S1 Ringmaster power ?

[Allan Perret]

Possible to build an S1 light enough that a good .15 motor would be enough power ?   Building Pat Johnston's +P version which has a fatter airfoil than original S1 design.. 

[Dane Martin]

Here's one of my RM+p by Pat Johnston. It's powered by an OS 26 four stroke and tips the scales at 26oz ready to fly.
Kristina has a purple one with an OS 20 FS that's 25oz.

I do have one with an OS 15 FP that's about 21 oz (I think)

David Gressens has one that weighs 19oz!

[Brett Buck]

Possible to build an S1 light enough that a good .15 motor would be enough power ?   Building Pat Johnston's +P version which has a fatter airfoil than original S1 design.. 

   Yes, my preferred engine for any weight S1 Ringmaster would probably be a 15FP.   Pat's is not an S1, so it might be a different animal.


    Brett

[Larry Fernandez]

Yes Allen it can be done.
I built a Ringmaster a few years back that weigh 19.7 oz.
I used a one piece leading edge that was routed out much like a Flite Streak. Using a one piece leading edge and spar negated the use of a heavy plywood doublers.
The fuse was very light 3/8 balsa (thank you Elliott) cut out and sheeted with 1/16 very light balsa.
the kit uses 1/8 ply for the nose doubler, which was necessary for the shaker motors of the time. Since the FP .15 is a VERY smooth running motor. I went with 1/32 ply doublers.
I knew that the plane would be very light, so I used smaller diameter landing gear and a pair of very light wheels
The wood through out was very light, as the build was to prove the a Ringmaster could in fact be flown with an FP .15.
The wings were covered in dyed medium silkspan and the fuse and tail feathers were prepped, finish and painted with dope 
I flew it on .012 x58' lines with the FP spinning an APC 8x4 prop.

So.........
how good did it fly?
Uncle Jimby borrowed it to fly in old time at the Golden State Stunt Championships and won. Of course beating me in the process (this is why I don't let others borrow my planes at contests anymore. Its VERY embarrassing to get beat by someone who is flying your plane)

Bottom line, the plane flew GREAT. until the wind came up. Then it wasn't very much fun to fly.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Motorman]

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[badbill]

I like my Ringmasters heavy with obscene power to drag them through the pattern.


MM

Funny you should say that. I have a Brodak new version ARF with about a gazzilion flights on it. Started with an LA .25, it was ok but gutless. Went to a Fox .35, and it was OK. Finally put a LA .40 on it with an inboard 4oz clunk tank and it is AWESOME. Flew it about ten times today. Nimble and just plain fun on .015x60' lines. 10 mph wind is NO problem.

[Randy Cuberly]

I've built and flown many Ringmasters since 1952 (the first one).  It had a Forester 35 and it taught me how to fly!  Built at least six of them for Combat in the middle 1950's and used mostly Veco 35's and severa K&B Green Head 35's.

Most recently I built two using very light wood for Old Time Stunt and used LA25's for power.  The airplanes ready to fly weighed 17 and 18 oz.

They both flew very well on 10-3 APC Props launching at 10,500 RPM.

Lap times on 60 ft lines (center to center) were 5.0 seconds.

I believe it to be a perfect combination for OT Stunt or as a stunt trainer for the modern pattern.

I used 3 inch bellcranks and very long control horns for slow controls.

Randy Cuberly

[Dennis Moritz]

We fly Ringmasters with Fox 35s. I know. Some will get twisted about this. Countless times these Ringers have won Old Time in local contests and Brodak. Danny had scored as high as 2nd in classic in major events. The winningest Ringmaster of all time was Fox 35 power. I've a picture somewhere. Trophy finishs were written in marker on the multi patched wings. Covered tops of both wings. Crashed and fixed, crashed and fixed. A socialist communal bird. Many folks in the club flew it. Started out light. Was built light. Weighed in at 25 ounces or so new. Wound up weighing in the mid 30s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Russell Shaffer]

That is very nice work, Dane.  SLC covering?  The top one is the only one I can be sure is covered and not in bones.

[Steve Helmick]

Emil Kovak built and flew a bunch of S-1 Ringmasters with various OS FP series engines. The .15FP one(s) weighed 16 ounces, and he built and flew others with more power at heavier weights... .25FP for sure, maybe .20FP, but I'm not sure on that.

The 16 oz./.15FP planes were reported to be awesome in light winds, but suffered badly in typical contest conditions. The heavier ones with more power worked better in "average" conditions. I can't recall for sure what the weights were for those; maybe 20 oz. Dave Gardner or Dirty Dan might recall.  Steve

[Larry Fernandez]

Funny you should say that. I have a Brodak new version ARF with about a gazzilion flights on it. Started with an LA .25, it was ok but gutless. Went to a Fox .35, and it was OK. Finally put a LA .40 on it with an inboard 4oz clunk tank and it is AWESOME. Flew it about ten times today. Nimble and just plain fun on .015x60' lines. 10 mph wind is NO problem.

I'm curious Bill, Where was the CG when the plane was set up with the 40 LA?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Dane Martin]

That is very nice work, Dane.  SLC covering?  The top one is the only one I can be sure is covered and not in bones.

Thanks Russ,
Those are all finished pics. Just clear monokote. Didn't have any SLC at the time. Monokote strips to outline the big parts and shapes. Then clear everything else

[Brett Buck]

So.........
how good did it fly?
Uncle Jimby borrowed it to fly in old time at the Golden State Stunt Championships and won. Of course beating me in the process (this is why I don't let others borrow my planes at contests anymore. Its VERY embarrassing to get beat by someone who is flying your plane)

Bottom line, the plane flew GREAT. until the wind came up. Then it wasn't very much fun to fly.

  Then we should add a bunch of ballast to it. The one David and I flew (and kicked off my experiments back in the early/mid 90's) flew very well by Ringmaster standards with a 15FP, but it was not ultra-light, in fact, it was a kit and had a full opaque finish. We didn't weigh it but I would guess in the low 30 ounce range at best. It had no problems in any air you would want to fly any Ringmaster in (5-10).

   Brett

[Jim Hoffman]

My Ringmaster weighs about 26 oz.
Flies great on .012 x 54’ lines, OS 25 LA power, 9-4 APC prop.  
The Brodak BH 623 Fuel Tank (uniflo 2 oz.) has been a good combo for the OS LA 25.

I choose not to go ULTRA light and mine will fly very well in the breeze.  
I STRONGLY recommend that the stock boat anchor muffler be used with the OS motor.  I tried many combinations w/ light weight tongue mufflers and was never pleased with the motor run.
I STRONGLY recommend the Eric Rule RSM wing.  The leading edge construction technique is clever and effective.   I recall he sells it as a wing kit or part of the full S-1 RM kit.

Jim Hoffman

[badbill]

I'm curious Bill, Where was the CG when the plane was set up with the 40 LA?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

No idea, I never checked it.. it's hanging in the other room, guess I could sometime. I'm pretty sure it's behind the leading edge though 😜🤡