Post by: Brian Gardner on February 04, 2019, 06:36:15 PM
Before I get things rolling are there any people wanting some?
Post by: Gordon Van Tighem on February 04, 2019, 07:33:54 PM
Gord VT
Post by: Robert Whitley on February 04, 2019, 11:42:40 PM
Post by: Robert Whitley on February 04, 2019, 11:52:04 PM
I also have two of those and am wondering about spares or upgrades.
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 05, 2019, 03:56:53 AM
Robert - I can't speak for retrofitment into a 36.
These are combat timed sets.
Out of curiosity is it the same piston and liner for a Fox 36?
I also have two of those and am wondering about spares or upgrades.
Post by: Andre Ming on February 05, 2019, 08:20:39 AM
Might want to clarify so Brian will understand WHICH 36 you are referring to:
* The baffle piston "36 C/L" engine. (Has a round intake venturi, and a sleeved crank journal, and a shorter crank than a 36X. This engine was aimed at the sport flier.)
* The flow-ported 36 size Combat series of engines. (No way the 36X piston/liners would be compatible with this series of engines.)
In a nutshell:
A 36X piston and sleeve will be compatible with any other engine Duke produced that used the 36X-based piston and sleeve: 36X BB*, 36X NB, 36X RC, 36 RC, 36 C/L. Such a piston and sleeve will even will fit into a 35X.
* A skirt relief radius to clear the rear BB will have to be machined into the piston skirt if Brian does not already do that for you.
A 36X piston and sleeve will NOT FIT any of the Combat engines AFTER the 36X ended production.
EDIT: The above assumes that Brian uses similar cylinder timing specs of the basic 36X sleeve.
Andre
Post by: C.T. Schaefer on February 05, 2019, 02:53:39 PM
Post by: Robert Whitley on February 05, 2019, 03:38:48 PM
Would you please put me down for two sets Brian.
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 05, 2019, 03:59:19 PM
I've added you to the list Robert.
Thanks for the clarification Andre.
Would you please put me down for two sets Brian.
Post by: dick shannon on February 05, 2019, 10:46:52 PM
21320 N 56 ST #1191 PHOENIX AZ 85054
CALL ANYTIME IT IS MY CELL PHONE.... THANKS
Post by: RC Storick on February 06, 2019, 05:10:59 AM
Post by: tim lackey on February 06, 2019, 07:00:47 AM
Put me down for two sets.
Thanks, Tim
Post by: Andre Ming on February 06, 2019, 08:52:16 AM
Brian's ABC 36X piston and sleeve would also fit some of the pre-36X combat engines. I've already mentioned the 35X. Of course, slip in an X NB crank in your 35X and you have a stroker motor that was the beginning of the 36X. Throw in Brian's ABC set and you can run some pretty hot fuel and impress your friends at how good your old 35X runs.
Another "sleeper" engine you can build is by putting the X NB crank into one of the "front loader" Combat specials and Brian's ABC set and presto: Another sleeper that runs better than the original. Attached is a picture of the engine of which I speak.
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52610.0;attach=295407;image)
Be advised that if you use an X NB shaft in a front loader engine, be sure to pay close attention to the head-to-piston clearance at TDC. (IF you retain the original-type straight plug head. OR, you can use the Hi-comp slant plug head that was made back in the early 70's run of X engines.)
Notice that I refer to the X NB (needle bearing) crank. Reason: The BB crank was ground to .498" to allow clearance for the .500 ID of the BB. The NB cranks are ground .500". You want the NB crank for NB bearing equipped cases, otherwise you have a bit too much clearance at the bearing and the bearing's not doing you any good.
All fer now.
Andre
Post by: GERALD WIMMER on February 06, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Andre can you please clarify a couple of points?
The 36 RC with X style case has the same sleeve and timing as a standard 36X and all 36X NB and BB have the same timing?
Also the Sport 36 both long case RC and CL I presume cannot use a 36X piston/rod/ liner and do they have milder timing then a 35X or 36X?
Many thanks Andre for your advice and I am very happy Brain is offering new parts to fix our old engines.
Regards Gerald
Post by: Andre Ming on February 06, 2019, 02:32:27 PM
During my tenure at Fox, the 36X piston and sleeve was used interchangeably throughout the existing 36 line. That includes all the models you mention.
The difference between the C/L "Sport" 36 and the 36 RC was only the case and the crank length. The use of the standard 36X crank in the 36 RC was only for more space for the RC carburetor.
The primary advantage of the 36X BB was Duke felt it had more ability for revving after post-sale modifications by the end user. On the test stand, there was not a measurable (RPM) difference between a production NB or BB X.
As to Duke's reason for the short case 36 Sport: Duke was trying for the lightest possible C/L engine with good power-to-weight ratio and less nose length to reduce the gyro effect of the spinning propeller. Interestingly, it fell to some of my experiments with same to indicate that a sleeved crank bearing DID have a small drawback that made some form of rolling bearing at the rear of the main a slight advantage. This would show up after extracting all the power out of a Sport 36 (crank retimed, venturi opened, on pressure, high-nitro, etc) and after continual maneuvers. It would seem that during continual maneuvers (as is the case in combat), a slight amount of heat sag at the crank journal could be detected (in Duke's mind, anyway). The rear crank journal was already at the "almost too loose" stage already (where it would have excessive run out), so honing more relief into it was not an option.
Nonetheless, it fell to me to hand make a production example, and mount it to a very light combat plane (with large, stylized "FOX 36" emblazoned on the outboard wing, top and bottom), and put on unofficial "demo" flights here and there around the '72 Nats. I used a Demon on pacifier, and ready to fly (sans fuel), came in at about 14 oz as I recall. It was impressive, but by early in the week and I pulled it and popped one of my hopped up 36X BB's on it. (Couldn't resist.) n1
My X turned more heads and got more interest than the Fox 36, much to Duke's disdain. ;D
Andre
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 06, 2019, 03:03:53 PM
Yes, I have done numerous runs of the ST V60 in the past.
Post by: Lyle Spiegel on February 06, 2019, 05:05:47 PM
Post by: RC Storick on February 06, 2019, 06:36:20 PM
List updated fellas.
Yes, I have done numerous runs of the ST V60 in the past.
put me on the list for 2 maybe 3 sets Of ST.60 when you run them
Post by: Andre Ming on February 06, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
No, a 36X piston and liner will not fit a "Baldhead". The sleeve for the Baldhead has a signficantly larger O.D., different piston and dimensions of same, and uses a totally different porting configuration. The Baldhead engine permanently ended the chance of there EVER being another 36X released as a sport engine/whatever, for the X dies were irretrievably altered in order to produce the Baldhead.
It might help to prolong the life of the crank to carefully Dremel a small radius at the crank intake port corners fore and aft as well as the inlet into the crankcase (the counterweight end). However, no guarantees! And be sure to make your radius to the fore and aft, and not alter the timing.
Sorry I don't have better news for you concerning the Baldhead. That was such a debacle, and such a shame, for the prototypes were awesome in power, revs, starting, et al. I had the misfortune of being the one to discover the crank issues on the production parts. (Not just cranks, there were a whole host of issues with the production parts.)
Andre
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 06, 2019, 10:22:30 PM
put me on the list for 2 maybe 3 sets Of ST.60 when you run them
Post by: C.T. Schaefer on February 07, 2019, 05:42:02 AM
Pretty sure we were using nitro in it. Lyle, you should run it on stunt fuel and, maybe a 9x7. Just to see 'er go! Al has one that has seen quite a bit of 'easy' running and it is still together. TS
Post by: James Holford on February 07, 2019, 05:48:51 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190207/f20493c7c8551a9bfdadf316a755e6dd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190207/0c78ead0cf01e7202450abeea0b85ef5.jpg)Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Andre Ming on February 07, 2019, 12:46:51 PM
Yup.
I had a couple of those NOS 35X cases that I rescued while at Fox waaaay back when. Here a few years ago I dug 'em out, used later production cranks, later production pistons n' sleeves, and later production slant plug heads, and made me a couple of stroker engines.
Note: On all engines in which you're replacing the piston n' sleeve, you will want to disassemble and THOUROUGHLY clean/de-varnish the CASE, head, and rear cover. Into the case you need to "fit" your new ABC sleeve, and that may require a bit of light lapping to get a nice, free fit of the sleeve into the case. Also make sure you lap the case where the sleeve's flange will be resting. The idea here is to lap-out any tightness in the sleeve-to-case fit and smooth the flange-to-case fit as much as possible. I also like to lap the top of the flange to the head I'm going to use. Doing these items will help minimize a case bind when the head is tightened. On the head screws, I always start at either the six-o-clock or 12-o-clock position and progressively tighten the head screws using a cross pattern. I tighten the 6/12's first because you have the cooling fins to help with rigidity during the initial tightening process to minimize distorting the head.
EDIT: What you have there is a later run 35X.
Andre
Post by: James Holford on February 07, 2019, 04:15:25 PM
James:Awesome info Andre.
Yup.
I had a couple of those NOS 35X cases that I rescued while at Fox waaaay back when. Here a few years ago I dug 'em out, used later production cranks, later production pistons n' sleeves, and later production slant plug heads, and made me a couple of stroker engines.
Note: On all engines in which you're replacing the piston n' sleeve, you will want to disassemble and THOUROUGHLY clean/de-varnish the CASE, head, and rear cover. Into the case you need to "fit" your new ABC sleeve, and that may require a bit of light lapping to get a nice, free fit of the sleeve into the case. Also make sure you lap the case where the sleeve's flange will be resting. The idea here is to lap-out any tightness in the sleeve-to-case fit and smooth the flange-to-case fit as much as possible. I also like to lap the top of the flange to the head I'm going to use. Doing these items will help minimize a case bind when the head is tightened. On the head screws, I always start at either the six-o-clock or 12-o-clock position and progressively tighten the head screws using a cross pattern. I tighten the 6/12's first because you have the cooling fins to help with rigidity during the initial tightening process to minimize distorting the head.
EDIT: What you have there is a later run 35X.
Andre
Question for ya. Since it's the later production...is it in any way better than the earlier ones?
Brian put me down for a set!
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Andre Ming on February 07, 2019, 05:37:14 PM
Not really better, in an obvious performance sense. As I recall, the angle brace/stiffener under the crank journal on the case is about the biggest difference.
Here's a pic from back when I was working on my 35X that nicely illustrates:
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52610.0;attach=295437;image)
Andre
Post by: Tom Walker on February 07, 2019, 08:47:51 PM
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 07, 2019, 11:48:56 PM
On request of someone a while back we tried to get numbers to do a run of those but there wasn't enough interest.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/brian-gardner-abc-pistonlinerrodpin-sets-for-fox-mk-iv-and-vi/msg444386/#msg444386
If possible I'd like to update my Fox CS collection. I'd like to put in for 3 sets. Thanks.
Post by: Tom Walker on February 08, 2019, 07:16:57 AM
Post by: Brian Gardner on February 08, 2019, 03:17:35 PM
Brian
My piston/liner request is for the .36X variant. 3 sets. Sorry for the misuse of "CS'.
Post by: Brian Gardner on March 05, 2019, 12:01:15 AM
Post by: Clifton Gregory on April 01, 2019, 04:59:57 PM
Cliff
Post by: Bob Mears on April 02, 2019, 10:08:16 AM
Bob Mears
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 02, 2019, 05:25:26 PM
Brian
Post by: James Holford on April 02, 2019, 05:26:56 PM
You're added to the list Cliff and Bob.Anyway I can get added to the ST.51 List and removed from the Fox list?
Brian
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 03, 2019, 12:35:19 AM
Anyway I can get added to the ST.51 List and removed from the Fox list?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: phil c on April 04, 2019, 07:59:47 PM
Phil C
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 05, 2019, 04:59:56 AM
What the heck, I'll take one set. Just the thing to make a smoother running engine for a light weight vintage model.
Phil C
Post by: Clifton Gregory on April 13, 2019, 12:42:09 PM
Put me on the list for another Fox 36X set, making it a total of 2- sets.
Best Regards,
Cliff
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 29, 2019, 12:57:44 AM
I have 4 spare sets if anyone wants extras
Post by: doug campbell on April 29, 2019, 04:32:22 AM
Any update on the Fox 35 ABC piston liner set you took names for about a year ago?
Cheers
Doug
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 29, 2019, 07:34:30 AM
Hi Brian,
Any update on the Fox 35 ABC piston liner set you took names for about a year ago?
Cheers
Doug
Post by: Andre Ming on April 29, 2019, 08:31:00 AM
They are ready. I'll be contacting everyone on the waiting list in coming days.
I have 4 spare sets if anyone wants extras
Wow... that oozes quality even in the pic! Well done Brian!
Andre
Post by: Bruce Guertin on April 29, 2019, 09:41:01 AM
Bruce
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 29, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
Can I get a set? I'll need payment details.
Bruce
Post by: Airacobra on April 30, 2019, 02:02:19 PM
Post by: John Given on April 30, 2019, 02:39:28 PM
You mean the "combat special" ???
On request of someone a while back we tried to get numbers to do a run of those but there wasn't enough interest.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/brian-gardner-abc-pistonlinerrodpin-sets-for-fox-mk-iv-and-vi/msg444386/#msg444386
Boy it sure would be nice if this could be made to happen. I’d be in for 2-3 sets myself
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 30, 2019, 05:07:01 PM
How much for a set?
Post by: Brian Gardner on April 30, 2019, 05:16:48 PM
Boy it sure would be nice if this could be made to happen. I’d be in for 2-3 sets myself
Post by: Bob Mears on May 01, 2019, 07:54:43 AM
Bob Mears
Post by: Brian Gardner on May 01, 2019, 04:52:13 PM
Will let you know if I end up with spare 36X sets (or do you mean stunt 35)
Brian, do you build ABC sets for Super Tigre? And, if you end up with unsold sets of the Fox let me know.
Bob Mears
Post by: Bob Mears on May 02, 2019, 10:36:32 AM
Post by: Randy Cuberly on May 02, 2019, 07:51:54 PM
36X Would love a Tiger G21 35 if you ever build any.
I too would go for two of those!!!
Randy Cuberly
Post by: Brian Gardner on May 02, 2019, 09:43:13 PM
Which are you guys after?
I think he did a run of the baffle piston tiger 35 so maybe he still has the specs?
Post by: Randy Cuberly on May 02, 2019, 10:37:28 PM
Yes, I've done 2 runs of the baffle piston version, and I think I did a run of flat top piston sets quite a few years back for the combat guys.
Which are you guys after?
Flat top pistons and heads for Combat Airplanes.
If necessary I would be willing to send an engine for info!
Randy Cuberly
Post by: Brian Gardner on May 03, 2019, 11:29:22 PM
Yes, It would be wise to get a sample engine just in case we don't have the specs for them anymore, it was a long time ago that we did the flat top piston combat version.
Brian
Flat top pistons and heads for Combat Airplanes.
If necessary I would be willing to send an engine for info!
Randy Cuberly