Whittier Narrows Issue

[Howard Rush]

This is a bit of a peremptory post.  The Corps of Engineers issued a plan for Whittier Narrows.   The document is 3 MB.  That's too big to attach here, but I'll send you a copy if you email me a request.  It is generally favorable to us and reflects the good feedback modelers have given to the Corps.   One paragraph that has caused some concern is the following on page 6-5:

"Model Airplane Hobby Area
This activity dates back to 1952 at the Basin. There is a very strong, active and vocal user group that self-polices its activities and helps maintain the site. Over the intermediate to long-term planning horizon, with the Corps emphasis on environmental stewardship, yet recognizing the long history and community support of this activity, it is recommended that a further study be conducted with public input that considers phasing out the use of gasoline powered model aircraft in favor of electric powered aircraft with the establishment of noise level standards. Additional study could also consider addition of a small picnic area/spectator zone to the west side of the field."

We don't know what the Corps of Engineers' objection is to our engines, nor when any action is scheduled to take place. I think the first step is to find out.  Before anybody else sends in his opinion to the Corps, please read the document and wait until we see what they mean, if anything, by the one wishy-washy sentence.

One snotty note to the authorities from a guy on the East Coast unfamiliar with the background of an issue he read about on Stunthangar cost us a flying field in Washington a couple of weeks ago.  Please don't let that happen to Whittier Narrows.   

[Balsa Butcher]

The request for e-mails was made by John Wright who has been involved in the Whittier Narrows controversy since the beginning. He should know what response is appropriate. I do agree though we don't want to fan the flames and possibly alienate those in the Corps of Engineers who might otherwise support our position.

[Howard Rush]

I sent Ms. Lamb a note asking what the author of the offending sentence perceives the environmental benefit of electric airplanes over "gasoline"-powered airplanes to be.  If she answers, we can focus the mail a little better and, I hope, invoke Science to defend our engines.   

[Derek Barry]

I guess they use electric lawnmowers to cut the grass?

[Larry Cunningham]

Out of curiosity, how does the Corps of Engineers have any money to do anything nowadays? My podiatric surgeon had to flee LA to find work in Las Cruces.

I suspect by the time anything gets started, you guys will be all electric anyway, what with future Lithium-Oxygen batteries approaching the energy density of gasoline and all.. http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/better-battery-storage-0725.html (Invest in those Lithium futures!)

I'm just teasing, although the battery technology is getting interesting.

And I'm always a bit amused when people assume we are running gasoline in our models. (Yeh, I know, I know - some of us do..)

Good luck on your negotiations, your cause is righteous.

L.

"'Be Yourself' is about the worst advice you can give to people." -Mark Twain

[Tim Wescott]

And I'm always a bit amused when people assume we are running gasoline in our models. (Yeh, I know, I know - some of us do..)

Yes, I saw that in the quoted letter and was thinking "go ahead -- ban gasoline engines!"

[Balsa Butcher]

FWIW: Got a response from Ms. Lamb thanking me for my input and that it would be considered in the final report. I guess the e-mail campaign may not be a bad thing.

[proparc]

Whatever we do, the main thing is to act like ambassadors to the sport and keep it nice and friendly. "Boy, those people who fly on strings sure are nice-lets let them stay awhile".

[Randy Powell]

As we experienced recently, you are always much better off to be nice. Trust me, we know.

[David M Johnson]

I know this is the STUNT forum but the issue of noise at the Narrows is most likely due to a few activities by Speed flyers (can you say JET) and the Tether cars and the combat users that are very close by.  I'm in no way condemning these activities. on the contrary these SHOULD and MUST be supported by ALL fliers that use the facilities at the narrows.  A brief explanation shows that by isolating the users one by one all users can be eliminated. If we say ok, no more speed then the overall attendance is reduced, so then they go after the combat guys, then the racing guys, one by one the activity is reduced at the site until no one is left to stick up for the stunt guys who probably use it the most.
I know this sounds like a tirade but this is a DIVIDE and CONQUER tactic is used by more and more special interest groups. Please stand shoulder to shoulder with all the Control line fliers and yes coordinate so that we do not offend.  Remember that if we loose one group we are weaker as a whole.
Rant over
David M Johnson
 

[Howard Rush]

I got a response from Ms. Lamb.  She didn’t say what the objection to engines is, but she said that “The planning term would be 10-25 years.”  Hard to say what the relation of a term is to a horizon, but I gather it’s a long time.  I might poke her again to ask about the specific vice of our engines, but it looks like I have a decade to do so.

[AT1984]

I got interested in C/L flying by my interest in Tether Cars. There sure aren't many places in the whole country to to run one. I chose what I figured would be "do-able" up here in Washington State, C/L flying. There is one place to fly locally, and I'm trying to work on finding another.

At least the Corps of Engineers included this: "This activity dates back to 1952 at the Basin. There is a very strong, active and vocal user group that self-polices its activities and helps maintain the site."

That is definitely positive for the fliers.

Electric would really have to come down in cost for me to use it...I'd hate to see their area downsized or restricted to only electric.

When I hit the lottery, everyone from my area will have a place to fly!

[Howard Rush]

Allen,

Be sure to mosey up to the Auburn airport this weekend for the stunt contest.

[AT1984]

Howard,

I'll be there...probably Sunday, MAYBE both days.

Allen

[Fred Cronenwett]

Having been a CD for a contest at Whittier the events that make the most nosise are combat, carrier, racing and speed since they do not have a muffler. The events with mufflers such as Scale and Stunt are quiet in comparison.

By the way have they measured the noise from the freeway? The model airplane airplane engines with mufflers are quiet compared to the Freeway and all of the cars.

Good luck,
Fred Cronenwett

[Mike Callas]

Having been a CD for a contest at Whittier the events that make the most nosise are combat, carrier, racing and speed since they do not have a muffler. The events with mufflers such as Scale and Stunt are quiet in comparison.

By the way have they measured the noise from the freeway? The model airplane airplane engines with mufflers are quiet compared to the Freeway and all of the cars.

Good luck,
Fred Cronenwett

Fred,
The type of people we are dealing with are unfamiliar with speed, racing, carrier or stunt. They even think we use gas to power our planes.
The case for a greener activity is bogus as methanol burners are inherently clean. The sound issue is also weak since our field is surrounded by a rifle range on one side, the 10 fwy and a shotgun range on the other side. I doubt the NRA will take closing these facilities lightly. I believe these issues are red herrings.

The real issue is found elsewhere in the report. I read the report, among the requested goodies is an expansion of soccer fields to serve the growing immigrant population.
These recommendations will be seized upon by the local supervisor Gloria Molina. I'm sure she would rather create more soccer fields than keep us in business.
It's sad but it is a sign of the times. Our heritage and way of life is being replaced by a third world order.
 

[Paul Smith]

One could mention that modelers got a millenium ahead of the power curve by using wood alcohol while other motor sports squandered that nasty air-poluting fossil fuel.

I'm just a bit curious what the Corps of Engineers has to do with anything?  As I understand it, they got into the flood control business because of that bit of unpleasantness in Johnstown PA.  But apart from whether or not a place gets flooded, why are they judging the use of a piece of land?

[ChrisSarnowski]

>One snotty note to the authorities from a guy on the East Coast unfamiliar with the background of an issue he read about >on Stunthangar cost us a flying field in Washington a couple of weeks ago.

Someone want to fill me in on this comment? Feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
Chris

[chuck_b24]

Fred,
The type of people we are dealing with are unfamiliar with speed, racing, carrier or stunt. They even think we use gas to power our planes.
The case for a greener activity is bogus as methanol burners are inherently clean. The sound issue is also weak since our field is surrounded by a rifle range on one side, the 10 fwy and a shotgun range on the other side. I doubt the NRA will take closing these facilities lightly. I believe these issues are red herrings.

The real issue is found elsewhere in the report. I read the report, among the requested goodies is an expansion of soccer fields to serve the growing immigrant population.
These recommendations will be seized upon by the local supervisor Gloria Molina. I'm sure she would rather create more soccer fields than keep us in business.
It's sad but it is a sign of the times. Our heritage and way of life is being replaced by a third world order.
 

search Gloria Molina     

thats all I am saying & REMEMBER ANY POST on here can be seen by ANYBODY!!!!

[bob werle]

I do not feel this will go away till the "Gloria Molins Soccer facility" is built on our field.  Both C/L and RC.