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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Tom Luciano on August 21, 2019, 05:42:56 AM
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Get the old girls ready! It's time for the most exhilarating day of the year!
This year I will donate 6-8 la 25 powered Voodoos for anyone who wants to try combat. Two planes will be sitting on the 3rd circle fueled waiting for you to take a crack at it. These are completely disposable, so get out and try combat for the first time or knock 50 years of rust off.
Bring out those Vintage Combat planes and show, sport fly, compete in our speed runs, or our newly introduced speed stunt with combat planes. It's a day of fun and comradery enjoying the designs of the past. The LS stories alone are priceless!
Super Satan with stunt pattern at 118mph.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQMP6mnlang
Double Diamond on a 122mph speed run.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-odbub-oI98
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Cool. I will do my best to have my Nemesis done for then. Howard's welcome to fly it if he happens to stop by.
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Mike,
Thats great! I met Howard at the nats and busted him I would build him a plane if he wanted to come. He said he would bring his own G21 to mount on it. You got me off the hook! Lol
Tom
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Here is a reprint of the Speed Stunt rules;
The following is our guidelines/rules. We want to keep it light and encourage participation. Fly at whatever speed your comfortable with;
The objective is to perform the stunt pattern maneuvers in minimum time, from first entry to completion of the 4 leaf clover. In order to permit nostalgia combat airplanes to fly without oversize fuel tanks, only one full lap between maneuvers is required. The maneuvers are not scored per se; rather the pattern is reviewed by the timer to see that all maneuvers are completed in order.
Model Eligibility Any model designed, sketched, published, constructed or offered for sale in kit form prior to 1980 which could have been used in combat is eligible, the older the better. The use of original survivor aircraft is specifically encouraged. There is no prohibition of foam wings or plastic covering, but the competitors are at liberty to abuse the fakers who ignore the tradition of silk and dope .
-Fight Takeoffs and landings are not judged, hand launch is expressly permitted.
-Hand signal required on prior lap of the reverse wingover.
-Timing starts at entry into the reverse wing over and stops at the last crossing of the intersection of the 4 leaf clover.
- Four inverted laps are required.
- One and a half laps are required after the exit of the hourglass prior to entry into the overhead eight.
- Any or all of the following are permitted: level flight height as high as practical, short lines, or smaller maneuvers; all to minimize flight distance and time.
-An entry not completing all maneuvers shall receive no score, but will be accorded as many attempts as time permits.
Speed Runs
-Any engine that is non-schnuerle ported basically the 36x and g21-35 engines are the cutoff and any vintage combat design prior to 1980.
- No nitro content limitations
- 60' lines center to center meeting current line diameter requirements
- 10' high maximum level flight
Award given out for Speed stunt, speed runs, and the famed LS blown up Fox Award!
Most important rule is to have a "BLAST!"
Hope to see ya there!
Tom
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Hi Tom:
Very much looking forward to the Vintage Combat Festival! #^
I've pulled out of mothballs the Lester Grogan-designed Sweet Sweep that I started a few years ago and have it into finish now. It will be electric powered. Attached are a few photos of what it looked like last night. I pulled everything apart this morning and started doping! It will be finished for the event for sure. My plan is to enter it in the Speed Stunt event and also in the top speed event.
Later - Bob Hunt
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Here are a couple more photos showing the motor compartment in close up.
Later Bob
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Bob :
That's just plain frightening to look at.
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VD~ %^@
Bob...
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Hello
Would like to have a go organizing a similar contest here based on Tom's rules.
From my own experiences trying speed stunt is is a lot of fun and speeds up your reactions somewhat!
Mufflers rules here in NZ as applied to the old 35/36 engines can be tricky as not all like the extra heat
Bob's model look fast and mean. Nice but where does the 50% nitro go?
Regards Gerald
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Sweet Sweep = Sweet Jesus!! Looks like an awesome rig. Head to head with the old BB should be tons o fun! TS
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Gerald wrote: "Nice but where does the 50% nitro go?"
At today's prices, it would go in a safe deposit box... LL~
Tom: Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. I'm going to test fly it with a somewhat docile electric setup just to be sure there are no trim problems. I'd hate to have to chase this thing around at 100 plus mph on the first flight. A 1100Kv Power 10 with a 1600 4S battery will do the job. Probably an 8 x 8 prop. If things go well with the test rig, then Will DeMauro will install the juice in the form of a 1400-plus Kv motor and a 5S 1300 battery. That should put it in the realm of the BB for speed. Actually the "numbers" suggest 130 plus, but that remains to be seen. Not sure if this 72-year-old body can spin that fast anyway. :P So, no firm predictions.
This stuff is just raw fun! - Bob
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Will Demauro and I have sercet weapons coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come out and see on the 22nd!
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Have you guys considered the strength of the prop on a high power electric set up.
Motorman 8)
Yes!!!
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Punch in your GPS for the garden state circle burner field address is 140 Two bridges road Lincoln Park New Jersey
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Nice looking plane. It looks fast just on the bench.
Charles
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Hey Charles,
Yea, Hunt got his eyes on taking down the old Super Satan!
We Middlesex guys got out yesterday to shake some rust off. After one flight each we need a lot more shak'n. The jr. Satan, Double Diamond, and Super Satan were screaming!
Best,
Tom
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As Shug Emery would say, "Wooooo Buddy." There are a few of us infidels who are going electric at the Festival this year. We are in no way predicting a take down of the Super Satan, or any of the glow powered models in terms of speed. At least not yet... We may have a shot at the Speed Stunt event. We certainly have a shot at the new event we are proposing: Quietest Model. VD~
All of this is designed to have that which seems to be most elusive; FUN!
Later - Bob Hunt
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There is 1 thing i can guarantee. when you fly the pattern at 100+ mph, it is impossible to not be smiling. You cant help but laugh out loud when your flying the pattern. With electric we'll hear you! Quick anecdote, if you look at the super Satan video, most tricks are recognizable but when doing the triangles i didn't like the second leg as it was too steep so, i tried to flatten it. The plane was instantly behind me. I was lucky to save it. This being only the second flight on it. It now has 8 flights lol!
Tom
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I am totally enjoying this thread! Around 2001 or 2002 we were urged to have speed limit at the FCM and Allen suggested he and I should enter to support the kind guys who were running it. I got a fast ship around, put my LA25 on it and did so. I flew combat exclusively in the 60's, figured this would be a really super way to get back at it. HA! In the middle of the first match my opponent suggested we just fly level for a few laps as he was getting dizzy. I COULD HAVE HUGGED HIM!
Wow, does 75 MPH seem blazing now. Please keep these posts coming and I will cheer for all of you to have a great time. And I will enjoy the posts, guaranteed. #^ #^ #^ #^
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We are in no way predicting a take down of the Super Satan, or any of the glow powered models in terms of speed. At least not yet...
Later - Bob Hunt
[/quote]
I guess Ill hold off putting a tune up on my Fox MK VII. >:D
Al
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Hi Al:
Not predicting any speeds until we test fly, but I'll bet I score high in cool factor! I sprayed on a bit of Viper Red and shot a little clear on the beast this past weekend. It's not a "stunt" finish, but it should suffice. I just finished the details of hooking up the controls, installing the adjustable leadout guide, putting in a bit of tip weight, and mounting the motor. Will DeMauro is scheduled to come over on Wednesday to help me finish up the ESC and battery installation, and test fly both of our birds. We'll know more about potential performance then. Again, I'll be test flying this thing with a somewhat mild setup; an E-Flite Power 10 motor and a 4S 1600mAh pack. If all goes well, Will will inject the "juice."
This has been a fun project!
Later - Bob Hunt
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Here are a couple more shots of the Sweet Sweep...
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Looks totally awesome.
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Bob:
Your Sweet Sweep looks "evil"... pure and simple! Wicked "EVIL!!!" VD~
Hope you all will have a ton of fun this coming weekend.
Andre
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Very Nice Bob!
An inspiring model that should have a very high speed potential once dialed in.
A far cry from my last electric combat model a 5th Revolution (Aeromodellor plan) converted from PAW19 to a 550 size can Kyosho RC truck motor and 8 cell ni-cad (with small AE cells) pack in the 1980's
Looking forward to hearing how the Sweet Sweep goes
Regards Gerald
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Thanks for the positive comments Frank, Andre, and Gerald!
Just a bit more background on this ship: I originally built it just as an exercise to see how I would engineer it to be built in my Lost-Foam Wing Building System. I had previously built an I-Beam wing in the LF system, and reasoned that a severely swept wing would be easy to build in that system, too. It was!
I had originally wanted to build Larry Scarinzi's Sting Ray for the Combat Festival and make that electric, but there were no plans available. The Sting Ray, as most of you reading this know, has a swept forward wing design, and I knew that it could also be built easily in the Lost-Foam process. The Sting Ray - which is a derivative of the Greased Lightning series of models from Larry - has a much thinner wing, and I reasoned that it would be more difficult to "hide" the battery in that design. I'd still like to try that model in the future for electric.
Later - Bob
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Here are a few more of the build photos...
Bob
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And a few more...
Bob
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Really neat Bob! Looking forward to Sunday. Tried the Speed Stunt pattern with my Double Diamond. Too fast at about 115 mph for the pattern. Couldn't keep up, particularly for the square 8's. Seems like I'm only good to about 100 mph. I'll have to fly high with one of my more tame planes to try and cut the time and beat Tom, the record holder. I think I did about 1:32 last year. Tom was in the mid 1:20's. If you haven't tried it, it's a real hoot. Hard to keep from laughing while your trying to keep up and remember where you are in the maneuvers. especially with only one lap between maneuvers.
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Looks great Bob I’m looking forward to a flight on that tomorrow.i think we will get it to go plenty fast.
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Hi Al:
Not predicting any speeds until we test fly,
This has been a fun project!
Later - Bob Hunt
Hi Bob, I'm looking forward to see your plane it looks awesome!!!
Please be careful using the plastic electric props. Here is APC rpm limits from their website.
Thin Electric (E) Propellers
Maximum RPM=150,000/prop diameter (inches)
So you can only spin a 9 inch APC prop 16,666 rpm.
Al
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Thanks for the warning, Al, but I'm certain that we will be using carbon 8 x 7 and 8 x 8 props.
Looking forward to the event!
Bob
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18750 rpm is max, should we opt for the plastic 8x8 or 8x6 . We will most likely run carbon fiber props anyway. I also have my doubts that we will hit those rpm especially with an 8x8 . RPM most likely won’t be a concern. Cooling, battery usage and motor limitations are our biggest obstacles. We will go fast regardless. We will have fun for sure. We will be at least competitive.
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I told Bob that his ship is gonna screw him into the ground lol. ~^
Ditto some of the glow ships .
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Bob, wow!! The sweet Sweep Electric looks fantastic! The nose area is a masterpiece of engineering. I am so glad you finished the plane. Looking forward to a flight report.
Dale Jones
Katy, Texas
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Is it optical illusion in the photos? to my eye the forward of LE ---skeggs/ air dams(?) seem to NOT be parallel to the fuselage but skewed out...
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Not sure Fred. As I look at it, I find myself seeing a lot of B-52!
Tom
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Is it optical illusion in the photos? to my eye the forward of LE ---skeggs/ air dams(?) seem to NOT be parallel to the fuselage but skewed out...
It's an optical illusion, Fred. I thought the same thing when I aligned them. I double, triple and quadruple checked the alignment of the fences and they are on pretty darn straight.
I flew the ship this afternoon. Will DeMauro came over and helped me with the installation of the ESC, battery and timer. We took both of our planes out to a local RC field and test flew them.The Sweet Sweep flew right off the board with no trim adjustments required, except for the removal of a tad bit of tip weight. We didn't get an accurate time of the ship with the conservative motor setup, but we both think it was north of 8o MPH. Will flew the "hot" setup in his ship and it just blistered around. I'm certain it was going well north of 100! Then his motor burned up leaving a huge cloud of smoke strewn across the sky! It was most impressive. He sure found out where the edge was... He's going to install another motor and tame it down just a bit. Hey, until you try this stuff at it's limits, you just don't know what will work.
We are both looking forward to Sunday!
Later - Bob
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Looks like this is shaping up to be another EPIC GSCB Vintage Combat Festival!
IF you are within striking distance of this event you better BE THERE!!!
Y'all are gonna' have SO much fun!
Andre
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In a collaboration with Phil Cartier, we developed this VooDoo for this years event. Here is the prototype. It's half covered now, should be completed tonight. Unfortunately, work issues got in the way to put more together. This will be there for everyone to fly and enjoy. We can dork it to see how it holds up!
I want to thank Phil for the help and rushing the cores to me. This could be a fun event nostalgia speed limit or just Voodoo speed limit. Before covering its 15.5oz. This is the original sized Voodoo 36+". I'm hoping it does well. I'll have a speed limit plane there as well to have some matches between the two.
Tom
Tom
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Tom: Clean your bench off! VD~
Bob
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Super Satan with stunt pattern at 118mph.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQMP6mnlang
Tom, your Stunt Speed flight was awesome!!! Watching the Super Satan zoom through the clover at 118mph was really cool and shows off its amazing turning ability.
Ill see you Sunday
Al
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Tom: Clean your bench off! VD~
Bob
You noticed. See the red, white, and blue paint from getting the crossfire ready for the Nats!
TL
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Look out Im bringing the heat this year!!!! Lol
Remember there are 3 coveted trophies we are shooting for.
1. The Scarinzi speed award
2. The Speed Stunt award
3.The Infamous blown fox award
Defending champs
Speed -Al Ferraro
Stunt - Tom Luciano
Blown Fox- Tom Luciano SH^
We may need to add a fried motor award! Does anyone know where I can get one.........oh wait, I know!!!
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Thank you, Al!
Not sure I can pull that off again. Maybe I should put a patch over my eye!!
Tom
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You're not claiming to have actually watched that flight. are you! You weren't even facing the plane most of the time! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~Everyone ends up laughing!!
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3.The Infamous blown fox award
We may need to add a fried motor award! Does anyone know where I can get one.........oh wait, I know!!!
I think it's horrible you guys are mocking and destroying Fox motors, they're really good, I never had any problem with them.
Brett
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That broken Fox case is scary. Did it really break like that while running?
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I think it's horrible you guys are mocking and destroying Fox motors, they're really good, I never had any problem with them.
Brett
HMM, coming from a professional hurler.....I believe his tongue is firmly pressed in cheek. tsk,tsk…
That broken Fox case is scary. Did it really break like that while running?
Yes it did blow that way! As larry presented the award he said "I never seen one blow like that" take a look at the case on the award! It blew identical. We believe this to be the reason why the webbed version came a few years later. Maybe Andre knows the history on why Duke put the web on the exhaust port.
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Tom: Clean your bench off! VD~
Bob
That's the way most combat flyers build. the newest plane is in front, the older ones get pushed back off the end of the bench in a pile! Or they get put into two piles, one for the wrecks that might still be useful, and the repaired, flyable ones get hung from the ceiling.
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Maybe Andre knows the history on why Duke put the web on the exhaust port.
If you'll look at the original case configuration from the first "front loader" 35 Combat Special, the 35X, and 36X, up to the advent of the exhaust web, they were all the same: Almost NO case support for right at half of circumference of the case. That's nearly HALF the top of the case with no support. As nitro kept going upward, and guys got better and better at extracting power from the 36X, some failed as depicted.
Thus, around 1970, the web was placed in the exhaust port and that ended that.
While I'm at it: Took Duke a while to figure out that the exhaust was under far more pressure than the incoming bypass AND the exhaust was looking for the first hole to escape from and would exhaust quickly. When this dawned on him, the priorities sort of flipped: Instead of the exhaust being the larger of the ports, the bypass(es) was emphasized, and the bypass(es) got more opening area and the exhaust area reduced. This is more pronounced on later designs that used flow porting bypass systems. (i.e. Non piston-baffled porting.)
The above is strictly as I recall it and that recall feature is fading by the year. ;D
Andre
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The Sweet Sweep looks great, Bob. It's pointy and electric. Kind of like my favorite guitars as of late.
I regret I won't see it's debut this Sunday. Good luck with it (not that you'll really need it!). My own loud, gas-guzzling Nemesis II will have to wait until 2020, it seems.
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Sorry to hear you cant make it, Mike.
Andre, thank you for the insight on the progression of the X. Your memory seems good to me. Love your contributions, Ive learned alot!
Tom
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Okay... as I was in there brushing my teeth and prepping for bed... a memory file reconnected:
As I NOW recall it, the web was not installed to address case failures that a handful of engines had experienced, but as a side benefit, it did end up addressing it.
I now think I recall that web was added for a drill point for the exhaust flap for the new 36X R/C engine that was based on a modified 36X case. I'll need to wait until tomorrow sometime before I get out to my hobby room where my engines and parts are stored and verify my recollection, but I also now recall there as a radius added at the base of the square intake so the cases destined to become an R/C version could be bored to receive a carburetor w/round venturi. I highly suspect that on a C/L 36X you will NOT find a web exhaust without also seeing evidences of the radius at the very base of the venturi stack. (It's presence was not completely machined off for a C/L 36X.) IF that proves to be so, then my memory jog is likely the correct and real reason: It was added so as to give the ability to convert a C/L 36X into the 36X R/C model.
I also now recall that when I first hired out at Fox in early August of 1970, the 36X R/C was nearing, or on, the assembly line and I was honing pistons and sleeves for that model, as well as for the 35 Stunt.
Since I'm on a memory roll: A fellow modeler-turned-Fox-employee by the name of Chester Avis was the engine run-in man at the time, and once the 36X R/C's started passing through the engine run-in shed, carb issues were noted and the production numbers were very low. (Like maybe 30-50 engines a day, which was a far cry from the 300 or so 35 Stunts we could get through the run-in shed on a good day.) George Moir (the supervisor of assembly at the time) was tasked with finding the reason(s) and also finding a fix (or fixes) to minimize the issue.
SO, the above is the revised version of my memory for the reason for the web in the exhaust, with a time-frame reference for its inclusion, and anecdotes to boot.
Leastways, that's my (new) story an' I'm a'stickin' to it.
LL~
Andre
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Andre, That makes sense. I used the x/rc in profile carrier for a few years successfully. I got the motor and the 'Black Power' fuel from LS. The exhaust baffle also encouraged me to try it on a BB. Using the baffle and a fuel meter I could get a decent idle and pretty good speed on a Dumas Crusader used in local events. Of course once I put a K&B .40 on there the BB went back to combat ships!
Getting back to the subject. Looking forward to Sundays Festival at GSCB. Got a couple of unflown ships that need wringing out! Cheers, TS
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Looks right to me!
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Thanks Tom!
You saved me from having to tromp out to my out building (it's raining) and digging through my stuff!
Amazing that R/C carb is STILL epoxied onto the the engine in that last photo! An epoxied carb wasn't one of Duke's finer moments. When the epoxy failed, typically the carb swung into to the arc of the spinning propeller. Not good.
A follow up:
Though the carb on the 36X R/C was really a pretty decent carb (when everything was "right") it was finicky about production standards. As I recall it had idle, mid, and high speed adjustment needles. A good example, dialed in nicely, would idle very slow and the response to full speed would be instant. In my mind I can still hear Chester running those out in the engine shed... prrrrrrrr.. BRAPPP.... prrrrrr... BRAPP... BRAPP. Yup, I can still hear evidences of my years at Fox 24/7 in my ears: Riiiiinnnnnnnnngggggggggg.
Duke decided to throw in the towel on the 36X R/C and designed an entirely new sleeve bearing case and two-needle simpler carb. This carb was held in place with set screws. The case, back plate, and head were much lighter than the X model. All the innards were essentially 36X. Unfortunately, this new case was fraught with issues, and it was this line of 36 engines that I cut my teeth on when first given the Assembly department, but that's another story told before.
NOTE to X fanatics: The reuse of the 36X innards in a 36 R/C means that if you can pick up a nice example of the 36 R/C that replaced the X R/C, you just picked up an entire replacement parts set for the piston, sleeve, crank, wrist pin, connecting rod, head gasket, for your favorite 36X NB case. Also, I think I recall the 36 series back plate had less slop (case stuffer) so it's usable on an X and provides marginal case-stuffing gains compared to the stock X back plate.
This is NOT the case (pun!) on the Fox 36 C/L "Sport" engine: The case, thus crank, was shorter, so the crank will NOT fit a 36X NB.
Over the decades, for my nostalgia combat models, the 36X NB became my preferred engine on account of the crank issue vs a BB version. At the time I theorized that by using NB versions I could keep them alive longer on account of complete innards interchangeability with the 36 R/C. In actuality that proved to be over-thinking (I tend to do that) because I never flew my models enough to even START to wear out the innards!
Oddly, I've super enjoyed recalling, typing out, and sharing these past few posts.
All fer now.
Andre
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That engine, what I always called a "front loader", is well before my time at Fox, so I will have to differ to one more versed in that era.
However, I can always make up something, and it will probably sound good... but won't be very factual. ~>
Andre
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The basic case for the 'front loader' was an evolution of the original CS and 29x from 1957. Some of the later models had the 4 lugs on the front which, eventually, were used to hold on the nb housing of the FL or what I call the 1961CS. I am hoping to fly mine this Sunday in the LS Killer. Hope not to toss the shaft!! TS
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Well guys,
I couldnt be more happy with the way this turned out. CG looks to be good. I also can shorten the nose in the field with a quick cut if it doesnt turn like we want. Tomorrow it will go thru some thorough testing!
Everybody needs to fly it and then sign it!
Tom
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Y'all have a ton of fun!
Sharon and I will be leaving in the morn headed west, so I'll try to keep up with this thread via her laptop while on the road.
Andre Mingliani
(With you all in spirit)
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Hey All,
Another outstanding Vintage day! As usual the day just flew by.
Some quick results now and we'll get to some details as everyone recovers.
Two really impressive items were the performance of Will Demauro and Bob Hunts electric ships and Al Ferraro's speed run!
Bob's sweet sweep looks really cool in the air and performs really well.
Al decided to go early with his Super Satan and just sent us home with our tails between our legs. Al's time was a blistering 13.95 at 129mph!
Fox 36xbb
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In golf you have the honor of putting the green jacket on the winner. I dwarfed that honor with presenting Jim Vigani with the LS Blown Fox award.
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I was able to retain the speed stunt award (my wife calls it the "piston cup") with a 1:22:25. As I go thru the times I'll post top 5 in speed and stunt flights. All for now I'm beat!
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What a great day! One of the most enjoyable days of my life.
Congrats to Tom and Al for their respective wins in Speed Stunt and Top Speed. Thanks to them also for organizing this affair. I hope it goes on for many years. If you have never attended one of these Vintage Combat Festivals, I encourage you to do so next year; you will have a ball!
The weather was perfect, the fellowship was perfect, and the flying was pretty darn good too!
My thanks also go out to Will DeMauro, who helped me get the motor/battery/ESC, and timer installation right in the very tight nose of the Sweet Sweep. Thanks too to Keith Ferguson, who helped out with the pit duties for the day.
Additional thanks go out to the Garden State Circle Burners club for their gracious hosting of the event.
What can I say, this was about as enjoyable a day as I can remember...
Later - Bob Hunt
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If only it wasn't so far or I wasn't so old. Love the faired in Sweet Sweep. Makes mine look like a pig. D>K
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Again what a awesome day! We had 21 participants. Not all participated in our events. There were numerous sport flights and some fast matches with modern equipment on the back circle. I myself was plagued (1 complete flight all day)with bad engine runs and a blown head gasket on my Johnson CS powered Hatchet. more on our trials and tribulations on future posts...……
Here are all the scoreable flights;
LS Speed Challenge
1. Al Ferraro Super Satan 36xBB 13.95
2. Roy Glenn Super Satan 36x BB LS1 15.35
3. Tom Schaefer Voodoo 36x BB 15.84
4. Tom Schaefer WOW Fox Rocket 40 17.8
5. Jim Vigani Lancer Fox 36X NB 18.65
6. Tom Schaefer Killer 61 Fox CS 18.90
7. Tom Schaefer Up N AT'M 1957 Fox CS 19.27
8. Larry Wilks VooDoo Super Tigte G21-.35 20.1
9. Bob Hunt Sweet Sweep Power 10* 20.52
10. Jim Vigani ABLE Fox .36x NB 20.6
Speed Stunt
1. Tom Luciano Super Satan 1:22.25
2. Dan Banjock SpeedLimit* 1:33.65
3. Jim Vigani Double Diamond 1:37.21
4. Tom Schaefer UP N AT'M 1:41.27
5. Al Ferraro Super Swoop 1:42.06
6. Bob Hunt Sweet Sweep 1:43.60
7. Tom Schaefer Killer 1:43.65
8. Sean Cook Thor 2:14.74
A good percentage of the guys had multiple flights on the same airplane. I'm only posting their best.
Tom
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Al's winning flight
https://youtu.be/wWeE-RRyswo
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Roy Glenn with the Super Satan at 117mph
https://youtu.be/dyW1H-VaY0Y
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Bob Hunt with the electric Sweet Sweep
https://youtu.be/h9D9p58p_FQ
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l's live stream from the event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFxvw0s7Ytw
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Again what a awesome day! We had 21 participants. Not all participated in our events. There were numerous sport flights and some fast matches with modern equipment on the back circle. I myself was plagued (1 complete flight all day)with bad engine runs and a blown head gasket on my Johnson CS powered Hatchet. more on our trials and tribulations on future posts...……
Here are all the scoreable flights;
LS Speed Challenge
1. Al Ferraro Super Satan 36xBB 13.95
2. Roy Glenn Super Satan 36x BB LS1 15.35
3. Tom Schaefer Voodoo 36x BB 15.84
4. Tom Schaefer WOW Fox Rocket 40 17.8
5. Jim Vigani Lancer Fox 36X NB 18.65
6. Tom Schaefer Killer 61 Fox CS 18.90
7. Tom Schaefer Up N AT'M 1957 Fox CS 19.27
8. Larry Wilks VooDoo Super Tigte G21-.35 20.1
9. Bob Hunt Sweet Sweep Power 10* 20.52
10. Jim Vigani ABLE Fox .36x NB 20.6
Speed Stunt
1. Tom Luciano Super Satan 1:22.25
2. Dan Banjock SpeedLimit* 1:33.65
3. Jim Vigani Double Diamond 1:37.21
4. Tom Schaefer UP N AT'M 1:41.27
5. Al Ferraro Super Swoop 1:42.06
6. Bob Hunt Sweet Sweep 1:43.60
7. Tom Schaefer Killer 1:43.65
8. Sean Cook Thor 2:14.74
A good percentage of the guys had multiple flights on the same airplane. I'm only posting their best.
Tom
I know that Sean had a new engine and wasn't going to push it
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Well done, all.
Thanks for the pics and the videos.
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I know that Sean had a new engine and wasn't going to push it
Yes, Sean's flight was more of a cruise and more methodical pattern. He wanted the watch on. The Thor looked great!
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Tom, we both had a great time. Unfortunately due to the ride, we had to leave earlier than we wanted to. Dennis, I can't thank you enough for your generosity for providing that engine and kit. Walter's kits are just over the top and just owning them is monumental for myself. This comes once a year and as much as I would've liked to do much more, both of us had a great day out as Bob Hunt also experienced. The temp was pleasurable and the day was just too short. Even though the plane was a bit tip low, it flew above my expectations. This kit demonstrates simplicity, it's very rewarding to go from a box of sheets and sticks to flying. Even watching the video, it just makes one smile. Ken
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Ken,
So glad you guys made it out with your busy schedules. When I arrived and didn't see your car , I was worried you couldn't make it! The event wouldn't be the same without you guys. My recollections are you been there every year since the first. I plan on working out the kinks on the LA 25 VooDoo in the year to come and will definitely have a bunch ready for combat next year. They go together pretty fast now that i got all the parts figured out.
your fast match with Shawn was great to watch! Glad you guys convinced Banjock to come, he's hooked on speed stunt. I think I heard him say he has a nemesis kit and will be practicing for next year!
Check out this awesome picture of you launching Larry's VooDoo. This will make the highlight reel!
Tom
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Tom, Thanks for picking up the ball and putting even more fun into an already great happening! I had a blast (Oooo) flying as many of my planes as possible. Not all of them met expectations but the ones that did were memorable! It will keep me thinking of a new secret weapon all winter ;D TS
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Al throwing his hat in the ring in speed stunt! Now you're talking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW4CABNdCwI
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Al, best hourglass you ever did. Awesome!!!!!!
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Wow!
Great coverage! Love the photos and videos!
21 participants? That's GREAT!
Looks like the GSCB Combat Festival is on the upswing again!
Wife and I just returned from a trip to the Rocky Mountains. During the trip, imagine my surprise, as Sharon and I talked about the GSCB Combat Festival... Sharon made the comment that she would love to go again and this time spend the day at the field watching the magnificent East Coast Crazies flying their magnificent flying machines! Of course, if we seriously entertain this idea, a group supper would HAVE to be part of the deal!
Hmmm.....
y1
Andre
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MM,
Rules are above in the thread.
Best,
Tom
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Andre,
Love to see you make another trip out .
Theres some chatter on FB control line flying group too.
Best Tom
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I did a careful analysis of the speed of the winner, using the excellent video. I mean that I even checked the angle of the lines from the horizon, used a stopwatch, etc. Got exactly the same speed. Breaking 14 seconds is an accomplishment. I think the best I ever went was 14.2, back in the day.
This suggests that folks interested in this event could submit their entries via video. Sort of an online version of the contest.
Putting an old combat ship back in the air might be a fun project. Need to order some bladder tubing from Phil Cartier, as I know he has a lot of it.
Peter
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MM,
have at it with any prop you want. Engine and plane have to be of proper vintage. Speed runs have been done with .015 stranded. As discussed last year they meet the speed requirements to at least 130mph with a combat plane of the era. If anybody wants to take a look just look at last years thread. Now if Al cracks 130, we'll talk. I beleive my calculations came in at 28 lbs at 130..
Just an FYI for anyone who might want to debate line requirements. Please don't in this thread. You're welcome to open your own. This is a very enjoyable event and thread and I would appreciate no negativity.
Thanks,
Tom
Motorman get that "Rock" ready for next year thats what this is about. Al is already working on his design from when he was 14 years old for next year!
Peter,
Thats really cool that you were able to verify Al's run. He made that run in the first 30 minutes of the event! Completly deflated me for even trying! I told Al he cant go until the end of the day so i feel like i have a chance! Lol
We'll talk in Lorton this weekend
Tom
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I think it's horrible you guys are mocking and destroying Fox motors, they're really good, I never had any problem with them.
Brett
Not as long as they are being used to Hurl
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Winning Stunt flight. I didn't tighten the collet on the needle valve and it gradually went richer as the flight progressed. Oh well, there is room for improvement. I have a funny feeling 1:22 will be shattered next year!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OgKsdb3gYc
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Thanks to all posters, this thread has given me more pleasure than I've had a a long while! Takes me back to my 36XBB days and my Bully that looked mostly like a Voo-Doo.
There is NO WAY I could even fly one of these level any more!! H^^
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Winning Stunt flight. I didn't tighten the collet on the needle valve and it gradually went richer as the flight progressed. Oh well, there is room for improvement. I have a funny feeling 1:22 will be shattered next year!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OgKsdb3gYc
Tom:
Good chance it'll be you.
I think you lost between 1 1/2 and 2 seconds, at a minimum, from it going rich 2/3 way through.
Frank
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Thanks Tom for the great videos and the effort you put into this event that people all over the world are enjoying. The facebook live video has over 1300 views and climbing. Your Stunt Speed run was awesome!!! I was also happy to provide entertainment for everyone with my Stunt Speed run using the Super Swoop. When I went inverted the Super Swoop got ahead of me and I lost it in the sun. I was lucky to catch up with it and bring it back upright, but had to go back inverted to complete the loops. The Super Swoop really was going a lot faster than I wanted for that event, but there's no turning back once its set free. I also wanted to note that I scrambled my glow plug on the Super Satan speed run :-[ For next years event I'm remaking my SLASHER it's my combat model that I designed and flew in contests when I was 14.
Now for the bad news. I know you said not to post anything negative on this thread, BUT I heard there is a protest for the Blow Fox engine award. Rumor has it that an electric motor should have won that award and it will be stripped from Jim V on bases of equality and political correctness. Now mind you this is all hearsay, but I heard the speaker of the house is going to make a statement about it in the near future.
Al
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Hi Al:
Congrats on your amazing Speed event win. It was truly awesome.
Thanks for offering to embrace the outlaw electric contingent by shifting the blown engine/motor award from Jim Vigani to my friend, Will DeMauro. Very nice gesture, but one that is misplaced a bit. You see, Will did not "blow" a motor that day; he "fried" an ESC. Will did fry a motor on the Wednesday before the Festival, but that also doesn't count. So, Jim can rest assured that his well-earned win in the blown engine category (what a distinction...) is secure.
Ozonely yours, Bob Hunt
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Rest assured that I am NOT the one protesting, Jim earned his blown motor award fair and square. If someone is secretly protesting on my behalf, they need to drop the protest and accept the fact that Jim won. When I blow a motor it will be in the air at some insane speed and NOT due to a crash. I'm in the process of regrouping and planning ahead to next year. I'm looking at planes motors and props in an effort to make a good showing next year. The goal is to be extremely competitive.
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You mean electric whizzy-majig thingies???
Say it ain't so, oh SAY it ain't so!
LL~
Okay, Fox Faithful's... sounds to me like the gauntlet has been thrown to the ground! Get out your Dremels, index wheels... et al... and create a fire breathing X engine!!
As the intrepid Officer Fife would say: "We gotta' nip this thing in the bud!"
S?P
Andre
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You mean electric whizzy-majig thingies???
Say it ain't so, oh SAY it ain't so!
Andre
Andre,
They are here and not going anywhere, yes it is so!!!!! I am working on coming up with a competitive set up that will hold its own. I have some ideas and I'm on the right path. Whats more important is that this event continue to grow regardless of what is used to spin that prop! It's just a fun day. Hopefully you can make it next year and I'll finally get to meet you. I'll even let you try my "electric whizzy-majig thingies" if it give you some extra incentive to make the trip.
Will
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Since a Whistle blower filed a complaint, Mr. Ferraro's statement, and Mr. Hunts clarification…..
The following statement has been released
After hours and hours of deliberation..... The executive committee had to also go to the archives to produce proof to back up their findings.
VCF1.01-36x: There was a blown Fox in a practice session in preparation of the event back in 2015. This incident set a precedent as the Blown Fox award was presented by LS "Hisself" to an unidentified recipient at the VCF 2015. With these findings, practice sessions prior to the event are deemed "active" for the award. Not to show bias to any particular MFG. the blown Fox award will be now open to any engine competing in the event including practice sessions. This may also prompt a non "mfg" biased award. This is on the docket and still up for vote in the Dec. meeting.
After the "whistle blower" complaint and the release of article VCF1.01-36x the following has been amended to the bylaws;
VCF1.01-ELC. Any "electric drivetrain component" such as, but not limited to, Motors, ESC, Batteries, Timers, Wires, and Switches are eligible for the newly deemend "Let the smoke out" award. please see article VCF1.01-36x for eligibility criteria.
It appears that reigning advanced national stunt champion Will DeMauro smoked a motor in a practice session in preparation of VCF 2019. In doing so, retroactive immediately Will Demauro has earned the “Up in Smoke” award at the VCF 2019.
Also, in discovery photos, the 2015 recipient has been identified in picture 1A. Shown in 1B the evidence of destruction.
There will be a press release on the findings following Mr. Vigani's 36x's teardown.
Keeping things tidy
Blown Fox Award
2013 Al Ferraro
2014 Al Ferraro
2015 Tom Luciano
2016 Tom Luciano
2017 Tom Luciano
2018 Tom Luciano
2019 Jim Vigani
Let the Smoke Out Award
2019 Will DeMauro
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Just an add on. The VCF calendar is Oct. 1st to Sept. 30 the following year. So, beware of the company you keep. There is a whistleblower in/at every circle!
So let the practice sessions begin.
Good luck
Tom
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I love the bark of this 1957 Fox Combat Special! It has that Fox .59 sound. Tom S on a Speed Stunt run.
https://youtu.be/UEP7WwCrJ5U
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Due to a mishap Will D with his backup Flight Streak.
https://youtu.be/toldF13PZ2w
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Since a Whistle blower filed a complaint, Mr. Ferraro's statement, and Mr. Hunts clarification…..
The following statement has been released
After hours and hours of deliberation..... The executive committee had to also go to the archives to produce proof to back up their findings.
VCF1.01-36x: There was a blown Fox in a practice session in preparation of the event back in 2015. This incident set a precedent as the Blown Fox award was presented by LS "Hisself" to an unidentified recipient at the VCF 2015. With these findings, practice sessions prior to the event are deemed "active" for the award. Not to show bias to any particular MFG. the blown Fox award will be now open to any engine competing in the event including practice sessions. This may also prompt a non "mfg" biased award. This is on the docket and still up for vote in the Dec. meeting.
After the "whistle blower" complaint and the release of article VCF1.01-36x the following has been amended to the bylaws;
VCF1.01-ELC. Any "electric drivetrain component" such as, but not limited to, Motors, ESC, Batteries, Timers, Wires, and Switches are eligible for the newly deemend "Let the smoke out" award. please see article VCF1.01-36x for eligibility criteria.
It appears that reigning advanced national stunt champion Will DeMauro smoked a motor in a practice session in preparation of VCF 2019. In doing so, retroactive immediately Will Demauro has earned the “Up in Smoke” award at the VCF 2019.
Also, in discovery photos, the 2015 recipient has been identified in picture 1A. Shown in 1B the evidence of destruction.
There will be a press release on the findings following Mr. Vigani's 36x's teardown.
Keeping things tidy
Blown Fox Award
2013 Al Ferraro
2014 Al Ferraro
2015 Tom Luciano
2016 Tom Luciano
2017 Tom Luciano
2018 Tom Luciano
2019 Jim Vigani
Let the Smoke Out Award
2019 Will DeMauro
Dear Mr. Luciano:
Your solution to this issue is both elegant and sportsmanlike. Just for the record, I will attest to the fact that Mr. DeMauro did indeed smoke a motor in practice the week before the Festival. The said smoke emitted from his motor during a practice run through of the Speed Stunt schedule. He made it all the way (?) to the triangles, and then in the ensuing lap the motor made a most unusual noise (any noise from an electric is unusual...), and a cloud of smoke that was approximately 5 feet high and 40 feet long was emitted. It was quite spectacular, and also quite humorous (hey, it wasn't MY motor...).
As a brief aside, we electric fliers pride ourselves on not having to drive home from the field smelling burnt caster oil residue that is on the model. Will later confided in me that the smell of the burnt motor was much worse! Still not a factor that will cause either of us to switch back to glow.
Perhaps there should be at least an honorable mention attached to Will's "Let the smoke out" award that chronicles the fact that he also fried an ESC at the actual Festival. Not sure which occurrence should actually get the award in the first place; the blown motor or the fried ESC. If the criteria was how much money was lost in each instance, then it would cost certainly be awarded for the fried ESC; it cost much more than the motor...
Thank you for your attention to this matter, and for your thoughtful solution. You are a credit to the glow fraternity.
Respectfully - Bob "Lost in the Ozone" Hunt
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Must not overlook that the Sweep was the collaboration of two designers, Lester Grogan and Ken Hale.
dg
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Just an add on. The VCF calendar is Oct. 1st to Sept. 30 the following year.
So, VCF will be all year long?
Did you mean Sept 30- Oct 1, 2020?
Hm, me thinks it was a high level witticism that I'm wasn't smart enough to ascend thereto. %^@
Andre
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So, VCF will be all year long?
Did you mean Sept 30- Oct 1, 2020?
Hm, me thinks it was a high level witticism that I'm wasn't smart enough to ascend thereto. %^@
Andre
My apologies! I should have noted that this is eligibility requirements for the special awards. IE; Blown Fox, and Let the smoke out.
If you are setting your plane up for next years VCF 2020 . In a practice session on Oct. 1, 2019 and if the committee gets word of an incident, say from a whistleblower, you are eligible for the award.
Also, if there are no smoked motors or blown engines you must retain the trophy and polish it daily until someone claims it! Such as Al and myself.
Tom
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Ah HAH! NOW I've got it!
BTW: Is the VCF always the 3rd weekend in September?
Sharon and I have moved attending the VCF to the "Definite Maybe" list for 2020.
Andre
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Andre,
Good chance it will be but Hamp and Schaef have final word with our district coordinator.
Tom
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Hi Tom!
We're flexible.
Just mentally planning out ahead. (I have a tendency to do that!)
Last night we talked it over and decided to axe the trip out west for next year regardless of VCF, so there shouldn't be any event conflicts. Like I said, looks like it's solidly on the "Definite Maybe" list now.
We shall see!
Andre
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Dan Banjock on a test flight with the foamie VooDoo!
LA 25 for power
https://youtu.be/Vw9fm5eLBNI
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That flies pretty darn good.
Have you timed it? (If so, how close to 75 MPH?)
Also, are LA 25's still readily available (and parts)?
Andre
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Andre,
The Foamie VooDoo definitely shows promise! It's a bit fast but, not anything we can't work out. It hasn't had the stuff/Dork test yet but shows great promise for durability. Holding it in my hand it feels like I could also use it as a boogie board in the summer and a snow board in the winter. Think of the value in that!
There is a Combat meet at the end of the month and if all goes as planned I'll have 3 more of the prototypes ready for the guys to test out. Getting it in the hands of more seasoned Combat pilots in matches is the ultimate test.
RE: LA .25 You can still get major components for it at R/C Japan. I bought all the components less P/L but it takes a while to get them. One order sat in customs for 30+ days. I have Gardner P/L's for them. The one used in the video has the Gardner set up as well.
Best,
Tom
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Thanks Tom for the reply.
Like I said: Interesting.
Andre
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Ringmaster Days and Fun Fly at G.S.C.B. this weekend. Testing over grass welcome! At least one spare Ringmaster available for anyone to log a flight.
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Question:
Japanese Silk of the same weight we used "back in the day" is no longer available, right? I was thinking today's silk that's offered is heavier?
Andre
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Question:
Japanese Silk of the same weight we used "back in the day" is no longer available, right? I was thinking today's silk that's offered is heavier?
Andre
Andre,
By what Larry tells me, the original Sig was 4mm. My Blitz, I used 4.5mm and dyed it lemon yellow. Last years Super Satan I used 5mm and dyed it Golden yellow. These colors were exact matches to the old Sig. I found no difference in weight after finish between the two. My first Super Satan that Rusty now owns has 8mm pre colored. That was substantially heavier.
Tom
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http://lovasilk.com/guide-to-silk-bedding/momme-weight-explained/ (http://lovasilk.com/guide-to-silk-bedding/momme-weight-explained/)
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The 8mm would be about 13 grams heavier per yard over the 4mm, if I read that website right.
Al
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Jim V. on a speed stunt run with his original design Double Diamond. Fox 36xBB
https://youtu.be/TJKHb52_4VQ
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Looks like I did 2 laps between the reverse wingover and the inside loops. Things happen very fast in this event. Could have taken another couple seconds off my time. Next year!
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Ken and Shawn throwing up some modern fast planes on the back circle!
https://youtu.be/KA9cIC44UqE
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Here 'ya go. Straight off the jug.
Andre
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Recommended by FOX >:D y1
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Blast = 50% Nitro.
Blast was great stuff. I used the very last can of it in existence at Fox Mfg during the summer of 1970. (I would save it, and use it sparingly, for a timed run.)
Also in the early 1970s Fox Mfg released "Fox 40-40". I think I recall it was 40% nitro, 40% methanol, and 20% oil. It was "legal" for FAI as I recall. It was pretty darn good fuel. I burned a lot of 40-40 during that time.
However, my sentimental favorite is good old "Missile Mist". As a kid I loved the name, loved the purple can, loved the mysterious* purple color, and as I recall, Riley won a National using a Missile Mist powered 36XBB... that was good enough for me!
* That purple color: Upon hiring out at Fox, imagine my disappointment to learn that the purple color was nothing more than dark indigo dye, and had NOTHING to do with what surely must be "secret ingredients" as I supposed. In fact, it wasn't even added for "pizazz". Nope, it was added so it would be easy to tell it apart from Fox Superfuel there at the plant! FWIW: We used Missile Mist as run-in fuel in ALL engines, even Stunt 35's!
A "Blast" legend.
(Disclaimer: This alleged incident was NOT told to me by Duke.)
When Duke introduced "Blast" (early 1960s, I think?), his combat series of engines were about the only engines capable of using it without undue wear/damage. Story goes that the Fox rep at the time went about the combat practice circles at a particular National, offering free (1/2 pint?) sample cans of "Blast". Yup, it was a "Blast" alright... several of the chaps blew rods and even cases in their Torps, Johnson's, etc. That's one way to tilt the odds of getting a Fox powered winner! If I'm not mistaken, this alleged incident was the origin of Larry Scrarinzi's "Blast Trophy" that he presented to Duke that contained one of his blown engine's (Torp? can't remember) on a pedestal along with parts glued to the trophy base. There was also a lop-sided wood propeller mounted on the blown engine with the hand-written tag "Genuine Bill James balanced prop." The "Blast Trophy" sat proudly in the front office on one of the award shelves for the entire time I was associated with Fox Mfg. It disappeared sometime during the mid-90s or so.
Andre
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* That purple color: Upon hiring out at Fox, imagine my disappointment to learn that the purple color was nothing more than dark indigo dye, and had NOTHING to do with what surely must be "secret ingredients" as I supposed. In fact, it wasn't even added for "pizazz". Nope, it was added so it would be easy to tell it apart from Fox Superfuel there at the plant! FWIW: We used Missile Mist as run-in fuel in ALL engines, even Stunt 35's!
Andre
Hi Andre,
I'm not surprised that you used Missile Mist as break in fuel. I had a couple of tight engines that would sag and lose RPM during break in. I tried Missile Mist and then the engine would run ok. I thought it had something to due with the purple dye acting like a friction reducer, because the piston and inside the case (and everything else it touched) would be coated purple from using the fuel .
Al
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Nope. Nothing special about the purple... simply dye. The purple look you witnesses was likely just residue.
Missile Mist received a lot of bad-mouthing because of it having only 18% castor (as I recall)... but it really was good fuel. Duke DID use very high quality products in his fuel. I don't recall a failure using it.
On a sad note: I ended up with a nearly PERFECT empty gallon can of Missile Mist. (My last gallon that I burned decades ago.) Kept that can for a long time. When we moved here I stored it up in the attic. Many years ago I was up in the attic and noticed the heat/cold had caused it to implode. I was SO sick upon seeing that. :'( (And mad at myself! '' ) No way to reasonably replace it. Had it dawned on me that it would do that, all I would have needed to do to prevent it was uncap it and lay the cap on the top of the can. So stupid.
All fer now.
Andre
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I still have a old quart bottle with the formula ;D
Al
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I also still have a pint of the original purple brew y1
Al
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My favorite fuel cans >:D
Al
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Al:
You're breaking my heart with those cans. I had those, too. (And a really old Missile Mist pint.) Still have the Blast can... but you read the sad story about my gallon MM can. The purple gallon can was my favorite of all.
I also have a bit less than 1/2 gallon of MM left in the plastic jug. Haven't a clue if it's still usable. (The jugs sometimes deteriorated.)
Andre
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Old fuel is most often good. The alcohol does evaporate, a bit, making the nitro and oil content higher.
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Peter:
Your sentiment echoes Duke's about older fuel. He always said it was better fuel after it sat a while.
I've used fuel that's decades old and still seems to perform fine.
Andre
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motorman,
I don't have a set to let go but there's a clean 36x on ebay for .99 cents right now.
Tom
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It's funny what people want and when.....Ward had about a half dozen empty, but never filled, FOX fuel cans, including Missile Mist. I put them on the board for, like, $5.00. No takers.
Gave two to a couple RC guys and pitched the rest....
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How long ago was that Peabody?
I absolutely do not recall seeing them here. I never check the "for sale" board, though, so if you didn't mention it here or at the Combat forum... it would have slipped by me. I would have purchased one. Oh well!
Andre
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Andre
About 15 months ago
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Well darn.
Good price. Would have been a no-brainer for me.
Andre
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Just an FYI, I'm already working on next years stuff! If interested, I started a foam VooDoo build thread in the Combat section. Cores are supplied by The Corehouse.
Tom