stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Randy Powell on April 19, 2016, 03:25:00 PM
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"With your assistance the Senate incorporated many of our suggestions into the FAA reauthorization bill, but today we learned that the Senate did not pass all of our amendments. One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards. The new legislation also potentially jeopardizes hundreds of flying sites within five miles of an airport. While this is disappointing, we still have other opportunities to shape the final legislation. We ask our members to continue to regularly monitor your email, our website, and the AMA blogs because we may need your help again in the near future. Learn more about the bill be clicking the link below."
Well, that one provision in bold would pretty much destroy any chance of "modeling".
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"One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards."
What the Hell does that even mean?
Makes me want to vomit and was so unnecessary.
Mike
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"One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards."
What the Hell does that even mean?
Makes me want to vomit and was so unnecessary.
Mike
It means that the FAA is going to learn what the word "unenforceable" means.
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I hope AMA understands they will *almost certainly* have to litigate to get relief from the way things are going. It seems the Inhofe amendment was never even considered.
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It means that the FAA is going to learn what the word "unenforceable" means.
My worry is that they will be able to enforce it at the Nats and Team Trials.
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And what if we just use an obscene gesture and go about out business? Jail? Guantanamo? Or as Tim says, they learn the meaning of the term "unenforceable"?
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And what if we just use an obscene gesture and go about out business? Jail? Guantanamo? Or as Tim says, they learn the meaning of the term "unenforceable"?
Sounds great but what if AMA says "sorry guys but we just can't have a C/L Nats because you guys built your own planes".
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"One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards."
What the Hell does that even mean?
Makes me want to vomit and was so unnecessary.
Mike
Mike, I think it means I'll be standing there with my middle finger high in the air.......And I'll continue to build whatever the hell I want to. ;D
Jerry
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I'm an FAA licensed A&P and I'll sign off on your Ringmaster inspection.
MM
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"One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards."
What the Hell does that even mean?
Makes me want to vomit and was so unnecessary.
Mike
D>K H^^
This is an example of BIG GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS, who are oblivious of what our hobbies, both R/C and C/L are about.........making ironfisted regulations which strangle our hobby activities......for the safty of the public traveling by air. Sorry gang, as long as people like this have UNREGULATED CONTROL OF WRITING AND ENFORCING THESE REGULATIONS, we are simply victims of the famous "red tape" of government bureauracy controlled by unqualified civil servants. BUT, if you think this is bad, you had better start looking at all the other restrictions and controls being shoehorned into your life.....get concerned....get informed.....get active....berfore it's too late. A good place to start is this website: http://www.conventionofstates.com/
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I'm gonna bet that the FAA has NO design and production standards for C/L planes, or tetherballs, or kites.
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I've never been ramp checked in a general aviation airplane except when flying a B-25 at an airshow and when racing at Reno and that was just policy of the shows to show airworthiness certs and insurance proof of insurance. Even tech inspections during the race were class reps because the FAA knows they do it best (excepting the 2011 P-51 crash which never would've happened in my day). Never when flying freight, or people in any GA airplane was I approached randomly by an FAA inspector and ramp checked. Only when operating in a 121 air carrier have I ever been ramped or flight inspected and that is the norm, periodic random FAA checks.
In the case of flying models at a flying field if people get ramp checked those doing so will do it once and forget about it because they have more important things to do in their job. For building one off model airplanes as a hobbyist this will be a non-event. These rules and regs will be written and applied to production and commercial operation and as time goes by the rules will be "interpreted" to mean all UAS's except the regular model airplanes which they won't even address. Top Flite Mustang kits and Randy's SV's will continue to be constructed by modelers and flown by modelers as is done at present.
It it isn't a gyro stabilized quad or single rotor vehicle with cameras and the ability to be flown out of sight with FPV, no one in the FAA is going to care about us.
Chris...
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“One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards.”
AMA has embraced multicopters for profit. Compared to millions of bought toy “drones”, relatively few are crafted by a “builder”. This provision gives definition and meaning to the ACADEMY OF MULTIROTORS & ARFs. I Repeat again, multirotor toys are NOT Model Airplanes.
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At my age, I really don't give a rat's ass what the FAA regulations say. They can slam me into the brig and take care of me for the rest of my life. What I don't want to do is get us booted from our current club flying site, which is the relatively vacant South Ramp at a Municipal Airport. I haven't registered yet, and don't plan to. na# Steve
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Here is a link to AMA words:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx
It also says:
"And finally, the bill creates an unnecessary and unsubstantiated requirement for AMA members ages 13 and above to take an online FAA safety test and carry proof of passing the test when flying."
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Just wait till they start to dictate to kit manufactures on how to make kits.
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Here is the critical paragraph:
One of the provisions would require all UAS, including model aircraft, to meet new FAA design and production standards and impose unnecessary regulation on hobbyists who often build their own models at home. This legislation also puts new requirements on model aircraft operations within 5 miles of airports, potentially jeopardizing hundreds of existing flying sites that have operated safely and harmoniously within our communities for decades. And finally, the bill creates an unnecessary and unsubstantiated requirement for AMA members ages 13 and above to take an online FAA safety test and carry proof of passing the test when flying.
Now here is the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution. By "United States", it means the federal government:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Wake up folks. Remember this in November-
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Does AMA know what if any anti model aviation language is in the House version of the bill, HR 4441?
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The only time my plane was inspected at the airport was when I landed at Weaverville, a tiny little airstrip in no. CA. I was confronted by two official-looking cops who searched the plane, inside and out. After they were finished, they admitted they were looking for smuggled marijuana. (I was fresh out)
Floyd
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The only time my plane was inspected at the airport was when I landed at Weaverville, a tiny little airstrip in no. CA. I was confronted by two official-looking cops who searched the plane, inside and out. After they were finished, they admitted they were looking for smuggled marijuana. (I was fresh out)
Floyd
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Good one Floyd! I'm going to tell them that my CL ship is for smuggling........LOL! LL~ LL~ LL~
Jerry
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I'm an FAA licensed A&P and I'll sign off on your Ringmaster inspection.
MM
Ha!
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Ha!
What about my other planes? ???
Jerry
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FUBAR!
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I'm an FAA licensed A&P and I'll sign off on your Ringmaster inspection.
MM
I'm an IA Motorman and "I'll seconded that sign-off." H^^
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And I will say my piece AGAIN for both the ridiculous folks at FAA and the slightly less ridiculous folks at the AMA.
All they needed to do in the first place is register the FPV equipment at point of sale.
That's it! That's all!
If an FPV rig winds up on a motor glider, then so be it, but that aerial vehicle has the capability of doing harm, and being used as an offensive weapon. Same as a FPV quad.
Line of sight models really don't pose a threat to the NAS the way FPV models do.
And CONTROL LINE MODELS DON'T POSE ANY THREAT!!!!!
Whiskey Tango Fox-Trot, OVER!
This government is out of control, and the MEDIA is NOT helping.
Where is the common sense???????
R,
Chris
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I'm just going to keep building my SV's, Thundergazers and any other modern stunted and not worry about this. This is completely unenforceable and I have no idea how they are gonna get control of this.
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I'm just going to keep building my SV's, Thundergazers and any other modern stunted and not worry about this. This is completely unenforceable and I have no idea how they are gonna get control of this.
You might want to re-think that attitude. You are working hard to get your licenses and ratings and dont want to find yourself with the FAA breathing down your neck over a stunt plan or an RC plane. Get informed and know the rules before you move ahead. My friend at the LHS is weary of flying anything within the 5 mile radius because of fear of losing his real pilots license due to FAA BS over their rules.
On a completely different note, who would have thought BOM would have been brought down by the gov?
FPV is the culprit here, AMA is the enabler. For many years I have come on this board and defended the AMA when many of you were bashing on them for this and that. No more, the AMA sucks. They put themselves in a weak position and the FAA doesnt give a rip about what they say.
The FAA doesnt give a rip about what anyone says. They are an UN-elected agency. They make rules not laws but rules and they enforce them as they see fit under protection of the federal gov. The agencies are the 4th branch of gov where all the "real" work gets done. The 4th branch answers to whatever current admin is running the show, the people be damned. And the AMA and our little hobby, all of rc included have no effect.
Steve F said "Who would have thought model airplanes would have been banned before guns?" What the hell is going on around here??
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You might want to re-think that attitude. You are working hard to get your licenses and ratings and dont want to find yourself with the FAA breathing down your neck over a stunt plan or an RC plane. Get informed and know the rules before you move ahead.
Exactly what I was going to say. You can't risk real repercussions from breaking a law or FAA regulation, even if the law is stupid.
Brett
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I have said this before, but this is NOT "rulemaking" by some Federal Agency. It is a Senate bill, a proposed law, re-authorizing the FAA and delineating its powers. The bill was written by someone, or more precisely by the campaign contributor/lobbyists favored by the author of the bill. SOMEONE wrote the language we are objecting to. I have not yet heard what senator that is, or who the co-sponsors of the bill are, but those are the people to pressure. And I presume the AMA is doing exactly that, but I still want to know what senator(s) wrote this or are sponsoring the anti-modeling provisions. These things don't materialize out of thin air but are the result of demands by some constituent or industry group. We can't effectively fight this without knowing who precisely the enemy is.
Anyone on here know the answer? Or have a contact person at the AMA who would know the answer?
Railing about Big Gummint is NOT going to protect us. Only organized resistance has any chance. This is serious stuff especially for competitors. If this becomes law the FAA could shut down the entire NATS and any contest in the country simply by showing up and demanding certificates of compliance. The AMA would have to obey the law and would be unable to refuse to cooperate with the FAA, who could show up with Federal marshalls to carry out the law. We need 200,000 AMA members to get on the phone to the sponsor of the bill, and the equivalent bill presumably working its way through the House as noted above.
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Yes, conform but don't stop doing what you're doing. I even have had little stickers made up for applying to my models the cute little BS, er... uh, UAS code the FAA sent me, under the stab (where we used to apply the N numbers on Warbirds until dictated to move them forward of the stab leading edge). Little things, but within the regs and keeping one's certificates safe while still enjoying our hobby is the way to go. I haven't put any on my C/L models yet...
Chris...
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Has AMA ever managed to absolutely determine if control line jobs were defined as UAS yet?
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It would appear we have Mr Thune, and Mr Nelson to thank for the latest iteration of the fun and games in the latest proposal, according to the links below. (and AMA's greed, and Amazon's aggressive vaporware marketing of delivery drones, and the media... call it a "perfect storm") Both links well worth reading, though the bill itself feels almost as lengthy as the AHCA document after the first few dozen pages, and well before you hit page 359!!! Auughhh!
And of course it is going to pass, come heck or high water, because of all the funding and pork type ear marks tied to the bill. Our concerns are going to be WAAAAAY down the list, compared to people getting $$$ for pet projects. The lobbyists will see to that.
http://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=how-we-plan-to
http://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/ce2245b6-a6f7-4d33-a878-a617f1069328/7CDA27E7239C63BF8C84463F5B317A4F.faa-bill-text---4.4.16.pdf
EricV
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Has AMA ever managed to absolutely determine if control line jobs were defined as UAS yet?
Good question Steve. I have not seen anything definitive on it either. This whole issue could have been avoided if AMA would have handled it right. The whole thing is just sad.
Mike
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If I only flew control line, I would not even join the AMA. Let the multi rotor guys support them. Let them see who has THEIR back. But, I fly r/c as well as c/l, so this year I got a one year license, not a two year renewal as I normally do.
It may be time to find a less regulated hobby, like shooting guns.
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It's all about power and budgets. Our country as well as many others are stifled by rules generated in the millions by GS worker-bees that need more rule making to protect their otherwise useless government jobs. The size and scope of government needs to shrink, and many agencies completely eliminated. Instead funding is nearly automatic with growth built in. For every 4 people of working age, 2 work, 1 is unemployed, and one works for the government.
In full disclosure, I had a work/study position with the EPA back in my college years. I worked in the water survey group, and we had a fleet of small boats. On day I noticed they were all being hauled away, but the next day a new fleet replaced them. When I asked about it, it was explained that this was done each year even though some of the boats had never been used. It was to protect the budget, "because if we use less money, we will get less money".
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For all you that dell for this government scam to put more money into the politicians pocket, I feel for you. Are the so called brilliant experts at the FAA ready to provide cells for all the modelers that did not sign up for this crap they are putting out. Multi rotors are model planes I a sense of the word. Look it up in Webster Dictionary what is a definition of a model airplane. Most of our planes don't even resemble a real airplane, unless you build and fly scale models. I have not signed up and will not sign up as I know a lot of people who fly models and don't even know about what used to be the Academy o Model Aeronautics. They have become an organization that worries about how much money they can put in their pockets like the government. So if have register to compete with the FAA, I will not be competing anymore and will fly until I'm told to quit. Only reason I have an AMA license is park rules and competition. Haven't heard from Brodaks, but if required FAA sign up, I will be a spectator. Same with all our local contests. VD~ H^^
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In full disclosure, I had a work/study position with the EPA back in my college years. I worked in the water survey group, and we had a fleet of small boats. On day I noticed they were all being hauled away, but the next day a new fleet replaced them. When I asked about it, it was explained that this was done each year even though some of the boats had never been used. It was to protect the budget, "because if we use less money, we will get less money".
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While I do agree with you in principle may I also point out .... because of the "waste of money", as some would term it, look at the literally thousands of jobs it creates in the private sector just to fill the contract for the those boats. That contract probably caused the boat builder to buy new equipment, hire designers, builders, admin staff, order raw materials and maybe even contract with other companies to build new manufacturing space who in turn had to order raw materials and products from other suppliers who also probably bought new equipment, hired designers, builders, admin staff and depending, may have contracted with other companies to build new manufacturing space and on and on. Not to mention the secondary businesses such as the myriad restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, gas stations, home and apartment builders, even down to doctor and lawyers offices that were able to be created and survive because of the employment generated by the primary and secondary contractors.
I write of this because of having worked for Bethleham Steel Shipyard in Baltimore. There were literally thousands of very good paying jobs created because of the industrial and supporting capacities that have all collapsed or moved/relocated overseas. I say that because cargo ships of all types are still being built, somewhere, with billions of tons of goods still being transported to these shores for sale but we, the nation, don't build or benefit from the building of those ships. In this one specific industry, unfortunately, our Merchant Marine industry is virtually disappearing. According to: Subcommittee on Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Hearing on “The Status of the Merchant Marine” dated September 10, 2014, over the last 35 years, the number of U.S. flagged vessels sailing in the international trade has dropped from 850 to less than 90. Less than two percent of the world’s tonnage now moves on U.S. flagged vessels. In the same period, we have lost over 300 shipyards and thousands of jobs for American mariners. For the sake of our national and economic security, we need to reverse this trend." I believe the same applies to the textile industries, the steel industries, appliance, and now electronics manufacturing / assembly industries and so forth .... good, steady, training, skill building, career and family supporting, community building jobs and salaries gone!!
Yes, American labor is expensive so is living in America! When one earns a good salary, one spends it in their local and regional communities and the companies they support spend for their own growth in the local and regional communities. BUT .... cut that persons/employees salary and he or she subsequently cuts his or her spending and the supporting companies then reduce or cut their ordering, manufacturing and spending, resulting in reductions to their employees who then tighten or cut their spending and so on and so on!! It's a crazy, globally, interdependent circle of life / survival but it seems like if one cuts out any one portion (i.e. "wasteful" government spending, primary contractors, workers, gas stations, even to the bottom rung .... lawyers, etceteras) and the whole thing (the economics of society) deteriorates or at worse catastrophically collapses!! R%%%% LL~ LL~
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Doc, I think you are missing the bigger picture here. This has gone way beyond mere registration. That was cake.
We are now talking FAA imposed building restrictions for home built aircraft (I'd love to see what the FAA calls a safe control line model and what specifications they provide!), taking and passing on-line FAA imposed safety courses, and carrying an FAA card saying you passed that on-line safety course with you every time you fly, not just in competition.
I "hope" a bunch of exemptions come down later as amendments, and C/L gets an exemption, if for no other reason, the FAA is too lazy or overwhelmed to be bothered with coming up with safety spec for C/L and approved vendors, builds, monitoring our activities, etc.
At this point, it's all still just talk. The ATC hostile takeover also in the bill might keep it from making headway, unless they just strike that line item and pass the rest. Who knows with these guys?
Everything we have thought would be a reasonable course has been ignored so far.
EricV
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Doc, I think you are missing the bigger picture here. This has gone way beyond mere registration. That was cake.
We are now talking FAA imposed building restrictions for home built aircraft (I'd love to see what the FAA calls a safe control line model and what specifications they provide!), taking and passing on-line FAA imposed safety courses, and carrying an FAA card saying you passed that on-line safety course with you every time you fly, not just in competition.
They have already (somewhere that I have lost) suggested that the model must include items like "geofencing" software, presumably approved geofencing software. So you have no way of complying.
The AMA is still walking in lockstep with the drone manufacturers, into the shredder. I have to say, at this point, short of a miracle, *model airplanes the way we understand them are going to be made illegal*. It's insanity.
Brett
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In a populated area the FAA owns the air above 1,000 feet. They don't own the air we fly in.
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In a populated area the FAA owns the air above 1,000 feet. They don't own the air we fly in.
They claim otherwise and have senate bills and their own regulations to back it up.
Brett
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I disagree that model aviation as we know it is over just yet-although I am worried.
I think the precedent set by rocketry vs the BATFE and the successful finding that BATFE had made "arbitrary and capricious" regulations is a roadmap for the AMA here as far as using litigation to fix the problem.
My concern with that approach are the fact it took a decade (or more, I would have to dig through the old reports as I can't remember anymore). The Govt's ability to drag their feet over even the most trivial communication was astounding.
My other concern is that AMA might sell us out-in effect telling those events that scratch build their own planes (stunt, scale, what else?) "sorry guys, now you have to use ARFs like everybody else" and not actually fight to redress bad law at the heart of the issue.
I guess Moritz and Modesto will have the last laugh if the BOM has to be de-implemented and the Nats becomes an all Yatsenko one design event.
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I guess Moritz and Modesto will have the last laugh if the BOM has to be de-implemented and the Nats becomes an all Yatsenko one design event.
I wouldn't put Dennis and Jose in the same category. Jose genuinely believes in something and is pursuing it as he thinks best. Dennis just fancies himself a "player" and a gadfly and causes issues for his own entertainment, and thinks he's being clever. There have been plenty like him before, he just takes advantage of the internet to make himself feel more important.
Removing the BOM will literally be the end of stunt, by definition, because building the model is an intrinsic part of it.
Brett
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They have already (somewhere that I have lost) suggested that the model must include items like "geofencing" software, presumably approved geofencing software. So you have no way of complying.
The AMA is still walking in lockstep with the drone manufacturers, into the shredder. I have to say, at this point, short of a miracle, *model airplanes the way we understand them are going to be made illegal*. It's insanity.
Brett
Well, it would certainly suck, but there could be technology based solutions for some things like that, as long as they don't want full time active tracking for the ATC to spot you at all times. Things like RFID tags, like those used to track items leaving a store, could be small and light enough to be stuck on a model to trigger an alarm when they enter the verboten zone. Whatever they come up with, you would think they would have a way of grandfathering in existing (gag) drones... and a RFID tag would be simple, small and light enough to do it.
Then Ranger Rick will have to carry a hand scanner and do random spot checks if he catches you flying, to see if your plane has it's RFID tag. And...while I think an RFID could be made more viable than the local Sherrif's ankle bracelets or carrying a full onboard CPU with GPS, I prefer Spock's viridium patch which probably has better range...
EricV
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Maybe I'm optimistic but I'm thinking if these laws go on the books it will be as tools to go after the most aggregious cases ( like an airport incident with a drone and privacy invasion ). Policing this otherwise is too much trouble and extra expense for local law enforcement to worry about or care unless they have cause. The FAA will never have the manpower to do much. I'm sure local FAA officials are laughing at this. I think the biggest issue for us is if 'locals' try using these rules to close or deny new flying sites with other motives. Fly till you die!
Dave
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"One of the provisions would still require hobbyists to who build their own models at home to meet FAA design and production standards." Is the AMA and their lawyers really stretching it here? Here's the bills wording:
‘‘(g) PROHIBITION.—It shall be unlawful for any person to introduce or deliver for introduction into interstate commerce any unmanned aircraft manufactured after the date that the Administrator adopts consensus aircraft safety standards under this section, unless the manufacturer has received approval under subsection (d) for each make and model.’’
Is a box full of balsa wood sticks a hobby kit or an unmanned aircraft? If you glue together that box full of balsa wood does that make you a manufacturer? Is flying that same model for personal enjoyment considered interstate commerce? I guess only the lawyers will be able to figure it out in the end.
Love'm or loath'm, the AMA still needs your support at the moment.
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Maybe I'm optimistic but I'm thinking if these laws go on the books it will be as tools to go after the most aggregious cases ( like an airport incident with a drone and privacy invasion ). Policing this otherwise is too much trouble and extra expense for local law enforcement to worry about or care unless they have cause. The FAA will never have the manpower to do much. I'm sure local FAA officials are laughing at this.
I don't find breaking Federal law (which this is, as Michael points out above) to be a trivial issue, and I am not (and many others are not) in a position to jeopardize their standing by breaking the law. Matt, for example, can be locked out of his career entirely.
This has to be addressed the proper way, with either an exemption or a definition of rules that are possible to comply with. Otherwise, game over.
Brett
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I sure do think every means to prevent these silly restrictions has to be pursued. I also believe that at the street level common sense will prevail in the end. Over reaction to things will usually be seen and responded to in a reasonable manner. Besides even though I've never gotten a speeding ticket I won't be saying I've not driven a couple over once in a while. It could be true somebody may be made a harsh example of for the rule makers to demonstrate themselves, but I don't see new model swat teams being formed to keep me and my airplane out of the bean field. I doubt my rap sheet will say 'convicted modeler'. :))
Dave
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Have you guys looked in side the front cover of the latest Model Aviation? ???
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You mean the big 2 page advertisement for flying sub 250 gram hunks of foam and plastic without needing FAA registration? Yeah I saw it...
Also got my Tower flyer in the mail yesterday, I counted the first 14 Pages full of multi rotor arfs, and in the back, the new RealFlight 7.5 or whatever now has a virtual multi rotor drone to fly added to their software.
Both hit the circular file in record timing.
EricV
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Blank
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I'm rather expecting a huge hiring program at the FAA, for ARMED FAA agents, much like the IRS has been reported to have done. If this (IRS) is true, and the FAA follows the same course, I'm thinking that it's a plan to increase the number of highly paid government employees, further increasing our National Debt AND making those hirelings become de facto Federal POLICE in case of a Declaration of Martial Law. If it happens, you read about it first, right here on Stunt Hangar.
Meanwhile, why don't we bombard FAA with requests for inspectors for our models? Appropriate stages of construction should be multiple, perhaps after the engine crutch/fuselage assembly has been finished, but before all the "foof" added. And of course, the wing, after the spar webbing has been added and controls installed, but before the center section sheeting has been installed. The pushrods and tail group would be another inspection sequence, of course, and as FUBAR as the Federal Government seems to be, each would need a different inspector and mounds of paperwork. Would they have anybody qualified to do these inspections? Probably not. :o Steve
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I really don't know what is happening in our country anymore. We have men who want to be women, women who want to be men and people who don't know what they are. I have always looked at this hobby as an escape from the decay that is rapidly destroying our culture, morals and western civilization in general. I used to be able to walk back in my shop, pull out a plan take a pile of balsa and build something that flies and never did it occur to me that it would become the center of such a ridiculous and stupid controversy or even warrant a discussion of some government agency getting involved and causing me to wonder if was going to be breaking a law by doing so or subject to the whims of some bureaucrats on a power trip. This is fast NOT becoming fun anymore and I am seriously questioning if I want to be a part of of it anymore.
The AMA made a serious mistake by getting in bed with these drone/quadcopter entities and should have segregated themselves from the very beginning and stuck with with true model aviation and there were many of us on here who said that when it was becoming apparent they were whoring themselves out for the money. I have no idea what they were thinking when they embraced them but it sure has not worked out the way they thought it would I am sure.
I just read where they expect 2.5 million of these hovering pests to be sold this year alone. With projected numbers like this, I do not expect the situation to get any better.
Anyway, we were having a tough enough time just keeping our hobby alive without the government sticking their nose into it and this may be the straw that breaks the camels back. The media attention to all of this is 100% negative and if we are lumped into this drone insanity, then perception will become reality now matter what we put in the air. AMA in their infinite wisdom has done a great job of making sure we have been identified as such.
For the past few years I have built a lot of airplanes for other folks and have produced some kits that were not otherwise commercially available and I have tremendously enjoyed doing both and have become filthy rich in the meantime. (THAT LAST LINE WAS A JOKE) However, I am taking a hard look at whether I even want to do this anymore. Even if we escape all this crap in Control Line, the RC fixed wing folks and Helicopter guys don't look like they will. I think a lot of people and especially those of who compete in contests, keep hoping AMA is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat and all of this is going to go away. I would not count on it. I am extremely disappointed in how the AMA handled all this.
Mike
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Mike.....I agree with you comments about AMA acting stupidly. I first joined AMA in 1956 and was a member on and off again and thru 1987. Since 1987, I have been 126416 continuously thru 2014 when I hung my number up, vowing not to support AMA any longer. They have stopped representing me and so I have left them. I am now just a sport flier who will try to get in a few flights every flying season and escape being arrested and cuffed by the FAA Gestapo. Like you, when I started flying C/L in 1953, I would never have guessed that the federal government would regulate this hobby out of existence.......but it is happening. D>K H^^
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Steve,
Don't expect these inspections to be "free".........
Jim
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I have a brand new, in the box Sig Twister. Anybody want it? I think I'm done HB~>
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We have men who want to be women, women who want to be men and people who don't know what they are.
"Girls will be boys, and boys will be girls.
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world"
-- Lola, 1970 - The Kinks (lyrics by Ray Davies)
So what's new?
And what has that got to do with FAA (over)regulation?
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I don't have the time nor the inclination to explain it to you EJN.
Mike
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I don't find breaking Federal law (which this is, as Michael points out above) to be a trivial issue, and I am not (and many others are not) in a position to jeopardize their standing by breaking the law. Matt, for example, can be locked out of his career entirely.
This has to be addressed the proper way, with either an exemption or a definition of rules that are possible to comply with. Otherwise, game over.
Brett
If everything goes as planned, I'm supposed to be working for the FAA as an air traffic controller in the next year or two. A couple of my professors (who are retired controllers) and I have had discussions over UAS and the problems they can cause. They basically said that as long as they don't interfere with aircraft on final or departure, they couldn't care less where they are or how they operate. Controllers have MUCH more responsibility than worrying about whether I am flying a DJI Phantom, giant scale RC airplane, or a Staris 15 miles away from an airport and that I am registered with the FAA. The RC club that I am president of at school has an LOA with Daytona tower and we are allowed to fly right next to the approach path of runway 16, as long as our altitude is kept under 100ft. I brief the club every semester on this LOA, and in the 8 years the club has had it, we have never had an incident.
I'm just frustrated with the FAA, and them thinking they can enforce something like what they keep saying, which is mostly why I posted what I did above.
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I have a brand new, in the box Sig Twister. Anybody want it? I think I'm done HB~>
When you are done, I'll take it Stew! I'm a rebel!
R,
Chris
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It figures Senator Bill Nelson had something to do with this. He was instrumental in closing down a runway at Valkaria AP in Florida many years back. His house happened to be in the glide path...and it was the best runway for prevailing winds. I used to fly out of Valkaria.
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Guys, go back and re read the FAA ruling. It states building for COMMERCIAL USE, not toy airplanes. Nothing new there, they have been inspecting home builts for air worthiness for years and years. Don't blame them. We have had two old men in their 70's die in home built crashes in the last four years. D>K
That seems to be at odds with what AMA is saying.
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Guys, go back and re read the FAA ruling. It states building for COMMERCIAL USE, not toy airplanes. Nothing new there, they have been inspecting home builts for air worthiness for years and years. Don't blame them. We have had two old men in their 70's die in home built crashes in the last four years. D>K
You are misinterpreting it. When they say "introduce into commerce", they mean flying it in the NAS. It definitely *does* mean us.
Brett
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I'm confused too, I thought commerce was business.
Chris...
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I don't want to get into Politics or Religion... But my bet is that praying or voting would be more productive than waiting for the AMA to represent traditional modelers. I disagree with the AMA's direction lately and sent my feelings to them by not renewing. It seems in our crazy world common sense is not always followed, and in that situation, lawsuits get attention. Sad but true. Is anyone actively pursuing legal action to get some attention on this? If so, I would like to support them with the money AMA isn't going to get.
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I'm confused too, I thought commerce was business.
Chris...
Me three....
But maybe a request for a definition is in order.
I certainly interpreted it to mean producing for sale. I can definitely be wrong though, it won't be the last time, either.
R,
Chris (B)
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I am still on the fence as to what to do. I have not flown a plane this year, partly because of back pain and some other things like my wife not being well for several months. And, partly because I have no idea how this is going to all play out. I have pretty much decided that I will not sign up with the FAA as I do not want to get involved in what may later become something more than it might be now. I belong to a model club that fly's both R/C and control line. From what the club president said no one in the club is going to sign up either. Although they are all still flying as far as I know.
Since the club field is 27 miles from my house, I have not been over to check them out.
Yeah John, I did read the two articles in MA and the overstepping of the FAA. I do not see any solution short term and it looks like the states are starting to get involved. Some have already written laws that did not pass at least the first time around, to stop all model flying in their state. Looks to me like just a matter of time.
I still play with my ignition engines, and may try my hand at building a few tether or R/C cars based on spark engines. It really has thrown a monkey wrench in the works, and I am just to old to fight it anymore. I know that sounds like a cop out, but I do not see how this can possibly work out for our good. The more you fight with them, the more they will dig in their heels and fight back. My experience in such cases is they will want to proclaim their power to control our activity all the more.
Am I just old and negative, or is this not reality. If you have anything positive to say that is in the realm of real solutions that you think might possibly happen I would like to hear them. If not I may be done with flying at least. At 75 years old it is a shame to end it this way, but I just do not have much hope for model aviation as we know it. Once the government gets involved it will be full steam ahead.
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It seems that the courts have given "interstate commerce" a very broad definition. Even though you never intend to sell your finished product in another state, the components you purchased to manufacture your product most likely involved interstate commerce. Therefore by extension your finished product has involved, or been introduced into, interstate commerce. The FAA has jurisdiction over your scratch built Ringmaster.
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Wow. What a turn of events over the past few months with this FAA thing.
I too, am having to re-evaluate my position. It is still way too early for me to tell just what direction I will take.
On the one hand, I like the idea of being a part of a club and helping with promotion of the hobby of C/L, but on the other hand, I now see some merit in going "under the radar" (so to speak) and simply enjoy my hobby that's been a part of me (to a greater or lesser degree) since the mid-1960s in less physically visible ways. Seeing as sanctioned competition has never been a "thing" for me... it won't make a whit's difference to not be a part of the AMA.
However, I don't know if remaining with the AMA is good, in view of the FAA. That is, I would be on the "active member" AMA list when/if the time comes for the mail-out of a mandatory "Register or cease flying. Otherwise face penalties" type general mail-out.
What a mess.