News:



  • June 27, 2025, 02:06:48 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: NATS - - What If  (Read 6399 times)

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22978
NATS - - What If
« on: July 16, 2007, 09:52:21 AM »
I have a question after seeing all the complaint about the conditions, wind and location of the NATS.  What if the AMA and sport flyers get their way and discontinue the NATS.  Maybe they could get back into the black on the account books.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RC Storick

  • Forum owner
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12564
  • The finish starts with the first piece of wood cut
    • Stunt Hangar
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 10:04:15 AM »
How do you figure Doc?  at $85.00 a head and at least a 100 entry's wouldn't they be loosing 8500? They are on site anyway doing what all year? Sounds like a loose situation to me.. and that's just 322..
AMA 12366

Offline Dick Fowler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 487
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 12:18:02 PM »
I have a question after seeing all the complaint about the conditions, wind and location of the NATS.  What if the AMA and sport flyers get their way and discontinue the NATS.  Maybe they could get back into the black on the account books.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday


I'll repeat myself... WOW!

How in the world do you come to the conclusion that "Sports Flyers" want to discontinue the NATS. The average Sports Flyer  dosn't even attend the NATS so they couldn't care less.
Dick Fowler AMA 144077
Kent, OH
Akron Circle Burners Inc. (Note!)
North Coast Control Liners Size 12 shoe  XXL Supporter

Offline Bill Gruby

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1488
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 12:55:48 PM »
I have a question after seeing all the complaint about the conditions, wind and location of the NATS.  What if the AMA and sport flyers get their way and discontinue the NATS.  Maybe they could get back into the black on the account books.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday


I don't have a clue how you came up with that question "Doc"? I am a "Sport Flier", and outside of being happy for the winners and those of you that go there, the thought of doing away with the "NATS" has never crossed my mind. Why in the world would I want to do away with something that does not bother me in one way or the other? You lost me?

   "Billy G"
Bill Gruby
AMA 94433
MECA 5393-10

Offline Paul Smith

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6127
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 01:27:29 PM »
According to AMA, there's a "sport flyer" faction who claims that their dues might go down if AMA dropped all competition spending.

Personally, I'm a competator, and maybe my dues would go down if AMA quit wasting money trying to appeeze sport flyers.

In reality, sport flyers can fly at Muncie any time there's no contest, FOR FREE.

This whole competition vs sport flyer bidness is probably just "divide & conquer" propaganda, designed to answer some background chatter about dues.

$58 a year is still a good deal to be a member of the "Muncie Flying Club".

Paul Smith

Offline peabody

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 02:22:02 PM »
Actually, the fee that the Academy charges is about half of the entry fee....the rest goes to the SIG that runs the event....
In P.A., that amounts to around $3600.00 (based upon $45 X 80 entries...beginner and Intermediate don't count, as they are not "official" Nats events....the $10.00 administration fee charged by the AMA to attend those events, or to spectate, seems fair enough.....

Offline Tom Perry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 424
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2007, 02:29:42 PM »
I have a question after seeing all the complaint about the conditions, wind and location of the NATS.  What if the AMA and sport flyers get their way and discontinue the NATS.  Maybe they could get back into the black on the account books.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

 S?P S?P S?P S?P S?P S?P S?P S?P S?P   LL~ LL~
Tight lines,

Tom Perry
 Norfolk, Virginia

Offline Rudy Taube

  • Ret Flyboy
  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 974
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2007, 03:34:00 PM »
Hi John,

SHORT VERSION:

Do you have any numbers to support your comments? Inquiring minds need to know.  n~

LONGER VERSION: .... EDITORIAL, .... CAUTION, Read at your own risk  S?P

As a long time opponent to having an AMA site located in the NE part of the USA with WX that limits flying to less than 1/2 the year, and marginal WX the rest of the year, I would be pleased if you had numbers showing that the AMA nats at Brown's private flying field costs all the members money. I hope those that supply us with the AMA's numbers are honest enough to include the full cost and maintenance of the land in their accounting. The rational for this land is ONLY for the AMA nats. That is how it was sold to the NATIONAL membership who paid for it. So that expense (other than the admin offices) should be borne by the NE annual contest, AKA nats.  

As to the comment that the field is open to AMA members for free, that is absurd. It is a NE field and should be paid for by those in the NE, not the rest of us who will never drive the 2,000+ miles to fly there. That is like me saying any AMA member is welcome to fly at our flying field (which they are), and then asking all AMA members to pay for the purchase and maintenance of our club field.  n1

In the scheme of things, this is still a minor matter. The AMA dues are still a very good deal for the insurance alone. This insurance is critical in our quest to maintain flying sites on both private and public land throughout the country. The magazine is excellent, and the administration of our contests and rules is invaluable to those of us who compete in the many different parts of our hobby. I am a big fan of the AMA.

With the above said, it is still a thorn in my, and many others, side that Dave and his NE cronies picked a NE site for the AMAs only flying site. And then glued the Nats there.  HB~>

I do understand that this is a very difficult issue. There are several parts to the problem. One is having a regional NE contest and calling it a "Nats". And the second is making it permenant.  The third is having the audacity to put our only site in the very poor WX of the NE. Again, I am aware that this is a difficult issue to resolve. In fact, with all the money already spent, it may be a lost cause for all of us outside the NE part of the country.

After all is said and done, we may be stuck with this situation, and must learn to live with it. If John comes up with numbers showing that the NE nats do not cover all their costs, then we should all work toward getting the books balanced on this NE event. The rest of the country, especially the sport flyers, should NOT have to subsidize those of us who choose to compete. This is true of a local club event, or the NE regional (aka nats).

One solution is already taking place. That is to have large regional events like the VSC, NW regional, Brodaks, the Palmer in CA, the big events in the SE, etc. These events will continue to grow in stature and size and maybe the NE regional will then someday really be called what they are, the NE regional.  y1

As an active CD for the past 30+ years, I believe that contests should make money, or at the very least always pay their own way. This is true at the local club level on up. I think this is why John asked his original question. It will be interesting to hear from John on this subject.

For the two people who have read this far, thank you for your patience.

Regards,   H^^



Rudy
AMA 1667

Offline Bill Little

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12668
  • Second in COMMAND
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2007, 03:51:58 PM »
Rudy,

I do not consider Indiana a NE state.  Midwest is more like it to me.  Are yu sayin North East with the "NE"?  I am in the SE technically (actually the Middle Atlantic) and to me New England, (NY, NJ, MA, Conn. etc.,) is NE.

It is a long way for anyone not in the Midwest, that's for sure and I agree the weather is always bad, or so it seems, especially the wind and rain.

Neverthe less, the NATS are the NATS.  If you really want to be the National Champion, and you have dedicated yourself to that, you will make the trip.  Look at Paul, David, Brett, Ted, who are thousands of miles away, but have won since the NATS were moved to Muncie.  Now add Orestes who is in Miami.  Geez.... you can't GET to Muncie from Miami, you have to go somewhere else first!! **)
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Bill Gruby

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1488
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2007, 04:07:15 PM »
Rudy;

 I have to agree with Bill Little. I live in the "NE" that is Bristol,Connecticut. Muncie,Indiana is 791.72 miles from me. How does that make it "NE". Am I missing something here. I did not know the "NE" stretched that far. Yes it is a lot closer that the West Coast folks, but guess what, I still don't particularly care to go there. Just me nickels worth.

 "Billy G"

PS. You are welcome I am one of the two that read your post.   S?P
Bill Gruby
AMA 94433
MECA 5393-10

Steve Kientz

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2007, 04:13:40 PM »
  Hoosiers are very proud of the fact we are part of the Midwest. Yes we have unpredictable weather,but shouldn't champion caliber flyers be able to cope with weather changes? i know 20mph winds are severe, but I don't think we had them this year. I was at Muncie on 7/13/07 and heard a competitor say they wished for stronger winds to even the the odds. That shows some one who is confident in their equipment and ability. Thats what the Nats,or any other competition, is about,being the best at that time.

Oh,by the way, I'm a sportflyer and I go to the Nats every chance I get. I try and watch as many different competitions as possible,this year I spent several hours watching speed,I love those jets!!!!!

Offline Peter Nevai

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • C3EL
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2007, 05:41:15 PM »
I thik it would be more interesting if it moved around like the super bowl, but thats just me.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline Clint Ormosen

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2632
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2007, 06:11:09 PM »
It did move around before this stupid "National Flying Site" was built. I'm totally with Rudy on this. The average flyer from the West (like me) has little chance of ever going to Nats event that far away. I'd like to see where everyone that flew it this year is from. Yes, I know Paul, Brett, and David are from the left coast and I think it's great they have the opprotunity to attend. But I simply CANNOT up and leave my air conditioning business for a week in the middle of summer and spend a couple grand going to a model contest. Cost alone can keep a lot of compeditors away. It ticks me to have any of my AMA dues go to that site.
It's like paying for your neighbors Ferrari. HB~>

Sorry if this offends any of you guys from Indiana, but if they were going to build the site in Nevada, would you want to pay for it?
-Clint-

AMA 559593
Finding new and innovated ways to screw up the pattern since 1993

Offline Peter Nevai

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • C3EL
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2007, 07:14:23 PM »
Free labor by the Navy, hmm. Well then how about the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marines not having to foot all the bill, only donateing some space once a year? How long has it been since someone approached the armed services in this regard? But of course it would require some incentive for the base commander other than giving a bunch of old guys a place to play with thier toy airplanes once a year.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline peabody

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2007, 07:47:19 PM »
Stunt, as a stand alone event, could easily be held at different venues....the problem is that other control line events require paraphernalia other than score sheets, and some is expensive to move as well as purchase.

Racing and speed require fences and nets that meet the Academy's standards, as well as room.....

I have long been a proponent of holding stunt Nats at alternate sites when the FAI Team Trails are in Muncie......alternating corners of the US, and throw Texas or somewhere else hot into the rotation every 5th off site cycle.

Let local clubs or coalitions stage the events.


Offline Dennis Moritz

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2485
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2007, 08:33:23 PM »
The NATs is great. Has an edge to it, which I like, differs from the Fly-in. But I love the Fly-in. Wouldn't mind a month at the Fly-in. Here's an observation from a new Intermediate pilot. Although the winds in Muncie seems fierce, it is almost always directional, going one way. Most adjust to the wind conditions and fly pretty well. Biasing maneuvers, expecting wind-up, also they're sure to fly tip top when the wind abates momentarily. A few of the top finishers didn't need second flights during the top 20 elimination, putting in killer flights earlier in the day, when wind conditions tended to be milder. No doubt the skilled experienced pilots have a sack full of moves to draw on when taming the big time gusts.

Offline Paul Smith

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6127
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 08:53:43 PM »
I thik it would be more interesting if it moved around like the super bowl, but thats just me.

There are hundreds of football fields.  Moving the Spuerbowl is easy, even if it's limited to indoor and southern venues.

You won't find another Muncie-class model field anywhere.   
Better to build airplanes that can handle real-world weather.
Paul Smith

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22978
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 07:42:49 AM »
No I do not have numbers to back up any of the original I made.  It is just what I have read in magazines, forums and at different contests.  I can still remember when the NATS was looked forward to by many people.  Mainly to just rub elbows with the top of the class and maybe get lucky once in awhile.  Most of the guys/gals I fly with will not even drive too far for a local contest(local being within 200 miles).  The RC people I deal with are the biggest complainers about why we have the NATS.  Look at Model Aviation, it used to have one issue devoted to the NATS.  The sport flyers complained, now no coverage.  I get jumped on when I complain that entry fees are too high.  One combat entrant stated that they had an F2D meet in Florida with over 20 competitors.  Only 4 at the NATS.  He also stated that they came from Chicago and Texas to Florida.  Is there really an answer to the NATS problem other than find a corporate sponsor to take over.  Have Fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Keith Spriggs

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • khspriggs
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2007, 08:38:40 AM »
Almost all of us wish that the AMA headquarters was just down the road a couple of miles. Obviously that can not be. In a country of 3,537,441 square miles Muncie is located about 397 miles from the center of the population of the country. No matter where the headquarters are located only a very small percentage are going to be able to use the facility on a regular basis even though we all have to pay for it. I do not see many more viable options. You could eliminate the flying facilities altogether, but where would the Nats be held then? You could have more than one flying site, but you would still be paying for sites that were too far away for you to use. It would take 112 sites to get one within 200 miles from every member. Even with that 200 miles is quite a distance to drive for a days flying. Has anyone ever submitted an alternate Nats site to the AMAfor consideration. A site with all the necessary facilities and infra structure?

Offline Clancy Arnold

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1453
  • I am 5 Ft. 8 In., the Taube is 7 Ft. 4 In.
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2007, 08:59:00 AM »
For a refresher in history, I believe Muncie was the only city that submitted a bid for the AMA Flying site.  I  was involved  in the early discussions about holding a NATS  at Muncie and the local people were very interested.  Compare that to the reception we received at some of the other NATS sites. 

Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline don Burke

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1027
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2007, 03:13:06 PM »
About the comment above about "racing and speed require fences" another erronious statement.  Nothing in the AMA CL General Rules requires fences, there is a comment about field conduct when protective fences are not available, para 7, AMA CL General.
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Bill Gruby

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1488
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 03:36:30 PM »
  Please define "Sport Flier Faction" also define "Sport Flier" I am definately missing something here?
         
    "Billy G"  HB~>
Bill Gruby
AMA 94433
MECA 5393-10

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22978
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2007, 03:39:05 PM »
The fences are only required at the Speed and Racing circles in Muncie.  We have flown races in Wichita, Topeka, Denver, Dallas as well as other sites with no fencing for racing.  St Louis is the only site I know of that has a permanent fence for the speed flyers.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

PS:To the person that wanted to know, yes I am on the precision aerobatics control line contest board.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline peabody

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2007, 03:47:52 PM »
When speaking with Dave Brown and Steve Kaluf several years ago, hauling the fencing for Racing and Speed was cited as a major cost factor....

My guess is that they feel that fencing is necessary for a National Championship event.....

Offline Jim Thomerson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2087
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2007, 03:59:38 PM »
Cruising around the various RC forums suggests to me the following observations are factual.

The bulk of AMA members are casual RC fliers whose feelings range from not being interested in competition to being actively against competition.

A large number of AMA members are concerned only with "What can the AMA do for me personally?".  They see the Muncie site, the Nats, etc.  as a distraction and money hole which cut down on what the AMA can do for me, who does not care to go to Muncie. 

My own guess is that knowledgable AMA members, including our leadership, understand the value of competition, but are constrained by the attitudes of the membership. 

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3391
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2007, 04:06:46 PM »


(clip)
  St Louis is the only site I know of that has a permanent fence for the speed flyers.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

(clip)


Doc,

Whittier Narrows in the LA area has a fenced, paved circle suitable for speed and the racing events.  It is on the same paved area as two other circles and there is enough area around it for any number of grass circles.  It is a nice facility, but wind in any direction causes problems.  It is not a fun place to fly with any kind of wind.  But with the weather of Southern California, you can fly there any time of year.

There is also a tethered race car track there which I understand is one of the few left in the country.  The race car guys come out about once a month.  It is equipped with an electronic timer and a digital display.  The sound of those cars doing over 200 is a memorable experience.

Keith

Keith

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
  • AMA78415
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2007, 04:24:14 PM »
Hey Doc; Remember when they were looking at Hutchinson Ks. for the new AMA site? As I remember it, they held the team trials there for R/C pattern at about that time, and the wind was about 25 to 30 miles an hour. Some of the flyers from the no wind states refused to fly as they said they would crash. The guys from the planes states thought it was OK as we fly in this wind all the time. I think that was the end of the Hutch deal.
Jim Kraft

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22978
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2007, 07:19:39 PM »
Hey Jim, remember the beer can races down the runway?   Have fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Paul Smith

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6127
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2007, 09:44:45 PM »
Free labor by the Navy, hmm. Well then how about the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marines not having to foot all the bill, only donateing some space once a year? How long has it been since someone approached the armed services in this regard? .

In view of the ongoing Muslim War, terrorist attacks (not just threats), and homeland security issues, I doubt we will ever see free access to military bases again in our lifetimes. 

Thank God for the AMA facility in Muncie.

Forget the military.   
However, with all of our manufactured goods coming in from Red China, you could buy plenty of abandoned factories for cheap.
Paul Smith

Offline Dick Fowler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 487
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2007, 05:56:41 AM »
Just to add some "facts" to the discussion.

According to the 2006 AMA financial statements, the net costs in 2006 for the NATS was $33,130. That's for all disciplines including the RC, CL and Free-flight.
Not much per capita for competition.

Consider that the AMA affiliation with the FIA cost the AMA about $270,000 in 2006.

My point is that direct competition expenses are a very small part of the approx. $7,100,000 annual expenses of the AMA. If you want to cut costs I'd suggest something with more bang than this.


AMA Mission
The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a world-class association of modelers organized for the purpose of promotion, development, education, advancement and safeguard modeling activities.

The Academy provides leadership, organization, competition, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education, and scientific/technical development to modelers






Dick Fowler AMA 144077
Kent, OH
Akron Circle Burners Inc. (Note!)
North Coast Control Liners Size 12 shoe  XXL Supporter

Offline don Burke

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1027
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2007, 09:32:48 AM »
Nice idea to run the NATS in Calif.  But in the past the "NAVY BASE NATS" had the lowest attendance in Calif and the highest on the East Coast.  That was 40 years ago, my how time flies when you're having fun!
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Leo Mehl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1951
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2007, 09:41:05 PM »
I have a friend that lives very close to the Muncie site but he told me does not fly there because it is always windy. As far as location it is pretty much what you can afford to do. Tuscon is also a long ways to go but every year there seems to be more people there. Same with Brodaks fly in. The nats are the nats and it's always been the premier event in controline. If you are interested you will go no matter what. I have been to one nats in my lifetime. and as a 17 year old it has stayed sharp in my mind for seeing smelling and tasting of competition. I think it is the backbone of modeling and should be put into proper perspective for what it is. Of course I shall always love competition no matter how large or small,but most of all I like everyone of thecompetitors y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1

Offline Steve Helmick

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10265
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2007, 10:01:48 PM »
I read that PW was going to run the PA events at the NATS for the next 3 years. That was the first time I ever even considered going to a NATS...to help Paul. Getting out of sight of the Rocky Mountains (any mountains)... will be the real hurdle for me. And I'll have to retire rich, somehow...well, so much for that pipe dream.  LL~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Mike Danford

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2007, 09:58:01 AM »
The issue seems to be banged around, but not addressed.  Is it just too weird to consider moving the stunt portion to some of the other well established venues like Brodak's, VSC, SIG (perhaps too close), Whittier...?  There's lots of places large enough, with well enough established organic assets to conduct the stunt portion of the NATS.

I don't see a lot of the other disciplines complaining much.  However, stunt is a significant portion of CL interest, perhaps it should be moved around to garner a more representative national champion.  Heck, even changing the time of year it's held in Muncie would a positive move in that direction.  I used to fly CL in the snow and during the winter as a kid in the midwest, any national level competitor should be able to as well. 

I don't look at this as a conditions consideration, but rather making it as accessible as possible.  For example, my dad owned a boat marina as a kid.  I couldn't go to a summer contest if it were 100 miles away.  Lots of cases like this. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that "someone" feels Muncie SHOULD have the nats, just because.  Silly thinking.  Also, I'm talking about alternate locations, not necessarily having the nats at the already established VSC, Brodak (where ever) times.  Unless that's better, it just needs to be seriously considered. 

Also, this is ALL semantics.  The national champion cl flyer is that because a definition says so.  The definition says the guy who wins at the Muncie summer contest is that.  We could just say that the national champion is the guy who wins Brodak on even years, and Muncie on odd years.  It's all kind of silly in a way.

Honestly, I don't care what any definition says about how I fly.  I do it for fun, when I can, and properly prioritized with my other obligations (read family and job... whatever).  I do it as good as I can and go on about my life.  I consider the AMA dues a "tax" to enable me to compete at the couple contests I do attend.  That's all.  No different than a stupid fishing license.  I need an out of state license to fish 20 miles north, but a instate license to fish 6 hours south... whatever.  But NEVER need a license to fish in the most productive lake I know in Texas (because it's privately owned).

So, it's a fair question.  I think it's also fair to say the Nats are essentially a Midwest regional contest.  Why don't we just sanction certain events and add the points up for a national champion?  There's lots of solutions, the goal is for folks to get over pride in ownership that prevents considering other's points of view and relinquishing paradigms.

Tools


Offline Tom Perry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 424
Re: NATS - - What If
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2007, 05:24:18 PM »
The indoor free flight NATS are held in a different state.  Probably because it is a much better flying sight, for free flight,   than they have near Muncie.

Just food for thought.  H^^
Tight lines,

Tom Perry
 Norfolk, Virginia


Advertise Here
Tags: