:00 min
Lap time: 4,8s/lap
Power consumition 800mha

I made a video of my first plane:

[Fred Constantine]

Mark,
26 degree elevator travel should be fine.  Check the "At the Handle" thread for proper control sensitivity, etc. 
I came back to stunt after 35 years, and chose the Flite Streak because that is where I left off.  It worked great and survived "kissing" the deck many times.  Repairs included enlarging the Stab and elevator significantly, so I think you are on the right track there. 
At first, I used R/C motors and batteries that I had on hand, but ended up with a set up similar to what Douglas Bykoff mentioned in his reply as plane#1. 

After several hundred flights the FS no longer exists, and I have moved on to more "serious stunt" fun.
Fred

[George Grossardt]

Mark,
26 degree elevator travel should be fine.  Check the "At the Handle" thread for proper control sensitivity, etc. 
I came back to stunt after 35 years, and chose the Flite Streak because that is where I left off.  It worked great and survived "kissing" the deck many times.  Repairs included enlarging the Stab and elevator significantly, so I think you are on the right track there. 
At first, I used R/C motors and batteries that I had on hand, but ended up with a set up similar to what Douglas Bykoff mentioned in his reply as plane#1. 

After several hundred flights the FS no longer exists, and I have moved on to more "serious stunt" fun.
Fred

Fred,

Did you lengthen the fuselage at all or is it stock dimensions?

George

[Fred Constantine]

George,
I don't have the dimensions anymore, but I did lengthen the nose to make more room.  I'm sure I lengthened the tail to counter.  For what it's worth, I have a terrible time building "stock" and have no problem cutting into a finished model to make it better. The result is that all of my models evolve, and that was certainly true of the FS.  By the time I was through, it had a sheeted leading edge, cap strips and flaps which worked quit well with the previously enlarged horizontal tail.  Sorry, no pictures of the final version.
Fred

[rob biddle]

 Hi Mark, this is an interesting topic as I'm currently building an enlarged profile peacemaker with the doodlestreak mods incorporated. Just wanted a fun flyer to get back into the pattern with while I build a decent pa ship and it needed to be a quick build that could handle rough air.

I scaled up the peacemaker just over 150% so that all the straight stock in the wing is 48", ends up roughly at 55'' span and will be powered by a magnum 36.

The peacemaker has slightly different proportions than the flitestreak so I just used the ratio between the fs wing and doodlestreak stab as a starting point to work out the stab size.

You're right the stab is massive! I could use it as a wing for a .15 size trainer lol. It's now covered, looking forward to getting some paint on and seeing how it flies.

Cheers, Rob.