Fox 15 Hurl

[BYU]

As only a second time Hurler, I am looking for a seasoned coach and also my very own hurling Fox 15. Which Fox 15 should I be looking to obtain? And what fees can I expect to pay to when I find a qualified coach?

Any useful input gratefully received.

[Larry Fernandez]

As only a second time Hurler, I am looking for a seasoned coach and also my very own hurling Fox 15. Which Fox 15 should I be looking to obtain? And what fees can I expect to pay to when I find a qualified coach?

Any useful input gratefully received.

The Fox .15 Slant plug is the official motor for the "Hurl"

It was rumored that a few years back, David Fitzgerald trained by "Hurling" Super Tigers .60s, three times a week.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Brett Buck]

The Fox .15 Slant plug is the official motor for the "Hurl"

It was rumored that a few years back, David Fitzgerald trained by "Hurling" Super Tigers .60s, three times a week.

    It didn't work.

    Brett

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Please, please, please!  Hurl them into shipping containers with my address on them, which I'll gladly provide ...

Brian here is one of many young men I've mentored over the years.  Several of them became quite proficient at starting and running the good 'ole Fox 15X, which resulted in them bringing home numerous trophies in .15 Combat and Goodyear Racing.  Nothing like leaving those SuperTigre G15s and other finicky engines behind in your exhaust!

Brian is also one of several who found a life-long interest, going on to become a Marine Corps and then corporate helicopter pilot.

Great engines!

Dennis

[john e. holliday]

It is true that the slant plug Fox 15 could be a bear to start.  But I remember George Watkins had one that started one or two flips every time he hooked the glow plug clip up.  I have started a couple for different people and thought they were a good sport engine when broken in right.

[Terrence Durrill]

The Fox .15 Slant plug is the official motor for the "Hurl"

It was rumored that a few years back, David Fitzgerald trained by "Hurling" Super Tigers .60s, three times a week.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

                             I thought that was Howard "the Nemesis" Rush .............. !            

[Dennis Leonhardi]

It is true that the slant plug Fox 15 could be a bear to start.  But I remember George Watkins had one that started one or two flips every time he hooked the glow plug clip up.  I have started a couple for different people and thought they were a good sport engine when broken in right.

Well, if 13 and 14-year-old kids could start, restart, and run them quite well ... just saying, ya know?!?  To most things there is a learning process.


 
Dennis

[Brett Buck]

Great engines!

  They really are great engines. The only issue we have ever identified is that their ballistic coefficient is too low. It's like trying to throw a ping-pong ball. In the extensive testing performed by the Hurl Committee, we have found that fulling the crankcase with a heavy, low-melting point material (typically, gold or gold-DU alloys) and nearly doubling the weight and makes it possible to tremendously increase the distance of the Hurl. This was in pursuit of our efforts to leave no stone unturned in both Hurl technology, and the purity of the event. This is why all engines are supplied by the Hurl Technical Standards department and are matched for both weight and drag coefficient. No personally-supplied engines are permitted, it's right there in Rule 5, Paragraph G.

    Note that the same testing proved explicitly what we had only previously guessed - plutonium filler material is not nearly as good as gold. It's fine, and there are no concerns with criticality, even with extremely high grade material. But the phase change characteristics are problematic, one shock (like from hitting the concrete circle-center pad, or one of the Hurl officials (accidentally or otherwise...)) can easily cause a change from alpha-phase to delta-phase, cracking the case and the liner as the metal expands.

   I would also add that the decision to control costs by developing our own testing facilities has shown itself to be wise decision, as controversial as it was. The cost of tunnel time at Ames had become prohibitive, and frankly, when our mutual support agreement with the IDTA fell through, our priority had slipped. Now, we can easily test whenever required, generate accurate results for rule-making guidance, and have reduced our cost-per-hour dramatically.

   It is quite gratifying to see all the interest in The Hurl. As Deputy Commissioner of the Hurl (self-appointed) I think I can speak for the members of the Hurl Committee when I say that we are humbled to see the card and letters of support. We couldn't do it without you!

     Brett

     

     

[FLOYD CARTER]

I must object to the (sometimes) disparaging remarks concerning the slant-plug Fox 15.

These were actually nice little engines, with no bad habits.

I flew one for 2 years beginning in 1962 in a Midwest  "Esquire" sport R/C.

On a later visit to England, I went to several contests with my little friend, 15 year old Alistair from Royal Leamington Spa.  He was getting started in R/C, so I mailed my Fox 15.  He reported using it with success.

[BYU]

Floyd I understand that mailing them is against the rules and they have to be thrown by each contestant. Nice idea though, you could get some real distance that way.

[Brett Buck]

I understand that mailing them is against the rules and they have to be thrown by each contestant. Nice idea though, you could get some real distance that way.

   Well, if you mean that you intend to mail them, and then count the mailing distance as your score, then of course, no, you can't do that. Rule 8 addresses all the legal methods of recording a score. Even David didn't try to pull that sort of crap.

    If you mean mailing them to someone to then hurl, tie to the railroad tracks, toss in a blast furnace, or drop from a very high place, that's both legal by federal statute and The Rules of the Hurl, and recommended.

    On the other hand, if you mail them to someone with the intent power a model airplane, then that is strictly AGAINST The Rules of the Hurl. It's *technically* still legal under Federal Law, however, not so if HB 17-228 passes (and we all pray it does). Under state/county/prefecture/local law, please consult the Hurl Committee, because we maintain a list of jurisdictions under which attempted use of the Fox 15 as a model airplane powerplant is prohibited, illegal, or a hate crime. I can only speak for myself, but it's also just plain wrong. Let your conscience be your guide.

     Brett

[Warren Walker]

   Well, if you mean that you intend to mail them, and then count the mailing distance as your score, then of course, no, you can't do that. Rule 8 addresses all the legal methods of recording a score. Even David didn't try to pull that sort of crap.

    If you mean mailing them to someone to then hurl, tie to the railroad tracks, toss in a blast furnace, or drop from a very high place, that's both legal by federal statute and The Rules of the Hurl, and recommended.

    On the other hand, if you mail them to someone with the intent power a model airplane, then that is strictly AGAINST The Rules of the Hurl. It's *technically* still legal under Federal Law, however, not so if HB 17-228 passes (and we all pray it does). Under state/county/prefecture/local law, please consult the Hurl Committee, because we maintain a list of jurisdictions under which attempted use of the Fox 15 as a model airplane powerplant is prohibited, illegal, or a hate crime. I can only speak for myself, but it's also just plain wrong. Let your conscience be your guide.

     Brett

Brett, all I can say is, Chu a funny guy.

W.W.

[Richard Logston]

I flew a Fox 15 rc in a Midwest Tri Squire back in the day with metal can Royal servos, activating rudder and three speed throttle control. That little engine ran very well and was easy starting. Don't understand the Hurl mentality. Richard

[Target]

Someone needs to sticky the story leading up to the very first fox hurl.
I never understood it myself until i read the story,  then,  since i run a boat with 4 main engines,  it makes prefect sense to me.
R,
Chris

[Brett Buck]

Someone needs to sticky the story leading up to the very first fox hurl.
I never understood it myself until i read the story,  then,  since i run a boat with 4 main engines,  it makes prefect sense to me.

    It is an epic tale of adventure, a nakedly, uncompromisingly,  true story with action, drama, pathos, and yes, even a laugh or two. Scholars rank it with any Homeric epic, but it probably closely corresponds to The Knight's Tale from Chaucer, with a little Beowulf thrown in.

     But forget the analogies to other, lesser, literary works, it's a classic and moving tale of a heroic man and his equally heroic son and their struggle against to succeed against the unforgiving forces of nature and the universe.  Are these forces merely harsh, or is there an actively evil force behind them? That is left to the philosophers.

   Regardless of the true nature of the universe, it would be worth knowing the story, if nothing else  to be able to understand the international phenomenon known as The Hurl.

     Brett

   

[Target]

I think I read the story in an old issue of Stunt News, which was gifted to me from a stunt oldtimer.
It was like watching a train wreck, I could NOT stop reading it until the last period of the last sentence....

[Mike Scholtes]

Thank goodness I lived long enough to see a reference to Chaucer AND Beowulf on Stunt Hangar! If anyone unearths the lost manuscript of "The Hurler's Tale" please post it here.

[Brett Buck]

Thank goodness I lived long enough to see a reference to Chaucer AND Beowulf on Stunt Hangar! If anyone unearths the lost manuscript of "The Hurler's Tale" please post it here.

   After extensive study, I would note that I disagree with the majority of Hurl literary scholars analogies, particularly with A Knight's Tale. Yes, after extensive struggle, everyone's prayers are answered  - Emelye by marrying someone who loved her, Palamon marrying his true love, and Arcite by winning (although ultimately it turned out to by phyrric, since he croaked almost immediately after the joust, basically going out as a punk by accident), Larry and Aaron finally achieving justice for their struggles and, effectively, for the entire CL event -  but the elements of personal conflict are sorely lacking.

    Old Man and the Sea seems more apt, a struggle between a man past-his-prime, assisted by a younger man, against a heartless nearly unslayable beast (the marlin). Larry is of course Santiago, Aaron is Manolin, and the Fox 15 as the fish that killed his dreams. The Hurl critics - those few miguided souls -  are the sharks that destroy the marlin before they get it ashore.

    In another, more important, way, Larry and Aaron overcome all obstacles and create the most beloved sporting event of all time to commemorate their triumphant victory. Hemingway just didn't think of that one. When he realized that he missed such an obvious outcome, well, you see what happened to him.

   Brett

[Mike Scholtes]

Don't overlook the parallel to Beowulf ripping off the arm of the monster Grendel, an apt storyline that perhaps is a cautionary tale warning of the rush towards ever-larger powerplants in CL stunt. Not sure how the heros Larry and Aaron fit in but I am sure they have a place.

[Brett Buck]

Don't overlook the parallel to Beowulf ripping off the arm of the monster Grendel, an apt storyline that perhaps is a cautionary tale warning of the rush towards ever-larger powerplants in CL stunt. Not sure how the heros Larry and Aaron fit in but I am sure they have a place.

     I made the same point in my article in the Oxford Literary Review. I also go on to note that this is the same allegorical point made when Hauptman Deitrich and Sgt. Troy decide to declare a truce to rescue a child from a well in Season 2, episode 1 of The Rat Patrol (oops, giving away the answers to The Hurl "associate directors" quiz, but of course, you already knew that...).

    As Deputy Commissioner (self-appointed), I certainly value the intellectual analysis associated with The Hurl. It makes a welcome break from having to tediously cite the rules to those looking, as they always do, for loopholes.

     I would also suggest you watch for my analysis of Gilligan's Island as a rather amusing take on Dante' in an upcoming issue of Journal of American Literature for further insights. If you thought The Skipper (gluttony) hitting Gilligan (Satan) on the head with his sailor cap (the Borgias) was merely a stupid sight gag, I think you will be pleasantly surprised!

     Brett
   
   

[Serge_Krauss]

I surrender, guys!

I never thought I'd get a kick (not yet a hurl) out of a Fox .15-hurl thread, but you got a smile out of me on this. If/when I fly my Fox .15's, I'll be better informed and perhaps inspired.  Great posts, Brett!

Edit: Also in all seriousness, thanks guys for the encouragement. I do look forward to enjoying my Fox .15's, with thanks to Jim Lee for my replacement .15x head shims like P.G.F. Chinn described.

SK

[bill bischoff]

How could anyone read all this and NOT want to hurl? 

[Terrence Durrill]

How could anyone read all this and NOT want to hurl? 

              Yes, I did and I have 9 Fox .15's ..... and I want to fly them rather than hurl !        

[dale gleason]

Many years ago, someone (me) posted a semi-true adventure that characterized the Cub .14 as a being a worthy alternative to the ubiquitous Fox 15 for Hurling. Expectedly, it was deleted within minutes of its posting. Having learned my lesson, I've sought repentance by gifting Fox 15s to those in need. The Hurling Rules are clear and concise, woe to those foolish enough to seek loopholes!

BTW...Is there a "Global Hurl"? "Hurl-a-Thon"?

[Brett Buck]

              Yes, I did and I have 9 Fox .15's ..... and I want to fly them rather than hurl !        

    You are indeed blessed, I only have 4 of them - so far....


    Brett

[dennis lipsett]

    You are indeed blessed, I only have 4 of them - so far....


    Brett

I notice that they are appropriately placed.

[Mike Scholtes]

What this tired and formulaic event needs to breathe new life into it is what all model events need: More classes!

Here are some ideas:

1. Jai Alai Hurl: Using the Basque Jai Alai xistera launcher, the contestant has a running start and then hurls the pelota (Fox 15) towards a wall where it rebounds, which rebound distance is the measured "Hurl Distance." This is the only way a Fox 15 will ever achieve 200 mph (not counting obvious cheats like "dropped from airplane at 10,000 feet"). Two teams of Jai Alai Hurlers could face off against each other, hurling the fox-pelota back and forth until one team or the other realized the whole enterprise was too silly to continue.

2. Rotator cuff handicapping: The hurler's age is multiplied by the number of rotator-cuff surgeries on the throwing arm, to arrive at a handicap figure. The actual distance thrown is then added to the handicap. In my case my age (69) time surgeries (2) gives me a 138-foot handicap, which when added to my likely actual hurl distance (10 feet) gives me a score of 148, pretty close to what the Buck-Fernandez-Fitzgerald types are doing.

3. Golf Hurl: Teeing up a Fox 15 and then smacking it with a golf driver should be good for some fun, though slices and hooks into car windshields could be a drawback. The clubs would have to be purchased at a thrift store for not over $5.

With new classes like these I can foresee at least one more person participating in this hoary spectacle.

Mikel Gorka Texteira-Scholtes

[Paul Walker]

Me thinks Lockheed is not working you hard enough!

[Brett Buck]

Me thinks Lockheed is not working you hard enough!

  Quite the contrary, excess work is causing my already questionable sanity to diverge even faster.

    Brett

[Ted Fancher]

snip

I flew one [Fox .15] for 2 years beginning in 1962 in a Midwest  "Esquire" sport R/C.

OMG, Floyd.  How much fuel did it require for a two year flight?  Was it FAI fuel to reduce the gallons required? How long was the takeoff roll?  Who fed you?  Did he/she/they get dizzy while doing so?  The sleep difficulties must have been overwhelming (coffee injections??? Pre Red Bull as you well know).  Finally, did you hurl the dang motor away afterward so you wouldn't be tempted to attempt to break your own record or did the act of throwing it lead to your later in life enamor-ation with "the Hurl" legend?

Inquiring minds want to know, especially the Hurl Committee which must, as you know, vote on all nominees for the "Hurl Hall of Fame".

Ted Fancher (Who, sadly, remains on the Hurling DL due to an earlier rotator cuff injury sustained while throwing 1/2oz five inch hand launched gliders at a San Jose WAM contest circa 1968-9.  Be thus informed: Organized Hurling is not for sissies!)

[Ted Fancher]

              Yes, I did and I have 9 Fox .15's ..... and I want to [fly them rather than hurl] !        

Fly?  Hurl? Aren't they, ultimately, the same thing?
 
You do realize that an Olympic class Hurler (not necessarily named Gialdini) can far exceed the maximum percentage of required orbital altitude and velocity attainable on 52' control lines attached to a Skyray.  The case made in favor of hurling is, thus, indisputable.

Why the quibbling over details?  Some underlying contrarian genetic permutation?

There's an app for that, you know.

Ted

[afml]

https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47274.0;attach=273407;image

Neat hair dryer Brett!
Oh wait......
Never mind.
"Tight Lines & straight hurling lines!"
Wes

[FLOYD CARTER]

OMG, Floyd.  How much fuel did it require for a two year flight?   

I agree.  A 2 year flight is difficult.  But, I had help.

I was permitted occasional "Power Naps"

I also insisted on a 1 hour break each afternoon to properly observe "Happy Hour".

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Not to stir the pot, but I really think the whole event needs a major overhaul.

To that end, I’m even thinking of declaring myself Chairman of the “Committee for the Study, Research, Development, Publication, Implementation and Enforcement of Hurl Rules”.  Someone more familiar with the history, traditions and culture of the competition needs to step up quickly ...

First, I really take issue with the choice of engine.  For cripes sake, a muffler for the old Fox 15X just sold for more than $33 on eBay!  Without any thought to the long-term effects of your current choice, you have created an artificial market for the engine which simply cannot be sustained while allowing sport flyers with smaller wallets to use the engine to fly in circles!

Should I choose to proceed with my above-referenced self-appointment, I would immediately change the engine choice to the Fox 35 Stunt.  Now, I can’t make any promises - having neither done the market research or spoken with Randy Linsalato - but surely we can assume MECOA would immediately resume production of that venerable engine, thereby serving to reduce the acquisition cost of BOTH the 15X AND the Stunt 35!  What greater good can be accomplished with just one simple rule change?!?

I will address the well-known caveat: the burp.  (Heaven knows, to speak of “burp” and “hurl” in the same discussion leads me to feel - in the words of a well-known public figure and obvious politician - “mildly nauseous”.  But it must be addressed.)

The obvious solution is to require that ALL engines used in The Hurl be stuffed.

And another facet that’s been completely missed to this point: a kinda BOM requirement!  I would require that all contestants submit a signed affidavit stating they, and only they, STUFFED THE ENGINE.  In other words, a SOTE (Stuffer Of The Engine) rule.  For crying out loud, what has been to this point in time to insure the purity of the event!?!

I believe anyone who considers these changes logically will agree they’re both needed and overdue.

So let’s get those Fox 35s stuffed!


Dennis

[Dane Martin]

I got two fox 15x's. I'll let go at the current market value.  $50 each.   

[Brent Williams]

The Fox 15 Hurl Chairman might consider adding an engine hurling device provision and/or event for those with shoulder problems.  Use of a Dog Ball Hurler Fox 15 Hurler...may prove to entice new competitors to the event.  An appropriate deduction of points would have to be factored vs arm power alone, as the increased leverage from the device could be considered unfair otherwise. 

There would/should be no "builder of the hurler" considerations for this event and it should thus be considered further for USA NATS  and FAI Hurling competition.  For example, the very nice Eastern European molded hurlers would then be allowed in US competition without a 20 point loss of appearance points or the runaround requirement of an ARC-like kit to be considered legal.  A true throwers event.  More than one competitor could use the same hurler.

[Terrence Durrill]

I got two fox 15x's. I'll let go at the current market value.  $50 each.   

               Wow.......what a bargain!.........With Fox out of the airplane engine business, you should be mobbed by antique "pickers".  After they grab your Fox .15's, I might consider letting my 9 go for the same great price....$50.00 each plus shipping, and I will even throw in an 8/4 prop with each.