News:


  • June 21, 2025, 09:06:01 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Another gray airplane  (Read 2352 times)

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Another gray airplane
« on: February 20, 2009, 08:26:52 AM »
My Saito 62 powered Legacy (Latency) is comming along.. Almost one color, dabbed filler on a bunch of places this morning so it's all blotchy again, tomorrow I'll sand the whole thing and squirt another coat of gray. As it sits with everything attached it's 58 ounces, probably going to end up 64-65 ounces RTF. Not what I was hoping for but the Saito won't care and it's stiff and straight..

Heard from another 4 stroke fan yesterday, he is flying a 75-80 ounce 700+ sq/in stunt ship with a Saito 62, running an APC 13-7 in Expert and doing well with it. Guess 7 pitch props only work good east of Arizona  ;D


Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10476
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2009, 08:31:20 AM »
Man, that's just cool. No doubt about it, it gets high "charisma" points.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1390
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2009, 10:22:31 AM »
Is that an antenna coming out by the cockpit?  Is that a R/C airplane?   LL~  Just kidding.  Looks very nice.  I'm a "classic" kind of guy mostly, but I am beginning to like the look of those jet stylers.
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline proparc

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2390
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2009, 10:34:10 AM »
I wan't to hang out at Bob's house!! :D That 62 will make short work of that Latency. My 72 on my first stunt ship made it jump like a scalded cat and it weighed 86 oz.,(have mercy on me please-my first foam wings). Remember, when you get into the 62/72 Saito range, you are using a motor designed to pull a MUCH heavier RC ship.

Sometime back, I was down at Sepulveda field in Los Angeles, and after flying my 72 powered CL ship , I walked over to the RC field. There was a guy there with a 72 powered RC Mustang that weighed 6.5 lbs with retracts. We talked about the then, new motor and I walked out to the flight line with him for his flight. The plane did EXACTLY what he said it would do. He taxied out, punched it, retracted the gear right off the deck, and the plane went straight up!!! He came back down and flew inverted right on the deck at full speed.

This guy knew his business when it came to props. He knew precisely the right prop for his Saito 72 in his application, and he had the results to prove it. He also knew just much weight his wing could carry relative to that weight AND engine. I cannot begin to tell you how much I learned from that guy. I gave him a couple of tips for his 72 and he gave some really good tips also.

If you know what you are doing, the Saito 62/72 combination will handle just about anything legal we fly.  
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Paul Taylor

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6598
  • If God is your Co-pilot - swap seats!
    • Our Local CL Web Page
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2009, 05:23:40 PM »
Looking good Bob!

 y1
Paul
AMA 842917

As my coach and mentor Jim Lynch use to say every time we flew together - “We are making memories

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3431
  • AMA78415
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 02:10:01 PM »
That is really neat Bob; It reminds me of the jet styled classic planes with Fox 35's. It seems like a contradiction flying a jet with a four stroke, but the first time I saw one of those classic jets flying with a Fox running in a fat four, it was just to cool. I want to see it fly.
Jim Kraft

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 03:32:56 PM »
Hi Jim,

Am sure you will see it on the circuit this season.. You still flying Advanced? if so you will more than likely get a chance to out fly it  ;D

Offline Will Moore

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 249
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 03:59:04 PM »
Hi Bob;

I'm the guy you are referring to and here is the airplane w/ Saito 62cl.  I've used several props, and currently using an APC 13/7, on 66 foot lines eye to eye. 
This airplane has placed very well in contests here in New England.  I modified the venturi intake, reamed out the muffler exhaust stack a little ( do not think it necessary ), and use only Powermaster 20/20 4-stroke fuel.   RPM is tacked at 7,200 to 7,400 static at release, and aim at 5.1 to 5.3 sec. lap speeds.  The Saito is a powerhouse of undeniably torque, and easily handles this airframe.  It will have no trouble handling yours.  By the way, I love your  sidemount idea and want to try it on my next effort.

Will Moore
Things take longer to happen than you think they will,

Then they happen much faster than you thought they could.
 AMA # 209

Offline Bryan Higgins

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
  • Arvada Associated Modelers Member
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 11:21:05 AM »
Bob

Cool another four stroke stunt plane. I like it , post your pics when you paint her... R%%%% H^^ H^^
Bryan
Bryan R higgins Jr.
Arvada,Colorado
AMA#885188

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3431
  • AMA78415
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 07:43:09 PM »
Fat chance Bob; I will probably still be flying a Magician, but I will have fun trying. Please post a picture when you get it painted.
Jim Kraft

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22975
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 09:06:35 PM »
Don't let Jim pull your leg as he has beaten some fairly good planes with those Magicians.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 07:13:52 AM »
Don't let Jim pull your leg as he has beaten some fairly good planes with those Magicians.  DOC Holliday

Ain't that the truth, he has kicked my butt more than once.. I'll sure need to get back up to speed, last season was almost a total washout due to a bad case of Shingles.. Still have nerve damage in my right thumb but everything else seems to be back to normal.

Put what I hope is the final gray touch up on it this morning, now comes the hard part.. I have no idea how I'm going to paint it.. About the only thing I've decided on is the base color will probably be sky blue.. Other than that I'm still lost for a trim scheme.

Offline Martin Quartim

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 827
    • StuntHobby
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 12:01:43 PM »
Bob,

it is looking good. Love trikes, have won some contest just because of higher marks on take off and landings and I am quite sure I managed that because of the trikes, I can't do the same with conventional.

Have you made a venturi like mine? I'd love to see you try it with the 62. If you do please try first with out the Nylon bolt. I think the key point for it to work is to have a clean air flow, with the bolt on the way it will cause some turbulence and I am afraid it will not work exactly as mine, then do your thing and if works better I'll do the same here. That venturi was dimensioned to use low nitro. If you plan to use 20-20 make the venturi with a smaller diameter. I can't run 20% nitro on my Saito 72 with this venturi it is tooo much power. With that venturi I use 10% and 15% nitro. I am sure using only PM 20-20 is best. It would be interesting if you try that on the Saito 40 as well. One way I thought of doing it, is to fill the original R/C manifold with Devcon Aluminum paste, then drill the venturi hole and the spray hole and machine the side flat for a perfect Spray Bar fit.

Will,

how did you modify your venturi ?

Did you by any chance have tried the Top Flite 14x6 prop on your Saito 62?

Martin
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

https://www.youtube.com/user/martinSOLO

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 02:16:14 PM »
Hi Martin, Thanks, this is my first trike and just in case I added a tail wheel mount. I can convert it to a tail dragger by simply swapping the two mains, removing the nose gear and screwing on a tail wheel.

This ship is getting the same setup that has proved to work so well on my 56, Dixon venturi with a PA needle assy and of course the screw.. What I believe is a fixed intake will work fine if you can or get lucky enough to match the intake to the prop. The adjustment screw allowes me to run just about any prop (withen reason) and I can precisely tune the intake to the prop and/or conditions if necessary. The runs I get are so consistant I can't fathom that the screw is creating any issues, if it is creating turbulence I can't help but think it's a good thing.

Will be running (at least starting with) the same prop on this ship as I run on my two 56's Rev-Up 13-7.5 that actually measures about a 7 pitch. Once I get this ship dialed in I am planning on turning my Score into a test bed to play with props and a few different venturi setups like we did with the 40.. Wasn't able to better the setup on the 40 but it's worth trying just to be sure I am running as good as it gets... This is when I'll make a copy of your set-up and see how it goes.. On the 40's I machined a new insert out of aluminum, the same thing can be done on the 56/62 but I have enough UHP and Dixon intakes I won't go the trouble until I get a chance to start experimenting..

Right now I need a good stunt ship so this one will use what I already know works.. Do not want to be thinking or worrying about engine runs during the trimming sessions and then I need to practice.. I'm really hoping to beat up on a few piped airplanes this season.. May not happen but a fun dream..

Offline Will Moore

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 249
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 07:08:18 PM »

Hi Martin:

I wish I had taken a picture of what I did to the venturi, but now I do not want to pull the engine just to take a picture.  When I do pull the engine, though, I'll document it so
you can see what I did.

I'll try to explain it verbally here.   I originally tried the screw method Bob Reeves is so successful with, but was finding that I was adjusting the screw almost totally into the venturi w/o
much change in run.

So, I pulled the motor, and took a piece of brass tubing that was small enough to sort of fit into the venturi, and I  extended it to about 1/2 inch above the existing venturi housing.
I soldered a plate to the outside of it and bent the plate at an  angle so that this brass "tab" would reach and cover the 2 closest bolts of the backplate of the engine.
 I drilled 2 holes in this brass plate,for the bolts, and bolted the whole sub assembly to the backplate of the engine.  I used a high temperature automotive silicon sealer around
the brass tubing to seal it and sort of bond it to the venturi.  I also put a fine screen venturi cover over the brass tubing like some guys do to regular 2 stoke intakes - you know,
the kind that is made of rubber and fits tightly around the venturi to keep dust and foreign stuff out of the intake.  I did that to keep foreign matter out, and to control spray-back
into the engine compartment.

I fired her up and she immediately calmed down in flight.  At that point I started experimenting with all sorts of props.  I am not good at re-pitching, and I do not like complicating
things, so I started my quest on what prop woould work the best.  Dave Cook felt that for testing purposes, APC props were, very uniform .  They do not seem to vary much in
flight characteristics from several props of the same dimensions.  So, if you break one, another of the same will fly rather close to the original.  Manufacturing duplication seems to be very accurate.  So I experimented with various sizes, in APC as well as some wood Zingers.

During this experimentation period, I realized that this Saito 62 4-stroke seems to need a lot of prop to settle it down.  My fuel is always Powermaster 20/20, and other fuels do not seem as consistant, for me at least.   I ended up using a Bolly three blade 12/6.5, and an APC 13/7 with the APC 7 pitch 13 inch prop giving a slight edge on where I wanted to be with this ship.
I fly on 66 foot lines , eye to eye, and aim for about 5.1 to 5.3 lap speeds.   When the ship settles down after takeoff, it maintains the lap speed all the way through the flight.  At the end,
the Saito 62 revs up a bit for about one lap and just quits.    I am of the opinion I get better runs with high pitch props (7") , and aim to have a release static rpm of 7200 to 7500 at
takeoff.  During flight, the plane's speed unloads the prop to probably around 8,000 or so rpm which is close to the max torque .  I aim for 2 or 3 clicks shy of top rpm, on the rich side
as most 4-stroker's recommend.   It seems to work for me and I get flight after flight in consistent runs.  I'm impressed, and so are people who see it fly. When I take the engine out of this bird, I'll take pictures and post them for you.  The whole thing was real easy to do.

I fly both 4-stroke and electric.  I flew 4-stroke in competition last year because I wanted to get educated about 4-stroke and compare its power the constant power of electric.
Both are similar in that there is no definitive 2-4 break as in 2-stroke glow engines that are muffled.  Pipes are probably a different breed variant.  I have enjoyed the ride, and
most importantly, I'm having fun.   I do not know what it is, but I absolutely love the sound of a properly set up 4-stroke.  And the power, well it's just ther, all the time, giving you constant attitude.   I actually did a 6 sec. lap speed reverse wing over with this bird.  I could not believe it with my own eyes.   I'm having FUN!!!!

If you have other questions, feel free to ask.  I'm not an authority, but my system works.

Thanks again,
Will Moore

Things take longer to happen than you think they will,

Then they happen much faster than you thought they could.
 AMA # 209

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22975
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2009, 08:54:51 AM »
The thing that amazed me the most about a four stroke, was if you got too lean it would just quit instead of burning itself down.  Bob has converted me to higher pitch props.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Martin Quartim

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 827
    • StuntHobby
Re: Another gray airplane
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 10:23:28 PM »
Hi Will,

Thank you for your reply.  I think I understand what you did.

The venturi you have is the original from Saito?

I have been using only TopFlite 14x6 with my Saito 72 and OS 70 Ultimate, but I will try a higher pitch prop one of these days to check it out.

Martin
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

https://www.youtube.com/user/martinSOLO

Tags: