Fuel mixing advice

[George Grossardt]

So I am going to try mixing up some fuel myself.  I have a few questions for those of you who have done this.

1.  I am getting the methanol locally.  What type of container is best for storing it (5 gallons)?
2.  Any handling concerns? I plan to use nitrile gloves and have a mask on.  What about material transfer from one container to another?
3.  I plan to mix up the ingredients and fill gallon jugs all at once.  What is the best sequence for mixing the ingredients?
4.  Any other advice?

I am probably over thinking this.  Thanks in advance for your input.

George

[Phil Spillman]

Buy a 5 gallon plastic gas can at Home DePot or Lowes, other store if you could find a steel can, Mix all ingredients in the large can, buy a large funnel, pour completed mixture into your gallon jugs! Store all bottles in a cardboard bottle, keeps all containers dark,. You're done! Gloves and mask as you may wish but I've been doing this sort of thing for 70 years and have never found the need for this degree of precaution!

Phil Spillman 

PS: As you become more adventurous in your fuel mixing endeavors you may find a large and small graduated cylinder beneficial for fine work.

[frank mccune]

     To add what Phill has stated, I found it highly advantageous to do all of my mixing using Metric measurements!

     Good luck,

      Frank McCune

[Jim Hoffman]

I’ve been mixing my own for decades

I avoid plastic containers for storing methanol, I prefer metal jugs.  I have had methanol go bad by picking up moisture in plastic containers.  I buy methanol in 5 gallon lots and store in metal 1 gallon containers.  This permits all the cans, but one, to be full without air. 

Store in a temperature controlled environment

I work in metric also.

Nice to be able to mix small quantities, like a pint, for tests and experiments.

Good luck it’s worth the effort.

[Brett Buck]

I’ve been mixing my own for decades

I avoid plastic containers for storing methanol, I prefer metal jugs.  I have had methanol go bad by picking up moisture in plastic containers.  I buy methanol in 5 gallon lots and store in metal 1 gallon containers.  This permits all the cans, but one, to be full without air. 

Store in a temperature controlled environment

I work in metric also.

Nice to be able to mix small quantities, like a pint, for tests and experiments.

Good luck it’s worth the effort.

  Where are you getting nitro?

   Brett

[George Grossardt]

  Where are you getting nitro?

   Brett

Hyperfuels  has one gallon quantities for sale.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

"Back in the day" - as the saying goes - I formulated and mixed fuels in 55 gallon drums.  Sold many 5 gallon cans to clubs, for a few years sold pints to gallons in hobby shops in MN, Iowa, North & South Dakota ...

Yes, methanol loves to soak up water.  But a warning about the toxicity of methanol: it tends to be cumulative.  What you absorb today adds to what you picked up last year and the year before that and ...  DO NOT get it in your eyes.

Have fun - it's great blending exactly what YOU want - but please be safe!

Dennis

[Dan McEntee]

  I have not ever mixed my own fuel but I remember in reading about it on the forums that it does make a difference how you mix it, what component you add to what, and what you mix first. Maybe that ought to be covered. If precise detail can be given and verified, this should be pinned to the top of the engine section along with all required warnings and cautions..
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Dave Harmon]

Most guys have different opinions of how to mix fuel. None are all correct and none are all wrong.
I have some of my own opinions of course but like others I have been mixing since 64'.

Generally I agree with Phil and Jim except I don't use metal cans for anything.
Over time the plating inside the can apparently is eaten away....especially if there is air inside.

To store alky I get the 5 gallon race bottles at the local speed shop. Perfectly sealed and last forever...take the bottle with you and they fill it up!

Never mix all 5 gallons at the same time. Mix 1 gallon at a time. If you make a mistake all 5 gallons are wrong instead of just 1 gallon.

There is no chemical sequence to pour the stuff into the 1 gallon bottle however, I like to measure and pour the nitro first, then the oil then fill the rest of the way (128oz) with alky.
The oil is poured after the nitro and coats the measuring cup, then rinse out with alky when pouring the rest of the alky.
I use a round coffee filter in the funnel after the oil in poured in. This will help keep trash out when adding nitro and alky.
I pour 1 gallon of alky into a clean bottle to use while mixing....this is much easier to handle than trying to pour out of a 5 gallon container.

The nitro will mix with everything once you get it all in the bottle...the nitro does not separate....at the nitro content we use.
It's possible the ingredients could stratify while pouring components into the bottle but shake it up good after everything is in there and it will be totally mixed.

Never use Armor-All. It has silicone in it.
It causes a glass like probably silicone coating on the plug wire and over a short time will cause a bad run....yeah, yeah I know....."I use it all the time and never had a bad run". Ever look at your plug or just toss it when it craps out??

One thing that I've been doing all along is to add 1oz acetone per gallon of mixed fuel. The engines are a bit easier to start especially if there is a large castor or total oil content....definitely add it if 20% or more oil content.
I used to use propylene oxide but it's too hard to get anymore.

I've been mixing GMA and use acetone it it too.
Richard Oliver advised me how to mix the Rojett preferred mix and it runs great with acetone as well.

[Phil Spillman]

I've had an additional thought about moving the liquids from here to there! I have found that pouring large quantities of fluid from one container to another is a open invitation to spill and therefore loose precious stuff! I have used an electric pump available at Home Depot for about $15.00 or so to move liquids from one container to another. these pumps run on two D Cells and are encapsulated so as to not spark! I use one of these pumps to pump gasoline into my cars from 5 gallon containers! No heavy lifting and no spills!

[Steve Helmick]

You're supposed to add the oil to the alcohol (or alcohol to the oil) and then add the nitro and any other stuff. Especially important if you use castor oil. Castor mixes well with alcohol and not so much with nitro. I've never mixed over 75% nitro fuel, lots of 65% nitro fuel, a fair amount of 40% and very little less than that. I mixed some no-nitro for Gary Gingerich's Retro, and he said it ran fine...used it at NWCL Regionals 2 years in a row...same plastic jug.   

[PaulGibeault]

I did a comprehensive DIY guide to fuel blending. It can be found going to the website:  Coxengines.ca  I wish you good luck.  Cheers, Paul

https://coxengines.ca/files/Gibeault.pdf

[Dan McEntee]

I did a comprehensive DIY guide to fuel blending. It can be found going to the website:  Coxengines.ca  I wish you good luck.  Cheers, Paul

https://coxengines.ca/files/Gibeault.pdf

     This is one of those posts that needs to be pinned somewhere so it is easy to find. This can fit in on the engine forum and the 1/2A forum also.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Wayne Collier]

So, out of curiosity, how does Klotz synthetic compare to Stihl or Huskvarna 50:1 oil?

[BillP]

Klotz specs say compatible with methanol. I run Stihl Ultra in my Stihl 2 strokes and nowhere can I find it being compatible with methanol. I also run BelRay synthetics (MC1 & HR) in other 2 strokes and they state NOT compatible with methanol.  Probably the same as most 2 stroke oils meant for gas engines.

[Brett Buck]

Klotz specs say compatible with methanol. I run Stihl Ultra in my Stihl 2 strokes and nowhere can I find it being compatible with methanol. I also run BelRay synthetics (MC1 & HR) in other 2 strokes and they state NOT compatible with methanol.  Probably the same as most 2 stroke oils meant for gas engines.

    Most but not all. George Aldrich used to make fuel using some 50:1 oil that happened to be soluble in methanol, but as is typical of any "oil experts", which kind was a super-big secret never to be revealed. One might guess it was from motorcycle or snowmobile racing  series that used methanol pre-mix, but I asked and he wouldn't tell me what it was or where he got it.

     I ran his fuel, it ran OK, and had nearly no oily mess as you would expect, and it smelled funny.  But, it didn't work any better than anything else, regular model fuel seems to work perfectly well, and there's no real advantage to anything else, at least for stunt.

    Brett