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Author Topic: Getting Serious with the T-Rex  (Read 7276 times)

Offline Bradley Walker

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Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« on: March 12, 2010, 10:39:42 AM »
I was talking to Steve Fitton the other night on the phone and we got to talking about what I would do to take the T-Rex to the "next level" considering the way the first production run went (it was really much better wood than I anticipated).  If I were to take the standard ARC to "Nats" level what would I do?  It was a pretty short list really.

1.  Add the ply doubler extensions at the trailing edge if your version does not already have it .  The latest versions will have this installed.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=16383.0


2.  Thoroughly soak the fuel tank area (all of the joints) with thin CA.  Paint the entire area with thinned epoxy.  Glass the F2 joint to the side walls or fillet with epoxolite or similar.  Also do the BACK of F2 (on the wing side the same).  Add 1/4" lite ply tripler to the back of F2 at the top of the wing airfoil (to butt strengthen F2 from the top).  Soak all that in CA.
3.  Thoroughly soak the end grain of the lite ply F2 all along the radius that will eventually be the bottom of the plane.  Just keep soaking it until it will not take any more CA.
4.  Add 1/32" ply for 1" at the flap root over the flap horns.  Sheet the stabs and elevators (as is) with 1/32" light balsa (per Bob Reeves).  Sheet one side at a time, allowing the flaps to dry on a flat board while the whole thing is weighted.   Butt join ply to new sheeting.  Glass the horn area with 3/4" glass at ply and balsa joint.
5.  Soak the flap and elevator control horn holes with CA and re-drill hole slightly oversized (so the horn is a little loose).  Join flaps and elevators on the flat board before assembly.  Use Gorilla glue as it will fill the hole and gets glues to steel better than anything.  The slop in the hole will make it easy to get everything flat.  Weight it down while it dries.
6.  I would buy new pre bent control horns and pushrods (complete with turnbuckle link in the back) from Tom Morris.  Buy the SHORTER 1.25" horn for the front and the matching slider horn for the back.  Tom has all the dimensions I have been told.
7.  Place each wing half on a flat board and weight down the trailing edge (or clamp down using a full length piece of hardwood on top).  Add vertical shear webs to the trailing edge full length and to the high point of the wing spars out about 5 bays.  After this the wing will now be straight and locked in straight.
8.  Join the wing halves in the same manner on the flat board per typical foam wing joining (I use masking tape to join and then lay the whole thing on a flat board and weight it down until the joint is dry.  DO NOT USE THE JOINERS!!! Glass the wing joint after gluing with 1" glass tape as per foam wing (go right over the bellcrank mount and nut).  After installing the wing in the fusealge use several layers of 3/4 oz glass faired out out (larger to smaller and smaller) at the cradle joints (some carbon tow inline to the fuselage over the joint might be even better). 
9.  Take the unfinished stab and note if it is flat.  If not, give one coat of Polycrylic and wait until it tacks off (it will take about an hour or less).  Place on teflon sheet, wax paper, or old Monokote backing on a flat board and place non stick surface on top.  Weigh the whole thing down.  Let it dry a week.  When you remove the stab it will be hard as a rock and flat as a board.  Finish as normal with whatever you like.  If you use film you may have to put a few coats of Balsarite over the PC.  Do not film on the PC, especially high temp film.  All other paints will stick great to PC.
10.  Re-bend new gear wires from US music wire to suit my propeller size.
11.  Use Dave Brown nylon engine mounts, or better yet OS Max aluminum mounts.  Use Sullivan hard 6 or 8 OZ tank only.  Cock the tank a minimum of 1/4".  Mount the tank as far inboard as possible.  I use velcro to mount the tank.
12.  Glass the nose 3" past leading edge with 3/4 oz glass.  Do two layers on cowl hole.  WRAP THE GLASS ALL THE WAY AROUND TO THE INSIDE OF THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT.  This is for the finger abuse the nose opening takes choking the engine.  It is not for strength.
13.  I would really like to get a magnet cowl retaining system like Bob Branch used for his electric but I am not sure this would work for IC engines.
14.  Cover all open bays with SLC film.  The film only needs to be about 3/4" larger than the open bay.
15.  Cover whole plane in 1/2A silkpan and nitrate dope (I might use Sig Plyspan again, it is so smooth).
16.  Spray two coats of nitrate with zinc stearate from Randy Smith and a little talc.  Sand.
17.  Use one coat of Sherwin Williams Ultra Fil on spots that appear to have trouble (fillets and such).
18.  Paint to preference.

That's about it.  Not a lot of work or extra expense really.  Should add about an extra 2 oz.  I see no need for other mods.

PS:  If you do not accurately measure the CG you cannot trim the plane. Period.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 12:22:37 PM »
I see a cottage industry possibility here.  I would be willing to pay for those changes to be made.   y1
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 12:48:38 PM »
Would like to note I did sand my flaps before sheeting them, used the rod method to take 1/32 off each side. Wasn't much and didn't take long but it made the sheeted flaps the same thickness as the wing trailing edge. Didn't sand the elevators other than to make sure they were flat as they were already thinner than the stab.

I used a little foam roller from Wal-Mart (paint dpt) to apply finishing epoxy to the bones of the flaps and elevators. Mixed up the epoxy and smeared it on the foam with a throw away epoxy brush. Roll the flap skeleton then place it on the sheeting and weight it down. When its cured do the other side. The foam roller applies the epoxy evenly and only where needed. I used 4 of the rollers (buy extra rollers) to do mine, had just enough time to do one flap and one elevator side per batch of epoxy. My flaps and elevators are straight as a string and stiff as a board.

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 01:03:39 PM »
I use Gorilla glue for all sheeting.  No mixing, is lighter, and glues like steel even if you think there is no glue there.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 02:28:55 PM »
I use Gorilla glue for all sheeting.  No mixing, is lighter, and glues like steel even if you think there is no glue there.

When I sheet the wings for my Genesis for nostalgia 30 I will try the Gorilla glue.  Its got to be less messy than finishing resin...
Steve

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 02:49:42 PM »
Would think the rollers would work just as well with Gorilla glue. Thought about using it but knew I was going to need to sand the outside edges and haven't had much luck sanding Gorilla glue. The finish resin sanded great and because it only has a thin coat, only where needed doubt weight is an issue. Besides I had to add 2 ounces of lead weight to the tail of the ARF I put together, a little weight to add strong and stiff behind the CG won't hurt a thing.

Dave Adamisin

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 08:26:43 PM »
Hi Brad. Wonderfully comprehensive list. I trust them cause they come from the designs daddy. Thanks. I've been talking to Big about getting one for the Evo 60.

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 08:19:30 PM »
Steve,

Definitely go for the Gorilla Glue.  I used it to sheet an SV-11 Wing that i'm going to use in my Excelsior.  Hopefully, I can get it done before the end of next year...ugh... HB~>   HB~>   n~   LL~

Jim Pollock 

Willis Swindell

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 01:38:00 PM »
Brad I would do one more slight change. Move the line slider at least a 1/4 inch forward. I have my lines all the way forward and I think I need to move them further forward. This will be my next project.
Willis

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 01:42:52 PM »
Brad I would do one more slight change. Move the line slider at least a 1/4 inch forward. I have my lines all the way forward and I think I need to move them further forward. This will be my next project.
Willis

Wow! A new way to adjust your leadouts! S?P

Did you guys fly today?
Steve

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 05:01:51 PM »
Brad I would do one more slight change. Move the line slider at least a 1/4 inch forward. I have my lines all the way forward and I think I need to move them further forward. This will be my next project.
Willis

Not to pick, but where is the CG Willis????

It should be located at approximately 7 to 7.25" from the trailing edge.  The lead outs would be approximately 1" behind that.  The slider is adequate for that adjustment.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Willis Swindell

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 05:55:10 PM »
Brad
Just checked my T-rex. The balance point is 7 1/2 inches. Like I said “I think” as it crosses the circle. I’ll let you know soon. LL~
Willis

Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2010, 11:29:53 PM »
Hi Bradley,

You mentioned bending new LG using USA music wire. I need longer gear for my 14" prop and rough high grass field.

1. Where can we get USA MW, the LHS stuff is "weak" ;-)  What brand is the good stuff?

2. What dia. do you recommend for a rough grass field?

TIA
Rudy
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Willis Swindell

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 01:04:19 PM »
Ok Brad I added i/2 oz weight to the tail it moved the CG back to 7 inches  put the lead out back to where they were and give this a try first.
Willis

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 03:06:41 PM »
Ok Brad I added i/2 oz weight to the tail it moved the CG back to 7 inches  put the lead out back to where they were and give this a try first.
Willis

If your CG is at 7 inches (very good) then the leadouts will fall between 6.25" and 6".
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline jim welch

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 06:20:34 PM »
Great info Brad..just checked my arf tiger 51 it's 7 1/4 cg and leadouts 6 1/4 ...flys perfect.Checked my piped arc (p 47) and its definatly nose heavy by a mile.It's gonna get a tail weight box asap and that sure answers one of my trimming issues I had with it.With all the glass and carbon reinforcement I built into the rear of it and the pipe tunnel reinforcement I built in I was floored by how nose heavy it was.The arf will get its 100 flight star this weekend and the arc will certainly get closer to the sweet spot on the trim chart. thanks for those numbers ( from a dummie who had not a clue as to the real cg on the rex) Jimmy
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Willis Swindell

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2010, 06:09:16 PM »
Brad
You were right.  I finally got to fly today with the CG at 7 inches what a difference it turns on a dime and I had to move the lead outs back a hair to 6 1/2 inches. the weight  has crept up to 66 oz. but that doesn’t seem to effect any thing . Now to get practicing for Huntersville.
Willis

Offline Warren Leadbeatter

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2010, 06:12:52 PM »
Something in the photo doesnt look right.  There are 3 models sitting inside the flying circle???
Warren Leadbeatter
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Offline jim welch

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2010, 06:43:12 PM »
We take off on the asphault and immediately back up and fly over the grass and land on the grass.That little tree in the background precludes landing back at point  of take off.Almost everyone misses buzzing the pits by heading backwards immediately on take off. Jimmy
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Offline Garf

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2010, 08:21:16 PM »
I use Gorilla glue for all sheeting.  No mixing, is lighter, and glues like steel even if you think there is no glue there.
I'll let you know what I think of Gorilla glue later. I'm using it to assemble a built up profile fuselage for my latest creation. The only epoxy is on the hardwood engine mounts. http://hangarflying.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wire&action=display&thread=3429

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2010, 08:40:23 PM »
 I honestly don't want to "burst any bubbles" so to speak, but I just have to mention this here. I really do hope that future production T-Rex's are better than the one ARC that I've helped a friend work on recently. To try to be fair, it is the only one I've got experience with so far. This one though, (and I'm being nice) is absolute crap.  A very neat design and all, but this particular one has MANY significant construction flaws and wood quality issues that need fixing. To Brodak's credit however, they were contacted about the issues and were very helpful in a form of settlement.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2010, 09:42:47 AM »
I honestly don't want to "burst any bubbles" so to speak, but I just have to mention this here. I really do hope that future production T-Rex's are better than the one ARC that I've helped a friend work on recently. To try to be fair, it is the only one I've got experience with so far. This one though, (and I'm being nice) is absolute crap.  A very neat design and all, but this particular one has MANY significant construction flaws and wood quality issues that need fixing. To Brodak's credit however, they were contacted about the issues and were very helpful in a form of settlement.

Well, I am not really sure why you thought you needed to post this, but I will respond since John does not frequent the boards.

It is obvious that faulty construction in this model is certainly the exception to the rule (and I am not really sure the level of your expectation from a $150 ARF/ARC---You may feel it should surpass the finest scratch built models, I do not know)....  and as to the work being "crap", that is not a word I have heard before in relation to this model...  but I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

I also find it interesting that you explain that John was helpful in the form of settlement, but really did not go into it.  Did he give a new one?  A full refund?

I f

"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2010, 05:38:26 PM »
 Brad,

 The "bubbles" comment was not directed at anyone personally, just a simple comment. I just thought that it should be mentioned that we got ahold of a bad one out here, that's all. I saved all the details, but if you would prefer that I post them just let me know.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2010, 05:47:50 AM »
Come on guys, ease up.  In all my years of building/assembling kits I also have run into a bad one.  It comes with all mass production.  Nothing like having two identical kits to build and one uses twice as much glue because of the brittle wood and also replacing some of the wood in the bad kit. Only company I complained to Goldberg on a kit that did not have any ribs and one other kit missing four ribs,  won't mention his name as he more than gladly made up for the oversight.  I am still waiting on the 40 size T-Rex. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2010, 08:50:22 AM »
 I know Doc, Thanks.  H^^
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Brian Massey

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Re: Getting Serious with the T-Rex
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2010, 11:41:41 AM »
I don't have a T-Rex, but there are now 3 in our club, two of which are E-powered. What I have noticed, they have all required a trim tab on the outboard wing to get it down. Other than that they seem to fly well.

Brian
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