Fox 35 Super Stunt

[john gunn]

This new Fox 35 will swing a 11-6 prop all day long, almost the power of a 40,steady run,

[Larry Renger]

What are you talking about? Where can we get details on this new engine?

[Phil Krankowski]

Is that one of those "ceramic" fox 35 engines?

Phil

[ChrisSarnowski]

Well, it looks like the other thread on the Fox 35 super stunt has vanished. There was some good info there.

If I recall correctly:

Hemi Head.
Standard backplate (not the anodized stuffer back plate).
Iron piston and cylinder sleeve.
Porting modifications on the sleeve.
New needle valve. (this is the one we have seen for a few years).

I don't think we heard anything that would change the infamous burp (no bypass modifications).
Also there was nothing mentioned about the crankshaft (no modifications).

-Chris

[Balsa Butcher]

Is this one of those "Ground Hog Day" scenarios? Wonder if Bill Murray will chime in? Hope it goes better this time around.

[RC Storick]

I don't know what happened to the thread

[john e. holliday]

I don't know what is wrong with this thread either.  I looked at it and when I tried to go to another thread my computer was locked up.   After rebooting the computer I could not get up on Stunt Hanger.   Kept telling me no site exists. 

[Dennis Moritz]

Spontaneous Combustion. See Charles Dickens.

[Mike Anderson]

I don't know what is wrong with this thread either.  I looked at it and when I tried to go to another thread my computer was locked up.   After rebooting the computer I could not get up on Stunt Hanger.   Kept telling me no site exists. 

Don't think it had anything to do with the thread -- Stunthanger.com disappeared for me yesterday also - couldn't access it from any computer here at work, or my home computer until late last night.  (Got "Site taking too long ...." errors.

[Matt Colan]

Don't think it had anything to do with the thread -- Stunthanger.com disappeared for me yesterday also - couldn't access it from any computer here at work, or my home computer until late last night.  (Got "Site taking too long ...." errors.

Me too. Wasn't back online until sometime around 11-12

[Brett Buck]

Well, it looks like the other thread on the Fox 35 super stunt has vanished. There was some good info there.

If I recall correctly:

Hemi Head.
Standard backplate (not the anodized stuffer back plate).
Iron piston and cylinder sleeve.
Porting modifications on the sleeve.
New needle valve. (this is the one we have seen for a few years).

I don't think we heard anything that would change the infamous burp (no bypass modifications).
Also there was nothing mentioned about the crankshaft (no modifications).

     Right - more-or-less the same engine with a slightly altered input port.

     Even a stock 35 will more-or-less function with an 11-6, but the resulting extra pounding and heat will take it's toll in short order. If the new is truly more powerful I sure hope they at least did something to upgrade the crankshaft and conrod. That's why it would be helpful if someone with more experience got to test one.

     Brett

[Jim Thomerson]

If you run an 11 x 5 on your Fox stunt 35, with a shaft extension and heavy hub, my experience suggests that it will run well for a very long time.  I have never had any kind of failure.

[Eric Viglione]

If you run an 11 x 5 on your Fox stunt 35, with a shaft extension and heavy hub, my experience suggests that it will run well for a very long time.  I have never had any kind of failure.

Right, you can always get lucky, and yet, this past weekend I managed to bend a soft 40th Anniversary crank merely by getting too aggressive with a 4 way (said very low mechanical advantage) while tightening a propeller. (I guess I have gotten too used to the force I can get away with on 5/16" cranks and carbon props, heh heh) Had one fox 35  that had lead a short pampered life spit out half the crank with a small 1 3/4 plastic spinner and light wood prop still attached as it whizzed by my ear... as they say about a lot of things, but especially Fox 35's, you mileage may vary. LOL.
EricV

[john e. holliday]

I've never stripped the threads on a Fox .35 Stunt, but have stripped the thread on the extensions I have to use with the plastic spinners that are required in some Fox racing events.   I did break a shaft one time killing the engine with a rag thrown into the nylon prop.

[BillP]

I phoned Fox today to order parts and asked Sharon about the new SuperStunt. She said they have been selling then several years and I needed to talk to a tech for specific build details. The tech was busy at the moment so I will call back another day.

bp

[john gunn]

The super stunt has been out for a short time, I reported on it because it is the perfect engine for my building style.
The last thread was cancelled, Sparkie sent me a notice that it was cancelled, not sure why he did that.

Call fox and get on the list for the next run of this motor..

[Phil Krankowski]

I've always left my cell # and the tech called back same or next day...

Phil

[BillP]

I phoned Sharon at Fox again today to ask for info...and the tech guy was too busy on production to talk. She was quite sure the mods are more than a bolt on hemi kit and results in more power.  Like already posted by JG, there is a waiting list and the price is $112. She couldn't confirm a production date but said it would probably be after the first of the year. Sharon also referenced John G. as one of the happy customers who fly one.

[Randy Cuberly]

I have a Fox 35 (Not one of the type being discussed here) that I've invested about 400+ dollars in.  Hi Zoot crank, AAC piston Sleeve, Hemi head, Stuffer backplate, ST Needle Valve assy Tongue Muffler.   It runs very smooth, and does a nice 2-4 break, but my Stock LA25 will bury it for power output.

Randy Cuberly

[john gunn]

What prop do you have on each engine?  Makes a difference.

[RandySmith]

I have a Fox 35 (Not one of the type being discussed here) that I've invested about 400+ dollars in.  Hi Zoot crank, AAC piston Sleeve, Hemi head, Stuffer backplate, ST Needle Valve assy Tongue Muffler.   It runs very smooth, and does a nice 2-4 break, but my Stock LA25 will bury it for power output.

Randy Cuberly

WOW  you could have bought the same from me with a ceramic P/S HZ cnc bplate Hemi head  PA NVA custom built and saved about 175.00  :-) 

Randy

[Brett Buck]

I phoned Sharon at Fox again today to ask for info...and the tech guy was too busy on production to talk. She was quite sure the mods are more than a bolt on hemi kit and results in more power. 

   I think the other thread got to the root of it - it appeared that the input port was a lot bigger, and maybe retimed. I won't speculate on how that helps, if indeed it does.

    Brett

[Randy Cuberly]

WOW  you could have bought the same from me with a ceramic P/S HZ cnc bplate Hemi head  PA NVA custom built and saved about 175.00  :-) 

Randy

Yeah, I know Randy...this one just sorta grew over time...no real intention to do this or I would have bought one of yours...had some fun changing things a little at a time.  Sleeve, Piston and crank were the things that really made a difference the rest is a little change but not all that much.  Best thing was probably the weight at about 5 oz.  The aluminum sleeve and piston is significantly lighter...I wondered if it would work OK with the Hi Zoot crank...seems to work fine, very smooth runner...none of the old Fox vibes!  Wallet is significantly lighter too!  I'm going to build a 34-35 oz G. Nobler for it for fun.

Randy Cuberly

[rich gorrill]

There is a 60th anniversary Super Stunt listed on the Bay right now. 2 days left opening bid $49.95, so far no bidders. I have no dog in this fight, just letting everyone know there is one  available if you are interested. It says Super Stunt on the side of the box.

[john e. holliday]

You were supposed to be quiet about this engine.   Yeah I've been watching that engine.   Tell the wife I should get a commission from the sellers.  Seems when I start a bid close to the end of an item on the bay,  the bids go out of sight.

[Randy Cuberly]

What prop do you have on each engine?  Makes a difference.

Well, technically speaking, the amount of power produced is irrespective of the prop.  It's mostly dependent on the Rpm range the engine runs in.  Certainly if you put a 13 inch prop on the 25 it won't make enough RPM to get the engine in the happy range of it's porting.  Neither will the Fox.
However speaking in a practical vein...The LA25 will turn any prop the Fox will turn and still produce more power!  I've run an LA25 with an 11.5 4 APC and although it's not particularly happy it pulls the prop better than a Fox 35 will.  Approximately 1000 more RPM.

For flying on the LA25 Most folks run 9-5 APC's I run a 10-4 in a stunter and fly at 2400 ft altitude at temperature as high as 105 degrees.  Any Fox 35 typically will pull a 10-5 APC at about 1500 less RPM and fly at about the same speed with less driving power in maneuvers.
At least that's been my experience.

On the other hand I have a couple of Aerotigers that weigh very little more than a Fox or the LA and will fly a much larger airplane with a lot more authority.  They cost about the same as a "Super Fox".

Randy Cuberly

[rich gorrill]

Sorry Mr. holliday, I wasn't sure anyone really cared. With all the Fox bashing that goes on I didn't think anyone would be too interested in the latest and greatest cement mixer to come out of the Fox factory L. O. L. I still own 3 and haven't put them on an airplane since i discovered how smooth other engines can run.

Rich

[Larry Fernandez]

WOW  you could have bought the same from me with a ceramic P/S HZ cnc bplate Hemi head  PA NVA custom built and saved about 175.00  :-) 

Randy

Or, he could have purchased an Aero Tiger .36 and have the very best motor for most classic size planes.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Randy Cuberly]

Or, he could have purchased an Aero Tiger .36 and have the very best motor for most classic size planes.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Hmmmm...Yeah but I already have two Aerotigers.  Never had a Fox 35 that doesn't vibrate like a paint shaker before.  It was really just an exercise and involved a lot of bench testing.  It was for fun.  My latest Classic plane is a Collossus with a ROJett 61.
It doesn't vibrate either.  Well not much anyway.

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

Well I see the bid is up to $71.00 with a day to go.   New from the factory on sale the stunt .35 is $75.00  and the Ceramic one is over $141.00.  May have to give Fox a call as I like the looks and have several that do not vibrate once they were broken in.

[Jay]

Well, technically speaking, the amount of power produced is irrespective of the prop.  It's mostly dependent on the Rpm range the engine runs in.  Certainly if you put a 13 inch prop on the 25 it won't make enough RPM to get the engine in the happy range of it's porting.  Neither will the Fox.
However speaking in a practical vein...The LA25 will turn any prop the Fox will turn and still produce more power!  I've run an LA25 with an 11.5 4 APC and although it's not particularly happy it pulls the prop better than a Fox 35 will.  Approximately 1000 more RPM.

For flying on the LA25 Most folks run 9-5 APC's I run a 10-4 in a stunter and fly at 2400 ft altitude at temperature as high as 105 degrees.  Any Fox 35 typically will pull a 10-5 APC at about 1500 less RPM and fly at about the same speed with less driving power in maneuvers.
At least that's been my experience.

On the other hand I have a couple of Aerotigers that weigh very little more than a Fox or the LA and will fly a much larger airplane with a lot more authority.  They cost about the same as a "Super Fox".

Randy Cuberly

Where do you get these Aero Tigers for the same price as a Fox?  Last time I looked an Aero Tiger was going for $239.  I got my Fox Super Stunter for $80.

[Randy Cuberly]

Where do you get these Aero Tigers for the same price as a Fox?  Last time I looked an Aero Tiger was going for $239.  I got my Fox Super Stunter for $80.

I was referring to one of Randy Smiths Super Fox stunters...they really are what Fox should have made for a "Super Stunt' Fox.  Anything with the fox crank and an Iron piston in a steel sleeve is not going to run smoothly!
I think Randy gets something in the neighborhood of $250.00 for one of his...If you must have a Fox 35 this is the way to go in my humble opinion...
Your results may vary and I give no garantees on anything with the fox name attached!  

I'm only making an educated guess on Randy's price and do not intend this to be taken that you can buy one from him for this price.  I most definitely could not sell one like mine for that price!

Randy Cuberly

PS:  I'm not sure where your price came from, but the Fox web site lists the Standard stunt 35 with the Ceramic sleeve for $175.50, on sale now for $141.95.
Fox Lore seems to get more interesting and fantastic everytime it comes up!

[Mike Keville]

I get a real boot out of seeing all this 'Fox 35' baloney.

During 1950-1954, we flew stock Fox 29s and 35s, fed with Francisco Powermist and Testors 39 fuel and spinning 9-6 or 10-6 Top Flites, in Veco Warriors, Squaws and Chiefs.....plus a few Barnstormers, All Americans and Kenhi Wildcats.

We didn't use fuel filters....weren't concerned about the 'Fox burp'....just flew the he## out of them...."Mach Two with our hair on fire", as it were.

Many years after that, we discovered 'Precision Aerobatics'....slo-mo flying to pre-ordained points on the hemisphere.  Some excelled; most of us didn't.

The much-maligned Fox 29/35 gets a bum rap from many.  Those of us who busted our knuckles on those beasts remember them fondly.....although....

.....today I'd rather have an Aero-Tiger .36
 

[Brett Buck]

I get a real boot out of seeing all this 'Fox 35' baloney.
<<snip>>

The much-maligned Fox 29/35 gets a bum rap from many.  Those of us who busted our knuckles on those beasts remember them fondly.....although....

.....today I'd rather have an Aero-Tiger .36
 

    I don't think many people are actually bashing the Fox 35. What is happening is that if anyone evaluates it objectively against more capable engines, they get *accused* of bashing it. Nothing like it in this thread, but in the other one there were people coming close to claiming the Fox 35 is a better stunt engine than a PA61. Not only is that absurdly bad information, it was based on virtually nothing aside from blindly assuming that if it came from Fox, it is automatically superior. Never mind that nobody doing it was remotely qualified to make any sort of assessment.

     Nobody begrudges anyone that likes their engines, it's not like I make any money off of what engine anybody uses. I expect I have flown more Fox flights than any of the rabid supporters. But blindly loyalty without even a scintilla of objectivity drives the endless argument over it.

   Brett

[BillP]

The eBay Super Stunt went for $90...a few bucks less than new. I suppose flying a Fox 35 is like riding a Harley. Modern, smoother, faster isn't a critical factor for buying one.  Like the Harley guys say, if a person has to ask why, they wouldn't understand the answer anyway. No doubt I will pick a Hayabusa over a Harley every time but when it comes to model airplane engines the Fox Stunt makes fun while the offshore engines bore me. I just hope the Super Stunt has more power over the stock version so I can fly it on larger ships. I don't understand why the Super Stunt has been out for "years" and the mods are such a mystery either.

bp
 

[john gunn]

I will post photos of the super stunt soon,we are having a spell of bad weather in Texas.

[Jim Kraft]

Hey bp; I think you hit the nail on the head. Lots of us old guys that came back to flying control line from flying R/C pattern for years wanted to go back and fly control line like we use to. For many, that was Fox 35's, McCoy Red Heads, and other old engines from our early days. From a performance standpoint it makes no sense at all, but from nostalgia, it makes perfect sense. Most of us have tried the latest and greatest engines at some point, but they are boring. Back in the 6o's, I ran many gallons of Superfuel thru Fox 35's, and loved every minute of it. My first Fox 35 I got back in the early 60's has had lots of fuel thru it on many different planes and is still flying my Bislob without doing anything but cleaning it once in a while. Oh! and my old Harley is slow, it vibrates, and it's noisy, but all the others are boring. Different strokes.

[Leo Mehl]

I designed the Arctic fox for the fox 35 . My only grip about the fox is a bad crankshft that has a built in flaw. I ran one for about ten years in my Actic fox with no trouble what so ever.