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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Paul Smith on June 02, 2008, 07:45:32 PM
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As mentioned elsewhere, we get our nitromethane from Red China and they've shut down the chemical plants for a while to head off protests during the Summer Olympics in Peking.
I'm not making this stuff up, it was discussed at length on the drag racing show Sunday. The NHRA is down to 400 40-gallon drums, which they hope, will get them through the summer season - for the MAJOR events.
It may be a long while before any new model fuel is made, unless some of the blenders have layed in a good stockpile.
I checked The Prop Shop in Centerline, Michigan today. They have about 100 gallons of various fuels on hand. Probably not your favorite brand (or mine), but this is no time to be chosey. PowerMist, Omega, Byron, Cool Power, etc. No Sig, Fox, Cox ,or K&B. Still, probably quite usable with few ounces of castor to be on the safe side.
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that is what I heard while watch INDY...amazing huh? ~^
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Now I will get worried if they shut down their Lipo factories--oh yeah, I already have enough batteries for this summer~ y1
(and actually I have gallons of fuel too---I bet we are swimming in mega-gallons of stockpiled nitro-laced fuel. Time to use it up!)
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If I have to Mix my own fuel is this the right formula? 6.5 oz Nitro + 25.5 oz oils + 96 oz Alcohol = 20% oil 5% Nitro?
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Yes Robert -- Those are the numbers I came up with, but I'm no expert here. 96 ozs of Methanol -- 26.5 ozs of Nitro and 6.5 ozs of oil.
"Billy G"
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I hope you're joking, Bill, and I hope Robert gets it...20% nitro, 5% oil?
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Bill,
time to put a leash on Oswald and Latimore again, they are stirring up the works
each percent of a gallon is 1.28 oz
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I heard a lot of industrial activity in China is shutting down - not to ward off the protests but to get the air pollution levels down to a showcaseable level prior to the Olympics.
I should have a stock of fuel to get me through the summer. I'm having a tough time getting a 1320mAH LiPo pack though... Transportation systems also took a hit in China with the earthquake and now some flooding.
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You guys are sharp today, I got them bass akwards. LOL Sorry Robert. Nice catch Ray. Mark Oswald and Latumore are still in their cages.
"Billy G"
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Easier way to mix.
Mark bottle at 100 ounces.
For 20% oil, 5% nitro, add 20 ounces of oil, 5 ounces of Nitro and fill to mark with methanol.
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It's interesting that no one in the world except the Chinese makes nitro. How does that happen?
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It's interesting that no one in the world except the Chinese makes nitro. How does that happen?
Price, price, price
The same reason no one makes televisions or consumer electronics here.
The cost of production over there is very low.
Here, no one wants to live next to a petrochemical plant, and cost for the environmental, studies, safe guards, insurance and licenses are very high here, and low in china.
The last US supplier for NHRA pulled out last year. More expensive than importing it.
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I mix all of my fuel. The company I get nitro from has plenty in stock; however, their price in the last 8 months has doubled. A gallon of Nitro now cost $95.00 plus $20.00 hazmat plus $20.00 shipping. A 5 gal drum is $430 plus $20.00 hazmat plus $45.00 shipping. I order the 5 gal drum; however may invest in 53 gal drum. Does anyone need some nitro?
http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/category.aspx?categoryID=142
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"For 20% oil, 5% nitro, add 20 ounces of oil, 5 ounces of Nitro and fill to mark with methanol."
I have never done mixing any way except as the mentioned, but, there was a recent discussion of what happens when fuel is mixed on the CL speed Forum. Their position is that mixing in that manner will not get the right percentages because of absortion of the oil by the methanol. If the oil is put in the container first, there will be more than desired methanol, if the methanol is put in first there will be less oil than expected. They suggest measuring the methanol and other things in seperate containers then mixing with the oil. The percentages may be small but those guys really worry about things like that.
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"...because of absortion of the oil by the methanol..."
shudda been "absorption", sorry. Darned fingers don't always enter what I really think I did!
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"For 20% oil, 5% nitro, add 20 ounces of oil, 5 ounces of Nitro and fill to mark with methanol."
I have never done mixing any way except as the mentioned, but, there was a recent discussion of what happens when fuel is mixed on the CL speed Forum. Their position is that mixing in that manner will not get the right percentages because of absortion of the oil by the methanol. If the oil is put in the container first, there will be more than desired methanol, if the methanol is put in first there will be less oil than expected. They suggest measuring the methanol and other things in seperate containers then mixing with the oil. The percentages may be small but those guys really worry about things like that.
HI Don
They are not correct, doesn't matter if the oil is put in first or last, 5% will still be an exact 5%, The oil and methanol mix together the same either way.
Regards
Randy
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I've used nothing but Rich's Brew from Rich's Hobbies in Texas since 1990, call Randy at 713-661-5458 and he'll mix whatever you want. He's so reasonable in price that I quit mixing my own back then. (Of course, he delivers mine to the Toledo show so I don't pay any shipping.) I can't tell you he has plenty of nitro, but give him a try if you need to. (Tell him Will sent you.)
Blessings,
Will
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Randy, there is bound to be some heat of solution when you mix the oil and nitro, so the final volume of the two will not be exactly correct. But you're probably right that it doesn't make much difference. Both nitro and oils are less polar than methanol, so I'd be surprised if the volume change would be more than a 1 percent or so.
DuPont and Dow both make nitromethane, and there was one other plant in Texas, at least up until a few years ago. It might have closed down, who knows. DuPont and Dow use virtually all the nitro for paint solvents, and in other industrial chemicals. The fuel market, even the with funny cars, etc., is probably too small to bother with.
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I've used nothing but Rich's Brew from Rich's Hobbies in Texas since 1990, call Randy at 713-661-5458 and he'll mix whatever you want. He's so reasonable in price that I quit mixing my own back then. (Of course, he delivers mine to the Toledo show so I don't pay any shipping.) I can't tell you he has plenty of nitro, but give him a try if you need to. (Tell him Will sent you.)
I like doing business with Randy, but I can make a full case last a long time now, what with poor flying site access (soccer fields, very early in the AM, and off season), I fly a lot less now. I was a customer when his dad Dickie was running the shop, but I'm not sure Randy will be in the best shape for Nitro right now (I haven't spoken to him in maybe six months) -- the folks at Power Master are hurting, that's for sure.
I went ahead and stocked up locally, passing the word on the fuel situation to the two hobby dealers I trade with here, and neither one was up to date, although one had gotten word from Power Master that he should stock up, although they wouldn't have much to offer him for awhile.
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Sounds like we are going to have to retune our engines. If the Europeans can fly with no nitro fuels, why can't we? Have fun, DOC Holliday
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No nitro makes the engine a lot more sensitive to compression ratio. Usually requires higher compression, although for PA and sport applications not much difference would be seen except for a smaller band of needle settings. With no nitro and no compression increase it's harder to keep the fire lit!
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I have recently taken delivery of 2 quarts of nitro from an internet dealer, then today I came across a dealer at the local R/C clubs flea market with 6 quarts of nitro. I took 3 for $20.00. He doesn't seem too concerned.