Author Topic: Fox 36X ABC sets (Read 4762 times)

Brian Gardner · « **on:** February 04, 2019, 06:36:15 PM »

Gents, I'm about to embark on another run of Fox 36X ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets to fulfill my current waiting list for them.

Before I get things rolling are there any people wanting some?

Gordon Van Tighem · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2019, 07:33:54 PM »

I would be interested in a set.
Gord VT

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2019, 11:42:40 PM »

I would be interested in one or two sets

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2019, 11:52:04 PM »

Out of curiosity is it the same piston and liner for a Fox 36?

I also have two of those and am wondering about spares or upgrades.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2019, 03:56:53 AM »

Gordon, I've added you to the list.

Robert - I can't speak for retrofitment into a 36.

These are combat timed sets.

Quote from: Robert Whitley on February 04, 2019, 11:52:04 PM

Out of curiosity is it the same piston and liner for a Fox 36?

I also have two of those and am wondering about spares or upgrades.

Andre Ming · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2019, 08:20:39 AM »

Robert:

Might want to clarify so Brian will understand WHICH 36 you are referring to:

* The baffle piston "36 C/L" engine. (Has a round intake venturi, and a sleeved crank journal, and a shorter crank than a 36X. This engine was aimed at the sport flier.)

* The flow-ported 36 size Combat series of engines. (No way the 36X piston/liners would be compatible with this series of engines.)

In a nutshell:

A 36X piston and sleeve will be compatible with any other engine Duke produced that used the 36X-based piston and sleeve: 36X BB*, 36X NB, 36X RC, 36 RC, 36 C/L. Such a piston and sleeve will even will fit into a 35X.

* A skirt relief radius to clear the rear BB will have to be machined into the piston skirt if Brian does not already do that for you.

A 36X piston and sleeve will NOT FIT any of the Combat engines AFTER the 36X ended production.

EDIT: The above assumes that Brian uses similar cylinder timing specs of the basic 36X sleeve.

Andre

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2019, 02:53:39 PM »

Thanks Andre, That should clear things up a bit. Another note: With a different rod will also fit a .35 Stunt. Might be a bit 'racey' with the stock crank! TS

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2019, 03:38:48 PM »

Thanks for the clarification Andre.

Would you please put me down for two sets Brian.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2019, 03:59:19 PM »

Andre's comments/assumptions are all correct.

I've added you to the list Robert.

Quote from: Robert Whitley on February 05, 2019, 03:38:48 PM

Thanks for the clarification Andre.

Would you please put me down for two sets Brian.

dick shannon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2019, 10:46:52 PM »

I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN BUYING ONE SET.... DICK SHANNON 5099527169
21320 N 56 ST #1191 PHOENIX AZ 85054
CALL ANYTIME IT IS MY CELL PHONE.... THANKS

RC Storick · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2019, 05:10:59 AM »

Have you ever run a V ST.60 ABC set? If not I wonder how many would be interested?

tim lackey · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2019, 07:00:47 AM »

Hi Brian
Put me down for two sets.
Thanks, Tim

Andre Ming · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2019, 08:52:16 AM »

Idea fodder the hot-rodders:

Brian's ABC 36X piston and sleeve would also fit some of the pre-36X combat engines. I've already mentioned the 35X. Of course, slip in an X NB crank in your 35X and you have a stroker motor that was the beginning of the 36X. Throw in Brian's ABC set and you can run some pretty hot fuel and impress your friends at how good your old 35X runs.

Another "sleeper" engine you can build is by putting the X NB crank into one of the "front loader" Combat specials and Brian's ABC set and presto: Another sleeper that runs better than the original. Attached is a picture of the engine of which I speak.

Be advised that if you use an X NB shaft in a front loader engine, be sure to pay close attention to the head-to-piston clearance at TDC. (IF you retain the original-type straight plug head. OR, you can use the Hi-comp slant plug head that was made back in the early 70's run of X engines.)

Notice that I refer to the X NB (needle bearing) crank. Reason: The BB crank was ground to .498" to allow clearance for the .500 ID of the BB. The NB cranks are ground .500". You want the NB crank for NB bearing equipped cases, otherwise you have a bit too much clearance at the bearing and the bearing's not doing you any good.

All fer now.

Andre

GERALD WIMMER · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2019, 01:31:30 PM »

Hello
Andre can you please clarify a couple of points?
The 36 RC with X style case has the same sleeve and timing as a standard 36X and all 36X NB and BB have the same timing?
Also the Sport 36 both long case RC and CL I presume cannot use a 36X piston/rod/ liner and do they have milder timing then a 35X or 36X?

Many thanks Andre for your advice and I am very happy Brain is offering new parts to fix our old engines.
Regards Gerald

Andre Ming · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2019, 02:32:27 PM »

Hi Gerald:

During my tenure at Fox, the 36X piston and sleeve was used interchangeably throughout the existing 36 line. That includes all the models you mention.

The difference between the C/L "Sport" 36 and the 36 RC was only the case and the crank length. The use of the standard 36X crank in the 36 RC was only for more space for the RC carburetor.

The primary advantage of the 36X BB was Duke felt it had more ability for revving after post-sale modifications by the end user. On the test stand, there was not a measurable (RPM) difference between a production NB or BB X.

As to Duke's reason for the short case 36 Sport: Duke was trying for the lightest possible C/L engine with good power-to-weight ratio and less nose length to reduce the gyro effect of the spinning propeller. Interestingly, it fell to some of my experiments with same to indicate that a sleeved crank bearing DID have a small drawback that made some form of rolling bearing at the rear of the main a slight advantage. This would show up after extracting all the power out of a Sport 36 (crank retimed, venturi opened, on pressure, high-nitro, etc) and after continual maneuvers. It would seem that during continual maneuvers (as is the case in combat), a slight amount of heat sag at the crank journal could be detected (in Duke's mind, anyway). The rear crank journal was already at the "almost too loose" stage already (where it would have excessive run out), so honing more relief into it was not an option.

Nonetheless, it fell to me to hand make a production example, and mount it to a very light combat plane (with large, stylized "FOX 36" emblazoned on the outboard wing, top and bottom), and put on unofficial "demo" flights here and there around the '72 Nats. I used a Demon on pacifier, and ready to fly (sans fuel), came in at about 14 oz as I recall. It was impressive, but by early in the week and I pulled it and popped one of my hopped up 36X BB's on it. (Couldn't resist.)

My X turned more heads and got more interest than the Fox 36, much to Duke's disdain.

Andre

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2019, 03:03:53 PM »

List updated fellas.

Yes, I have done numerous runs of the ST V60 in the past.

Lyle Spiegel · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2019, 05:05:47 PM »

Andre, Do you know if Brian's ABC setup will work in a Baldie? I have one, and am familiar with the crankshaft failure issue. I believe it is made of a hardenable grade of steel that likely was not properly heat treated(tempered) after is was heated and quenched to harden it. (I am a metallurgist). Without the temper HT step which provided "toughness, and resistance to fracture) the as quenched material is very brittle, and would have poor fatigue strength. To add to the problem are the sharp corners at ends of inlet opening , which will act as a stress riser/ notch. This can be radiused with a dremel. Do you think all that effort is worthwhile to "improve" my Baldie?

RC Storick · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2019, 06:36:20 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on February 06, 2019, 03:03:53 PM

List updated fellas.

Yes, I have done numerous runs of the ST V60 in the past.

put me on the list for 2 maybe 3 sets Of ST.60 when you run them

Andre Ming · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2019, 08:38:45 PM »

Hello Lyle:

No, a 36X piston and liner will not fit a "Baldhead". The sleeve for the Baldhead has a signficantly larger O.D., different piston and dimensions of same, and uses a totally different porting configuration. The Baldhead engine permanently ended the chance of there EVER being another 36X released as a sport engine/whatever, for the X dies were irretrievably altered in order to produce the Baldhead.

It might help to prolong the life of the crank to carefully Dremel a small radius at the crank intake port corners fore and aft as well as the inlet into the crankcase (the counterweight end). However, no guarantees! And be sure to make your radius to the fore and aft, and not alter the timing.

Sorry I don't have better news for you concerning the Baldhead. That was such a debacle, and such a shame, for the prototypes were awesome in power, revs, starting, et al. I had the misfortune of being the one to discover the crank issues on the production parts. (Not just cranks, there were a whole host of issues with the production parts.)

Andre

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2019, 10:22:30 PM »

Added to the appropriate list

Quote from: RC Storick on February 06, 2019, 06:36:20 PM

put me on the list for 2 maybe 3 sets Of ST.60 when you run them

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2019, 05:42:02 AM »

I got one of the early production motors from LS and put it in my Voodoo where the LS BB was. Right off the bat it was 5mph faster than the carefully tuned BB! It lasted 2 or 3 flights before the crank broke. Larry took a crank from another new motor and gave it to me. Needless to say that broke too. One of his favorite stories is that he still has that motor, minus crank, in the box with a tag that says "gave the shaft to tom". Hmmm....
Pretty sure we were using nitro in it. Lyle, you should run it on stunt fuel and, maybe a 9x7. Just to see 'er go! Al has one that has seen quite a bit of 'easy' running and it is still together. TS

James Holford · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2019, 05:48:51 AM »

Hmmmm so that ABC set would fit this??

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Andre Ming · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2019, 12:46:51 PM »

James:

Yup.

I had a couple of those NOS 35X cases that I rescued while at Fox waaaay back when. Here a few years ago I dug 'em out, used later production cranks, later production pistons n' sleeves, and later production slant plug heads, and made me a couple of stroker engines.

Note: On all engines in which you're replacing the piston n' sleeve, you will want to disassemble and THOUROUGHLY clean/de-varnish the CASE, head, and rear cover. Into the case you need to "fit" your new ABC sleeve, and that may require a bit of light lapping to get a nice, free fit of the sleeve into the case. Also make sure you lap the case where the sleeve's flange will be resting. The idea here is to lap-out any tightness in the sleeve-to-case fit and smooth the flange-to-case fit as much as possible. I also like to lap the top of the flange to the head I'm going to use. Doing these items will help minimize a case bind when the head is tightened. On the head screws, I always start at either the six-o-clock or 12-o-clock position and progressively tighten the head screws using a cross pattern. I tighten the 6/12's first because you have the cooling fins to help with rigidity during the initial tightening process to minimize distorting the head.

EDIT: What you have there is a later run 35X.

Andre

James Holford · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2019, 04:15:25 PM »

Quote from: Andre Ming on February 07, 2019, 12:46:51 PM

James:

Yup.

I had a couple of those NOS 35X cases that I rescued while at Fox waaaay back when. Here a few years ago I dug 'em out, used later production cranks, later production pistons n' sleeves, and later production slant plug heads, and made me a couple of stroker engines.

Note: On all engines in which you're replacing the piston n' sleeve, you will want to disassemble and THOUROUGHLY clean/de-varnish the CASE, head, and rear cover. Into the case you need to "fit" your new ABC sleeve, and that may require a bit of light lapping to get a nice, free fit of the sleeve into the case. Also make sure you lap the case where the sleeve's flange will be resting. The idea here is to lap-out any tightness in the sleeve-to-case fit and smooth the flange-to-case fit as much as possible. I also like to lap the top of the flange to the head I'm going to use. Doing these items will help minimize a case bind when the head is tightened. On the head screws, I always start at either the six-o-clock or 12-o-clock position and progressively tighten the head screws using a cross pattern. I tighten the 6/12's first because you have the cooling fins to help with rigidity during the initial tightening process to minimize distorting the head.

EDIT: What you have there is a later run 35X.

Andre

Awesome info Andre.

Question for ya. Since it's the later production...is it in any way better than the earlier ones?

Brian put me down for a set!

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Andre Ming · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2019, 05:37:14 PM »

James:

Not really better, in an obvious performance sense. As I recall, the angle brace/stiffener under the crank journal on the case is about the biggest difference.

Here's a pic from back when I was working on my 35X that nicely illustrates:

Andre

Tom Walker · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2019, 08:47:51 PM »

If possible I'd like to update my Fox CS collection. I'd like to put in for 3 sets. Thanks.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2019, 11:48:56 PM »

You mean the "combat special"

On request of someone a while back we tried to get numbers to do a run of those but there wasn't enough interest.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/brian-gardner-abc-pistonlinerrodpin-sets-for-fox-mk-iv-and-vi/msg444386/#msg444386

Quote from: Tom Walker on February 07, 2019, 08:47:51 PM

If possible I'd like to update my Fox CS collection. I'd like to put in for 3 sets. Thanks.

Tom Walker · « **Reply #27 on:** February 08, 2019, 07:16:57 AM »

My piston/liner request is for the .36X variant. 3 sets. Sorry for the misuse of "CS'.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #28 on:** February 08, 2019, 03:17:35 PM »

No problem Tom, your on the list mate.

Brian

Quote from: Tom Walker on February 08, 2019, 07:16:57 AM

My piston/liner request is for the .36X variant. 3 sets. Sorry for the misuse of "CS'.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #29 on:** March 05, 2019, 12:01:15 AM »

I've finalised numbers for this run. They will be started after LA46, ST46, ST51 are finished. (soonish)

Clifton Gregory · « **Reply #30 on:** April 01, 2019, 04:59:57 PM »

Brian, I need one for a Fox 36X. Thanks

Cliff

Bob Mears · « **Reply #31 on:** April 02, 2019, 10:08:16 AM »

I would like one also please.
Bob Mears

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #32 on:** April 02, 2019, 05:25:26 PM »

You're added to the list Cliff and Bob.

Brian

James Holford · « **Reply #33 on:** April 02, 2019, 05:26:56 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on April 02, 2019, 05:25:26 PM

You're added to the list Cliff and Bob.

Brian

Anyway I can get added to the ST.51 List and removed from the Fox list?

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Brian Gardner · « **Reply #34 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:35:19 AM »

Yes, no problem

Quote from: James Holford on April 02, 2019, 05:26:56 PM

Anyway I can get added to the ST.51 List and removed from the Fox list?

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phil c · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2019, 07:59:47 PM »

What the heck, I'll take one set. Just the thing to make a smoother running engine for a light weight vintage model.

Phil C

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #36 on:** April 05, 2019, 04:59:56 AM »

Copy that Phil

Quote from: phil c on April 04, 2019, 07:59:47 PM

What the heck, I'll take one set. Just the thing to make a smoother running engine for a light weight vintage model.

Phil C

Clifton Gregory · « **Reply #37 on:** April 13, 2019, 12:42:09 PM »

Brian,

Put me on the list for another Fox 36X set, making it a total of 2- sets.

Best Regards,

Cliff

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #38 on:** April 29, 2019, 12:57:44 AM »

They are ready. I'll be contacting everyone on the waiting list in coming days.

I have 4 spare sets if anyone wants extras

doug campbell · « **Reply #39 on:** April 29, 2019, 04:32:22 AM »

Hi Brian,

Any update on the Fox 35 ABC piston liner set you took names for about a year ago?

Cheers

Doug

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #40 on:** April 29, 2019, 07:34:30 AM »

PM sent Doug

Quote from: doug campbell on April 29, 2019, 04:32:22 AM

Hi Brian,

Any update on the Fox 35 ABC piston liner set you took names for about a year ago?

Cheers

Doug

Andre Ming · « **Reply #41 on:** April 29, 2019, 08:31:00 AM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on April 29, 2019, 12:57:44 AM

They are ready. I'll be contacting everyone on the waiting list in coming days.

I have 4 spare sets if anyone wants extras

Wow... that oozes quality even in the pic! Well done Brian!

Andre

Bruce Guertin · « **Reply #42 on:** April 29, 2019, 09:41:01 AM »

Can I get a set? I'll need payment details.

Bruce

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #43 on:** April 29, 2019, 04:51:39 PM »

PM sent Bruce

Quote from: Bruce Guertin on April 29, 2019, 09:41:01 AM

Can I get a set? I'll need payment details.

Bruce

Airacobra · « **Reply #44 on:** April 30, 2019, 02:02:19 PM »

How much for a set?

John Given · « **Reply #45 on:** April 30, 2019, 02:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on February 07, 2019, 11:48:56 PM

You mean the "combat special"

On request of someone a while back we tried to get numbers to do a run of those but there wasn't enough interest.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/brian-gardner-abc-pistonlinerrodpin-sets-for-fox-mk-iv-and-vi/msg444386/#msg444386

Boy it sure would be nice if this could be made to happen. I’d be in for 2-3 sets myself

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #46 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:07:01 PM »

$105 Australian plus shipping.

Quote from: Airacobra on April 30, 2019, 02:02:19 PM

How much for a set?

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #47 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:16:48 PM »

I really only had 4 people genuinely interested. Others were well - time wasters

Quote from: John Given on April 30, 2019, 02:39:28 PM

Boy it sure would be nice if this could be made to happen. I’d be in for 2-3 sets myself

Bob Mears · « **Reply #48 on:** May 01, 2019, 07:54:43 AM »

Brian, do you build ABC sets for Super Tigre? And, if you end up with unsold sets of the Fox let me know.

Bob Mears

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #49 on:** May 01, 2019, 04:52:13 PM »

I do ST46, G51, V60, G15, C35

Will let you know if I end up with spare 36X sets (or do you mean stunt 35)

Quote from: Bob Mears on May 01, 2019, 07:54:43 AM

Brian, do you build ABC sets for Super Tigre? And, if you end up with unsold sets of the Fox let me know.

Bob Mears