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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: mark eisenhut on November 24, 2006, 06:49:38 AM
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i need a tuff plane for my grand kids to learn on ages 4 -8 we have a pt 19 trainer but its so heavy it wont even get off the ground maybe i need a new motor . i need a plane that will take a pounding and that will be kid friendly. i learend on a pt 19 and it would fly this one wont. we tried hand lanching it but it fell to the ground. any input is very welcomed.
thank you
mark eisenhut
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If you want a kit Sig sells the 1/2A Skyray and a few others,Brodak has a whole line of 1/2A kits including a trainer, and Blackhawk Models sells a variety of Walt Musciano designs and other 1/2A kits.
Another option is to get plans from Flying Models for one of the Dick Sarpolus 1/2A profile designs, he did a bunch of semi-scale sheet balsa warbirds, etc.
The cheapest alternative is to get a sheet of 1/4" x 4" , and 1/8" X 3" balsa and scratch build one. For a reed valve engine like the one in the PT-19 the following dimensions will get you a flyable / stable model on 25' to 35' lines. these were taken off a CG Wizard I pulled down from the shelf.
wing is 1/4" sheet with a 22" span and a 4" chord- sand to an airfoil
Fuselage 1/4" sheet with a length 12" X 1 3/4 to 2 1/2" tall, firewall approx 2 1/2" forward of the wing leading edge. Taper thickness aft of the wing.
Stab / elevator / fin are made from 1/8" sheet, stab / elevator are 8 1/2" wide, 1" chord on elevator and a 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 width on stab, fin is 3 wide X 2 1/2 high.
Draw these dimension on the appropriate thickness sheets, put some taper / sweep back on the leading edge of the fin and stab, Draw a fuselage profile that looks good to you with a minimum 1 3/4" at the firewall to fit the engine mount.
You can mount the engine with a couple pieces of 3/4" aluminum angle, or build up a mounting surface using balsa triangle stock and a piece of plywood.
It's pretty easy and the grandkids can help. Any needed accessories like bellcranks and horns can be purchased from your local hobby shop or ordered from Sig or Brodak.
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Mark
I am using a 290 Special designed by Dale Kirn and published in the June 1967 Model Airplane News. It is 18 inch wingspan and all wood. I reinforced it by making the front of the wing from 1/4 x 1 basswood and changing the top and bottom sheets from balsa to basswood. Mine is powered by a McCoy .049 with a APC 6x2 prop. I made the wing 1/4 inch thick.
Clancy
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i need a tuff plane for my grand kids to learn on ages 4 -8
The "Flop" published in Model Aviation might be a good airplane for this. It is all cardboard so construction is cheap and simple. Also supposedly very rugged. The article ends with "If you are overly nervous in trying to fly it, just let it bash into the ground a time or two. Pick it up, dust it off, start the engine, and try again."
cheers,
Ken
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If you are going to stay with 1/2A's the above is fine. I have had best results with a "Flying Clown" powered with Fox 15 Schneurles. Now I am running 7-4 props to slow it down and also break in the engine for racing. Yes that is how I have been breaking in engines. LA 25's on "The Skyray" and Fox 15 Schneurles on "Flying Clown". Now Emmy is leanring to do more than fly level, I need new students. DOC Holliday
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Old mouse racers make excellent trainers. Mouse racers are both stable and strong. Just use one of your not the best engines, a 6 x3, 10% fuel and that old set of 35 ft lines,.
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Here's a couple designed specifically to train new fliers--tough, but enough wing to fly well and stunt when you progress that far. See them at my website:
http://snipurl.com/9igp
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How about a Ferdinand?
(http://uk.geocities.com/the.elmores@btinternet.com/ferdinand670000.jpg)
Plans for two versions can be found here:
http://uk.geocities.com/the.elmores@btinternet.com/
Tony
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Mark,
IMHO there is NO BETTER plane to train a person to fly control line on than the Man-Win trainer. It is dirt cheap, can not be destroyed, (built from coroplast plastic sign material)will loop and fly inverted (if your tank will permit) and can be built in under a day.
Here is the link to the free plans:
http://www.balsabeavers.ca/images/Trainer2.pdf
I have trained dozens of kids and adults to fly solo on this plane.
Kim.
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Here is what I started my boys on. Platters.
Pick up some old election signs and you have one tough 1/2a trainer.
If you want to go bigger, Brodak has the Flite Streak Trainer. The Sig Buster and Shoestring are also good trainers. But you can not play yard darts like you can with the platters.
Here is a link to the site with plans for the platter as well as other home made trainers.
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/
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That's a neat plane, Kim.
Have you tried it with less than 18° engine offset? Would a strip of tape along the elevator LE be benificial?
Thanks!
Derek
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A Flite Streak Trainer is a good one with .15 power. We had one as kids and it was virtually indestrucible. A good all around trainer but might be a bit much for younger kids.
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That's a neat plane, Kim.
Have you tried it with less than 18° engine offset? Would a strip of tape along the elevator LE be beneficial?
Thanks!
Derek
Derek,
In "Trainer" mode this is where you want the offset to be. It makes life a lot easier when someone finds themselves very high and upwind. We have also "Raced" man-win trainers, three up and in that configuration you could certainly reduce the offset.
The elevator works just fine as it is. This is such a good flying plane for its purpose that to change it is just a waste of time.
Kim.
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ray ,
will the Minnie delta and the barn door take off from grass?
thanks
mark eisenhut
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Depends entirely on the grass...it would have to be pretty short. They both pretty much jump off the ground, especially the BarnDoor, so a large piece of corrugated cardboard would suffice for a takeoff ramp. 3 or 4 feet would be all you'd need.
--Ray
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My vote is for theSkyray 1/2A. flew one this summer in a local contest(Plainfield Screaming Eagles Triathlon). It took alot of abuse and kept on flying,I finally did it in while trying to do my first loop. Some CAand kicker,we were back in business.The only deviation from the directions was to wrap the motor mount in gauze and epoxy. BULLETPROOF!!!