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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Curare on June 06, 2013, 07:54:25 PM
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Hey guys, I've been out flying recently, and it occured to me that I may be whipping into a wingover wrongly. If I go too hard I get a wobble before I yank on the up-line.
I thought I'd ask the question on whether there's a good way to approach whipping so you don't adversely affect the flight path.
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I retracted my answer. This question can't be real ~^ #^ n~ HB~> mw~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Eh? why not?
I wanna know if I'm doing it wrong!
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Eh? why not?
I wanna know if I'm doing it wrong!
When I whip into a maneuver, I get ahead of it by about 90 degrees, arm at full length, and then step back and draw my hand in so that when the airplane gets to the desired spot, I am square to the maneuver and with my arm in the normal position. Just like anything else, it's a matter of practice.
BTW, don't ever think about "yanking" the controls. Particularly entering the wingover. If nothing else, no one can tell if you are softening up that corner, and since you start with the nose a bit into the wind, it doesn't take much control to get it to turn.
Ed might be commenting on the fact that "nobody does this any more" since we now have decent engines, and you can usually get away without it. But watch David Fitzgerald do an hourglass in the wind sometime, even with a PA75 in a large 35-sized airplane. I personally whip a lot less than most people, but still do it in certain situations (wingover entry and hourglass in significant air).
Brett
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Curare, why are you needing to whip it? I just pick my reference for where to begin the wingover and when I get there on the next lap I bump full up, and up and over she goes. Make sure you start the climb with the wind in your face so the tail wind helps carry it over the top. You start the climb on the windward side, 180 degrees opposite where you do loops and other stunts.
EDIT: Brett posted while I was writing. He's done a lot more of them than me, so I defer to what he says is best.
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Okay, lets go into a bit more detail, I'm left handed which I'm not sure makes a lot of difference, but I think it may.
I'm leading a fair bit before I go into the wingover, but not as much as 90° and I have (probably bad) habit of going to full extension across the top of the wingover, so I can see my hand and the aircraft all at once.
I should also point out that at this time of the year there's virturally no wind, so i don't have anything to work with.My thoughts were that if I whipped it in, I'd have good airspeed to stop it falling in over the top.
I'm flying a 48" profile with an RSM .35 electric equivalent (35-36A), and it's probably a bit light on for power too, which is probably making things worse.
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Well, I learned to do wingovers with seriously overpowered 1/2A planes, like a 7.2oz Baby Streak with a screaming Norvel .061. That made the lines tight no matter where I chose to turn it up. My first real Stunter like all the guys here fly is a Shoestring with a Thunder Tiger .25, and I've only been flying it for a few weeks, but it has plenty of power to stay tight over the top too, thus my failure to understand why whipping might be necessary. I've only flown it on windy days though. I fully extend while going over the top too. Left handed certainly affects your body position at entry. It would be like me doing a wingover from inverted, which I haven't done yet.
Sorry I'm not helping, I just find it interesting as I'm only beginning to learn the stunts. That's my mission this Summer.
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Okay, lets go into a bit more detail, I'm left handed which I'm not sure makes a lot of difference, but I think it may.
I'm leading a fair bit before I go into the wingover, but not as much as 90° and I have (probably bad) habit of going to full extension across the top of the wingover, so I can see my hand and the aircraft all at once.
I should also point out that at this time of the year there's virturally no wind, so i don't have anything to work with.My thoughts were that if I whipped it in, I'd have good airspeed to stop it falling in over the top.
I'm flying a 48" profile with an RSM .35 electric equivalent (35-36A), and it's probably a bit light on for power too, which is probably making things worse.
I'm left handed and have never whipped the airplane going into the wing over. Just before I enter it, I turn my body 90 degrees to the wind so that the airplane travels over my head and back down on the left side of me. When inverted I don't have to move my footing so I won't lose my point for the intersection.
If you have to whip your airplane to get it over the top of the wing over, my first question I would ask is how long are your lines? Next one is where are your leaders located in relation to the cg?
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I am left handed and usually whip to enter the hourglass and the 4 leaf clover. My technique is similar to what Brett described above. With practice you can impart enough energy into plane to assist the maneuver.
Jim Hoffman
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See Ed Ruane, I thought I was doing it wrong! ;D
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<SNIP>
I should also point out that at this time of the year there's virturally no wind, so i don't have anything to work with.My thoughts were that if I whipped it in, I'd have good airspeed to stop it falling in over the top.
I'm flying a 48" profile with an RSM .35 electric equivalent (35-36A), and it's probably a bit light on for power too, which is probably making things worse.
Have to say this, can't help myself... Saito 40 would solve the problem VD~
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. . . Ed might be commenting on the fact that "nobody does this any more" since we now have decent engines, and you can usually get away without it. But watch David Fitzgerald do an hourglass in the wind sometime, even with a PA75 in a large 35-sized airplane. I personally whip a lot less than most people, but still do it in certain situations (wingover entry and hourglass in significant air).
Brett
I watched Dave do this exact thing at the North West Regional a few weeks ago. I'm not sure how strong the wind was, but I know most of us in Advanced were "passing" on our second round, and those that didn't almost didn't live to tell about it! Then Dave does the hourglass; he whipped for one extra lap and then nailed it. Beautiful.
Brian
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Perhaps you have toooo much control movement.
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If you watch Paul Walker flying, he's backing around the pilot's circle. This is constant whipping. It not only builds speed for the next trick, it also cuts down the time consumed on the level laps between tricks. Is that a good thing? Well, it rushes the judges a tad, but it saves some time for a few extra laps if you need to signal the judges to move, or if you need to take an extra lap for some reason. At least, those are some reasons I've deduced. I'd like to hear Paul's version.
So, do I back around the pilot's circle? Heck no! My feet are numb from peripheral neuropathy, so I'd almost certainly fall on my butt. I manage to sort of pivot around the center, and feel lucky to be able to do that.
We often have to fly in very calm conditions, so "wake turbulence" is a common challenge. Backing up (shuffling a foot at a time) during the consecutive tricks is something we learn fast, or else the carnage is considerable. Last season, I was learning to shuffle toward the plane in windy conditions, but I haven't done it yet this year (rust, with only 5 flights before Regionals). Though I thought about stepping downwind, there were a lot of people walking around on the downwind side of the circle, and I wasn't comfortable doing it. Procedure is to be at the upwind side of the pilots circle, then step downwind to reduce line tension and keep the model's airspeed down. Both these techniques make a huge difference. #^ Steve
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFelZaO9LI
Paul Walker flight
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Here is Paul flying his black Cobra. After watching 6 video I noticed Paul leans right and back entering most stunts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0VY6RnYPs
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I thought DEVO had the best whipit technique !!!!
?? wondering If I beat Howard to it??
But seriously you maybe better off to try the pull techinque, that is have a straight arm when entering the WO the step backwards as you pull your arm inwards towards you smoothly, and without fast jerking, this also works well in the hourglass
Randy
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I've watched that first Paul Walker video a number of times, particularly his body position in the wingovers, and also the entry and follow through of the vertical figure 8. I want to try my first vertical 8 this weekend. I'll do it with my 1/2A Baby Streak first because I'm not confident enough with the Shoestring yet and not quite ready to slag it before it's fully trimmed.
Near the end of the flight when he's back stepping around the edge of the circle, it made me think to ask, what is the penalty of stepping on or outside of the pilot's circle? When I fly, I'm all over the place, so that's something I'll have to add to my list of things to work on.
Rusty
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I have not seen anyone penalized for stepping outside the pilot circle for a few seconds. The penalty is if someone is standing to close to the flying circle and the pilot is low and too far outside the pilot circle.
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There is no penalty for stepping outside the marked pilot's circle. However...if somebody is doing it on purpose for some reason (?), then there is potential of DQ for unsafe flying.
It's tough to mark a circle on grass and have it hold up for the duration of a 2 day contest, but it works ok if refreshed on a daily basis. Use spray cans of marker paint, available at any good hardware store. It won't hurt the grass and will wash off asphalt or concrete in a week or two. The white marker paint shows up better than orange on both grass and asphalt.
FYI, I'm seldom inside the pilot's circle when my model stops rolling on the landing, but the plane is well inside the circle, too. For a contest, we usually mark an 80' radius (160' diameter) circle to give the judges something to reference, to keep them safe. H^^ Steve
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You know you are too far out of the circle when the judges are running.
Dave
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You know you are too far out of the circle when the judges are running.
Dave
Haha, thanks for the answers, everyone.