For those who like smaller models...

[Dennis Adamisin]

I just heard from Jan at Brodak; they are introducing new kits: the 15 sized "Messerschmidtt ME-109" and "P-40 Tiger Shark".  These are updates on the old Sterling kits, I do not have all the specs yet but these are around 200 square inches, originally made for a 15-19, but today I'd bet one of today's .061's would do.  I remember my dad had a couple of the ME-109's with Fox 15 "steelfin" engines - they went like crazy and were a lot of fun.  He also had a Tiger Shark with one of the elliptical exhaust Enya 19's on it.

Jan was  putting the ME-109 kits together today, the first batch of P-40's will get boxed next week.  The they will not even be on the website for a little while.  However if you call and ask for one they can fix you up...

[Bill Mohrbacher]

Good news!  My first "big" plane (after Scientifics and Firebabys) was a Sterling ME 109 with a Veco 19; this in 1956 when the 19 just came out.  It had to have been way nose heavy, but we 12 year olds didn't worry about such things.  Learning to wet cover with silkspan and silk, rounding up steel lines, and breaking in and learning to run a .19 were larger concerns. Walking from home down to the ball field with that huge model the first time was a proud moment.  I flew heck out of that plane.  Loops, no doubt due to the nose heaviness, were huge, topping out behind my head, but landing with twists in my lines was proof of the pudding. 
Next summer was a Ringmaster and Fox 35.  Thank God we didn't know enough to worry about tip weight boxes, lap times, burping 35s, how lousy Fox NVAs were, that full size EZ Just handles were too big, and such.  Just grab some fuel, batteries, and lines and go have fun!

[john e. holliday]

Well said Bill.  Amazing how ignorant we were back then.   I remember my first contest and how much I did not know about model airplanes.   Guys/gals still look at me funny when I tell them you learn so much faster by attending contests and joining a club.   

[Brian Massey]

Amazing how ignorant we were back then.   

We've had the same conversation in our group. Just trot out with the Ringmaster (powered by a McCoy 35 in my case) and fly the cr*p out of it. Tip weight? Center of gravity? Line sweep??? Given all of that, I was pretty good at one manuver . . . pulling up when I got nervous flying inverted. Sure crushed a lot of Ringmasters that way.

Brian

[YakNine]

I hope they come out with a FW190, I have a few 15's looking for planes. I was in a 4-H model club and we all pretty much flew 1/2A Cl planes we pretty much all had Carl Goldberg Wizards or Jumping Beans and Cox Black Widows. We didn't know about cg wing incidence or prop pitch etc . Back then we never flew inverted intentionally our typical stunt repertoire was a loop and a figure 9. We were pretty happy if we flew out a tank without crashing but we had a ball. I still have a Wizard and a Jumping Bean that I have to finish the Wizard is more Ambroid than Balsa at this point and looking at it I am amazed it flew at all. T.J.   

[Dennis Adamisin]

I was 6-7 years old when my dad was flying the wings off his ME-109 A.  Dad & my older brothers & my uncle would be flying a whole fleet of 15 sized airplanes including the Circus Prince & Flying Clown with 1 or 2 oz tanks, burning up the better part of a gallon of Power Mist per flying session...

[Dan Bregar]

Dennis

"Power Mist"  was made by Francisco Fuels if I recall.  That goes back to the late 50's. Man your old Dennis. 

[Bill Mohrbacher]

Circus Prince?  Fox 29 power right?  Just back from Willow Grove Nats in 1957.  Now I'm 14 with my original AMA number.   Boy did PowerMist smell good!!

[Bill Little]

Circus Prince?  Fox 29 power right?  Just back from Willow Grove Nats in 1957.  Now I'm 14 with my original AMA number.   Boy did PowerMist smell good!!

Hi Bill,

I still have my Circus Prince from 1963!  Original engine was McCoy .19RH, then Fox .36X........     Going back with a Fox .15X that's a good runner.

Big Bear

[Bill Little]

Thanks for the heads up, Brother Denny!  My grandson will be needing a plane like those to step up from his Enterprise Sure Thing (w/OS .15LA)!  I have some OS Max .10S's and .10FP's that should do the trick.

Big Bear

[jim ivey]

I was @ the 57 nats (Blue and yellow T'Bird) missed the last 3 manuevers nats still won 3rd jr stunt .

[Dennis Adamisin]

Dennis

"Power Mist"  was made by Francisco Fuels if I recall.  That goes back to the late 50's. Man your old Dennis. 

GUILTY!  I am growing old, but I don't have to grow up!

[Dan Bregar]

Ha ! I'm never going to grow up.  And ya see I'm not really old enough to remember Power Mist "personally" I er ah ehem, have some older friends who told me about it, yeah that's it, my older friends told me about it.  Yeah, well maybe NOT.  I remember my older brothers using it when I was probably 7 or 8 yrs. old.  By the time I started flying on my own it was gone from the hobby shops. I remember it smelled good though. 

[jim gilmore]

200 sq. in sounds about right or an .061-.09
once i get back to my rv i am sure this will be added to my list.

[wwwarbird]

 Nice to see some new offerings in this size. I find that it's a nice break to do a small plane every so often, quicker, simple builds, and a lot of fun to fly.

[Larry Renger]

Isn't the Me 109 an old Midwest Kit?  I just bought one yesterday at a swap meet. Definitely Midwest! Did Sterling have one too?

This kit is 33" span and 224 sq.in.  Yes, built light, perfect for an AP Wasp .061

[Bill Mohrbacher]

 Sterling for sure.  I don't think it was even 30" span.  The balsa was so so, the die cutting typical lousy Sterling, and plywood doublers warped.  Nothing like Midwest quality.  And remember how the Sterling ribs couldn't fit the spar, LE and TE simultaneously?  NOT Midwest quality!

[Dennis Adamisin]

Larry
The Sterlings were offered in the mid to late 1950's.  I am pretty sure that they are smaller than the Midwests 15 size, but then again I though those were LARGER than 224 squares!

Kit S-7 was the "Curtiss P-40 Tiger Shark", I think it had an orange box
Kit S-8 was the "Messerschmidt ME-109", I think it had a purple box

[Larry Renger]

I'll have to look at some really old AHC ads and see if I can find them.  Totally news to me.  Midwest had the P-51, Magician, P-40 and Me-109 in .15 size, maybe more.  I learned the pattern on the little Magician, so I have a warm puddle in my heart for it.  Fox .15, too!

[dennis lipsett]

Larry
The Sterlings were offered in the mid to late 1950's.  I am pretty sure that they are smaller than the Midwests 15 size, but then again I though those were LARGER than 224 squares!

Kit S-7 was the "Curtiss P-40 Tiger Shark", I think it had an orange box
Kit S-8 was the "Messerschmidt ME-109", I think it had a purple box

As has been posted about typical Sterling quality, they were really flying rocks. Sterling didn't discontinue many models over their lifetime but these did not last long as production items.
I'd certainly build them with the intention of using a much smaller engine and keeping the weight down. Done that way you would probably have a winner.
Dennis

[Andrew Borgogna]

Hey Dennis have you started to think about an electric package for these planes?
Andy

[John Miller]

Brodak has an absolutley gorgeous Brodak .15 in stock. He's smart enough to know that there needs to be designs sized for these little gems. Keep your eyes open, there are some interesting items soon to be released.

[wwwarbird]

 I remember the 33" Midwest .15 size Warbirds, but I don't recall any in this size from Sterling. Does anyone here have any photos or more concrete details of the Sterling designs?

[Tim Wescott]

Hey Dennis have you started to think about an electric package for these planes?
Andy

I think he has: http://www.brodak.com/files/file/Arrowind_Power_Systems.pdf.  Look at the "sport 15".

[Dennis Adamisin]

Hey Dennis have you started to think about an electric package for these planes?
Andy

Andy - do you REALLY need to ask that???   

Seriously, I am going to start wiith the Pathfinder system with a 7x5 prop and go from there.  That should be pretty good on weight and power.

[Dennis Adamisin]

Did some digging, found a 1955 Sterling catalog, its a little grainy but check out the lower left corner of ad (pix 1).  I also received the pix from Brodak of their prototypes. 

Apparently the wingspan is only around 27", wing area is unstated but probably less than 200 squares..  The OLD Sterling ads claimed for 09-19 engines, I'd bet .06-10 modern engines would be closer.  Maybe a Medallion or Fox 15x (light!) would do the deed...

[Larry Renger]

Why would Brodak kit such wretched models when the Midwest ones are (still pretty wretched) so much better?  What a waste of time and balsa!  Who is advising this guy?  These designs are not only incredibly obscure, even Sterling bailed out of them ASAP!  Rare is one thing, junk is another.

The only possible salvation is if they re-structured the models to weigh 7 ounces and take an .061. THEN they would have something.  As long as the 3-view and airfoil are accurate, it qualifies for Classic or Old Time as needed.  Internal structure is not required to be the same. And it turns out that their Baby Clown is not terribly close to the dimensions of the original design. The guy responsible for the Brodak kit challenged me on this, saying he had a copy of the original kit in his car.  He did, we compared them, they were WAY off! However, since I had been allowing them to qualify for the Leprechaun "Pot 'o Gold" trophy, I have not only allowed it but have of of my own (.035 Diesel power about to be upgraded to .061 diesel).

I am all for reviving old designs, but there are so many with more merit that would be desirable.  The Wee Duper Zilch would fly loops around those Sterling models.  Kitted? NO!  Standard Clown, modified to use a .10 or .06, NO. How about the Shark .15?  That flew very, very well. 

Jr. Nobler? Yes as originally kitted it was a slug, but there is little wrong with the basic design. In fact, a lightened (but accurate by the above standards) versions is in my building que. I have a mold for the canopy, scanned and physically copied plans, scans of the die-crunched wood.  When I get through, it will be (accurate and legal) light and compettive.  I will put on a Medallion or Tee Dee .15 engine.  Actually, the size is just fine for an OS 10 fp, but that isn't a Classic engine, though it would be a better choice for regular competition. (You could always g0 electric and get lynched!)

If I were designing a .15 model today (I plan to next week  ) it would be about 325 sq.in., have working flaps and have the "numbers" of whatever Dave Fitzgerald is flying.  Stability scales very accurately, although wing loading doesn't. And I know how to scale wing loading. 

[John Miller]

Snip
Jr. Nobler? Yes as originally kitted it was a slug, but there is little wrong with the basic design.

If I were designing a .15 model today (I plan to next week  ) it would be about 325 sq.in., have working flaps and have the "numbers" of whatever Dave Fitzgerald is flying.  Stability scales very accurately, although wing loading doesn't. And I know how to scale wing loading. 

Keep your eyes peelrd Larry.......

[Terrence Durrill]

I built a Sterling ME-109 in 1956 and powered it with a K&B Torpedo .15 greenhead. The entire plane was covered with red silkspan salvaged from an old Guillows REACTOR kit. The Torp was a light engine which allowed the plane to balance o.k., however the high wing loading made all maneuvers VERY WIDE. It was still a fun airplane.....just required more attention to making sure you had enough altitude when you attemped anything fancier than flying level. What an airplane! Would I build another? Well, I have a Torpedo .15 greenhead in good condition.....MAYBE, just for nostalgia's sake............TDurrill                 

 

[John Miller]

I'm aware of at least two, possibly 3 designs either committed to, or in consideration at this time. 2 of these are modern designs, sized correctly for todays .15s. Here's a jpeg of the plans for the Brodak Jr. Nobler for you to look at.

[dennis lipsett]

It may be of interest to know that John  Brodak can kit the Shark and the Jr Magician. I have been continuously puzzled as to why when he introduced his 15 engine he didn't offer these. At 34/35 inch w/s and sufficient wing area they are light years ahead of most of the old dogs that are continuously regurgitated.
The Jr Nobler still is in my opinion the ugliest 15 model ever kitted. Granted it flies well even with a pitiful Fox 15 steel fin.
Frankly with all of the more modern sized models that have been made since we left the 50/60s behind it really is time to start making models that are relevent to our current far superior engines/receding reaction times/eyesight/ and stanima and stop making duds. Childhood memories are nice but they lose luster when revived when your an O.R.F.
All questionable comments apply equally to me. LOL


Dennis

[Dennis Adamisin]

I guess I would offer up that not every airplane is a stunt model.  From the posts here it seems a  lot of people have had a lot of fun with some really not-so -good airplanes way back when, they can again.  Then there are folks like be willing to gamble that I can FIND a way to get performance never before seen by going LIGHT with good power.

Example, I have a Circus Prince that I converted to a very powerful electric system.  Had a 20 oz flying weight with an 8x4 prop.  Flew it full throttle at about 4.0 lap times on 60' eye to eye lines.  Was manuverable - sort of - but also stalled easy.  It would do the neatest 16 sided (or so) loops, continuously turning-stalling-going straight then turning-stalling-going straight etc all the way around the loop.  I have now re-powered it with the power system from the 1/2A power system with a 7x5 prop.  Took about 4 oz off it - that is reduced the flying weight by 20% with all the weight coming off ahead of the LE.  I have not flown it yet but will be using 52' lines - I'm optimisitc.

As you know I am ENTHUSIASTIC about the 1/2A Pathfinder; its a real stunt plane.  It is also the same size as the Magician 15 and Akromaster I have in the works.  I am optimisitic that these will also be good stunt models.

The Jr Nobler was designed for AYSC comps and thus configured was not really a stunt model.  However with modern engines & such it should be a pretty darned good machine!

[wwwarbird]

I guess I would offer up that not every airplane is a stunt model.  From the posts here it seems a lot of people have had a lot of fun with some really not-so-good airplanes way back when, they can again. 

 Excellent point above Dennis, too often missed. There are people out here who build and fly simply for the fun of it.

 I will say that personally, I would be much more likely to buy repros of the 33" Midwest planes as opposed to these Sterling designs. I imagine it all comes down to what the manufacturer has the rights to produce. I'm always happy to see any new kit introductions.

[dennis lipsett]

Excellent point above Dennis, too often missed. There are people out here who build and fly simply for the fun of it.

 I will say that personally, I would be much more likely to buy repros of the 33" Midwest planes as opposed to these Sterling designs. I imagine it all comes down to what the manufacturer has the rights to produce. I'm always happy to see any new kit introductions.

Wayne,

Larry Richards made beautiful hand cut kits of the Midwest profile warbirds. Both sizes. Perhaps the rarest one was one that Midwest never produced.  He scaled down the Skyraider to 15 size and sold a few. How few, i asked him and he said that he made 9. I have one and wonder who got the other eight.

Dennis

[Larry Renger]

Another scale-down to note is the Baby Magician I published in Flying Models some years ago.  Plans readily available.  The local guys have built several and swear by them.  RSM has the cut file for the lazy among us.....  

Brodak has the actual rights to do a Baby Magician, but mine is a VERY accurate scale of the .35 model as originally designed and prototyped, rather than what Midwest kitted.  And I have the documentation to prove it!  Yes, I got permission from both the designer and Midwest before proceeding to publish.

If Brodak ever does kit a Baby Magician, I bet it isn't as accurate!  Probably, they will use the same wing structure as the Baby Lightning and Baby Clown.  Again...  

Mind you, I have now had 3 Baby Clowns from Brodak, and they fly well.  But in my opinion, using that wing on a Baby Magician would be a mistake.  I hereby grant free use of my design to John for kitting purposes.  ( I would like the first kit off the line as a friendly gesture, though ).  I have had a good relationship with John, and, in fact, designed his reed engine plastic mount.

[Bob Reeves]

This is another 15 size kit Brodak should be releasing shortly. It was originally designed for 15 Carrier but built light and with a strong 15 it will tear holes in the sky as well as any sport airplane.

[John Miller]

Bob, this is great to see that your Sabre is to be kitted. I'll bet it will be one of the top kits for this size power, in the line.

[John Miller]

I guess I can let the news out that John has decided to kit the Zweipanzerflug, which uses a pair of .15s.

[Larry Renger]

Way cool, John!  Scale it down to a pair of .049s and you can fly it in 1cc.

[Bill Mohrbacher]

I guess I would offer up that not every airplane is a stunt model.  From the posts here it seems a  lot of people have had a lot of fun with some really not-so -good airplanes way back when, they can again.

 Well said Dennis.  There could be a lot of kids who are thrilled to fly around and do high pass wingovers even with no tip weight box, adjustable leadouts, and burping Foxes.  When you get gray hair you can worry about such things.  The trick is to get the kids there.

[Dennis Adamisin]

I guess I can let the news out that John has decided to kit the Zweipanzerflug, which uses a pair of .15s.

That sounds great!  Gotta have one.  Gotta have a Jr Nobler.  Gotta have a.... my building to-do list is getting way tooooooo long..! 

[John Miller]

Way cool, John!  Scale it down to a pair of .049s and you can fly it in 1cc.

Thanks Larry, and ,,,,,,, funny you should say that.

[Lee Thiel]

Bob Reeves' plane is a FJ4.  Great flying plane.
Lee, TGD

[Dennis Adamisin]

This is another 15 size kit Brodak should be releasing shortly. It was originally designed for 15 Carrier but built light and with a strong 15 it will tear holes in the sky as well as any sport airplane.

Bob:
CONGRATS!  Does the Fury have a symeterical airfoil?  Maybe more important, have you found a 15 4-stroker???

[Bob Reeves]

Bob:
CONGRATS!  Does the Fury have a symeterical airfoil?  Maybe more important, have you found a 15 4-stroker???

Yep it's symeterical, 230 sq/inches 32" wing span. As much as it hurt, had to settle for a two stroke 

 

[Tom Niebuhr]

Weren't we talking about an event for .25 max just a few weeks ago?

[wwwarbird]

Yep it's symeterical, 230 sq/inches 32" wing span. As much as it hurt, had to settle for a two stroke 

 

 At least you didn't go electric.

[Bill Little]

I believe a few have hit the nail on the head and explained that not every kit is meant to be A Team Trials contender in CLPA.  Hopefully there are thousands more who "fun fly" than there are those of us who compete in contests. 

A model from our youth, if it can only go around in laps and maybe do a loop or lazy 8, can bring a LOT of enjoyment to us old geezers.....

Big Bear

[Tim Wescott]

I believe a few have hit the nail on the head and explained that not every kit is meant to be A Team Trials contender in CLPA.  Hopefully there are thousands more who "fun fly" than there are those of us who compete in contests. 

Does this mean I have to give up on my dream of flying a semi-scale stunt Piper Cub in competition?

A model from our youth, if it can only go around in laps and maybe do a loop or lazy 8, can bring a LOT of enjoyment to us old geezers.....

Hey!  I haven't nearly attained geezerhood, and I still have fun with "lesser" models!  Don't go taking that away!

[Larry Renger]

Isn't the term "Semi-stunt scale"?  Actually there is one major known exception, Trostle's Bearcat; it don't give up nuttin' to NObody!