What is it and how old?

[Perry Rose]

I was given this half built plane but don't know what model it is. I figure the flap arrangement should be a giant clue. 53 inch span about 600 square inches in area.

[Dan McEntee]

   Maybe a Go-devil? Bob Palmer flew those I think, and so did Geaorge Aldrich early on?? Going on foggy memory.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[James Lee]

Definately a Go Devil.
Mine has an Atwood Super Champion sparker.
thanks
Jim
PS you might want to redo the center section sheeting     

[Perry Rose]

Thanks guys. That is a big hole in the sheeting.

[Trostle]

In an extensive article in the Aeromodeller Control Line Manual first published in 1961, Ron Moulton chronicled the evolution of the control line aerobatic model.  Moulton states that the fist application of wing flaps to a stunt model was suggested in a sketch by one H.W. Thomas in the February 1948 issue of Model airplane news.  Then, Moulton states that in 1948,  Bob Palmer was the first to use them.  I am fairly certain that Palmer's Go-Devil was that model.  CL Stunt was forever changed.

In his book Pioneers of Control Line Flying, Charles Mackey also gives credit to Bob Palmer as being the first to use flaps on the control line stunt model called the Go-Devil.

The Go- Devil by Jim Lee shown in a post above is a very good flying model.  I consider the Go-Devil one of the better flying OTS designs.  The only problem is the flap penalty in current OTS competition.  The flaps on the Go-Devil probably improve the flying quality of the airplane, but my experience is that flapped OTS designs, because of the OTS rule for a flap penalty, do not score particularly well against the several good non-flapped OTS designs.

Keith

[FLOYD CARTER]

As I remember, the flapped model by H.A. Thomas had flaps only, and no elevator control.  I don't see how that would work because without simultaneous elevators, the flaps would work in opposite. 

[Chuck_Smith]

Who builds a plane called "Mandarin" and doesn't paint it orange?

[Dan McEntee]

  I give up, you do maybe?

   How does this relate to the original post?

   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Perry Rose]

Chuck, PM sent.

Ty, PM sent also.

[John Park]

As I remember, the flapped model by H.A. Thomas had flaps only, and no elevator control.  I don't see how that would work because without simultaneous elevators, the flaps would work in opposite.

When I was young and couldn't solder very well, I had an elevator horn failure while flying a flapped model.  The model responded sluggishly to handle movements, but in the normal sense. I was able to fly it until the tank ran out, and land it normally.

[Dan McEntee]

As I remember, the flapped model by H.A. Thomas had flaps only, and no elevator control.  I don't see how that would work because without simultaneous elevators, the flaps would work in opposite.

    There was a model designed by Carl Goldberg and put out by Comet I think called the "Zing" that used only flap control to circumvent the Walker patents that were preventing kit makes from using the bell crank and elevator control system. There are adds for it in the old mags, and I think I have pieces and parts of one. Like John Park pointed out, it gives rudimentary but not precise pitch control and hardly worth the effort except to be able to have something to sell.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Tim Wescott]

As I remember, the flapped model by H.A. Thomas had flaps only, and no elevator control.  I don't see how that would work because without simultaneous elevators, the flaps would work in opposite.

There's a discussion somewhere on this forum where some full-scale pilot or other chipped in on this point: whether the flaps pitch the plane with or against their contribution to lift has to do with the plane planform (probably the wing chord and the tail volume coefficient, but I couldn't tell you which).

At any rate, some full scale planes pitch down when you crank in flaps for landing, others pitch up.

[Dennis Toth]

I once flew a carrier ship and when the flaps were popped down when I went into low speed the ship jumped up vertically not pitching and required down elevator to hold level flight. This was the first time I flew a carrier ship and didn't know what to expect. Since in a carrier ship doesn't have the flaps coupled to the elevator it gives and single action result. But different size flaps could make a difference.

Best,   DennisT

[Ted Fancher]

Definately a Go Devil.
Mine has an Atwood Super Champion sparker.
thanks
Jim
PS you might want to redo the center section sheeting     

If I had had to guess who would know the answer my first choice would'a bin Jim, fer sure!  Does it fly better than your Imitation Jim?  (If so, you can pretend you never saw my post...OK)

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

When I was young and couldn't solder very well, I had an elevator horn failure while flying a flapped model.  The model responded sluggishly to handle movements, but in the normal sense. I was able to fly it until the tank ran out, and land it normally.

Now that's AMAZING John.  Are you sure the pushrod didn't "almost" fail and only completely lost touch with the horn on landing?
The chances of the flaps only configuration"not reversing the control response...albeit with slow response...is pretty much unheard of...unless you somehow managed to be able to fly it with the CG far enough aft to get the center of lift "aft" of the flaps is pretty remote.

I'll sign this with an alias just in case you're right and I'm wrong!

Harry Potter

[James Lee]

Ted
When that Big Atwood is on song, the Go Devil is a total Joy to fly!!
I have re-engined the Imitation with a Stalker 51 SE and it is also a joy to fly.   So, Very different planes, and both lots o fun!
A bit of a side step on your comment, but, the Imitation is a VERY competitive design. 
Jim

[Dan McEntee]

There's a discussion somewhere on this forum where some full-scale pilot or other chipped in on this point: whether the flaps pitch the plane with or against their contribution to lift has to do with the plane planform (probably the wing chord and the tail volume coefficient, but I couldn't tell you which).

At any rate, some full scale planes pitch down when you crank in flaps for landing, others pitch up.

   For the uninitiated, in top R/C soaring competitions, flaps are used quite extensively, mostly for launching and landing, but also for changing the airfoil shape and camber for high speed cruising also.  My last  "ironing board" aileron/flap sailplane was a Dwight Holley Gobbler. It had a mechanically mixed flap and elevator compensating mixing system. When on a precision landing approach, you didn't want to slow the airplane too much as you needed the momentum, and then applied flap to a predetermined setting setting for maximum braking action and this tended to make the sailplane pitch up. it took quite a bit of down deflection of the full flying stab to counteract this, but the result was that you could be pointed nose down at about a 45 degree angle and it looked and acted like some one was holding the thing back! It was amazing how slow the airplane would fly pointing down in this configuration and it was easy to nail a high scoring landing. When all the electronic mixing radios came a long with micro servos of decent capacity, the "crow configuration was used to help with the lift spoiling  and braking action by raising both ailerons up., and it tempered the pitching up tendency also. The ailerons would still function as needed to help with roll control and keep wings level on landing approaches. I didn't take sailplane competition very far at this level, as at the time I was having trouble staying employed enough to be able t afford 6 and 7 hundred dollar air frames and 7 or 8 hundred dollar radios!  I had accumulated a bunch of C/L stunt stuff by that time and changed course. I may still revisit R/C soaring some time in the future, though just for fun.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

Back when I was playing with RC I wondered about flaps on  plane.  At the time I had acquired a semi-scale Piper Cub and a low wing semi-scale P-51.  I used the flap function on both planes.  I learned real fast that when flaps were deployed you not only had to add down elevator but had to increased the throttle.  If you didn't increase throttle the planes would slow down to stall speed.  Otherwise you had to almost dive the plane to keep it from stalling.   On the Cub it was fun to use flaps with a some wind as you could land with out forward ground speed.  Had several club members wonder how I could do it.  Yes, in Navy Carrier until the prop hanging became the norm I too had to use down elevator on the Sterling Gaurdion that was powered with a McCoy Redhead 60.   

[John Park]

Now that's AMAZING John.  Are you sure the pushrod didn't "almost" fail and only completely lost touch with the horn on landing?
The chances of the flaps only configuration"not reversing the control response...albeit with slow response...is pretty much unheard of...unless you somehow managed to be able to fly it with the CG far enough aft to get the center of lift "aft" of the flaps is pretty remote.

I'll sign this with an alias just in case you're right and I'm wrong!

Harry Potter

This was when it was not uncommon on small models to use a piano-wire pushrod, connected to a bent wire elevator horn by a piece of brass tubing, one end of which was soldered to the pushrod and the other end flattened and drilled for the horn.  The solder joint failed and the pushrod parted company completely with the elevator horn, so that the elevators were completely free to do what they liked.  What I remember (this was in about 1968) was that when I applied 'up', the model 'mushed', showing hardly any inclination to climb - I certainly don't recall that it pitched nose-down, and doubt that I could have got it back on the ground in one piece if it had.  The model was an own-design, by the way, with a flap area of about 14%.
The only other time I've felt anything like it was much later, when I was experimenting with different flap/elevator ratios on an Al Rabe Mustunt 1: on one flight, just to see what happened, I set a ratio giving rather more flap than elevator, and felt the same sort of effect, only much less pronounced.