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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: peabody on April 27, 2013, 02:20:43 PM
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Al D'Amato kept the F-14 in the Navy inventory for almost a decade after the Navy said they would use F-19's......
But it's a nifty film....
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Jw-jU9pnGhU?feature=player_embedded
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I was back in Lexington, KY visiting my parents and stopped by the Aviation Museum of KY and they have a F-14 on display.
Didn't realize how LARGE it is up close, still trying to figure out where the fuel tanks are? Turtledeck?
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Hi Rich;
You mean F-18's, don't you? The F-14 was a great airplane, typical of the Grumman Iron Works. But to give credit where credit is due check out the following: Total air to air victories for the F-14, two. Total air to air victories for the F-4 Phantom, 318, I believe. I may be biased living within a stones throw of the factory where they are made, but if I were a fighter pilot and had to fly into battle and could pick my ride, it would be a McDonnell-Douglas product, F-4, F-15, F-18!
Punch us out, Goose!
Dan McEntee
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Hi Dan.....yup F 18
The Intrepid has a Super F-14 on its deck (re-engine....runs faster, jumps higher, like US Keds)....the Cradle Of Aviation on Long Island has a bunch or Grumman prototypes as well.
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The "Tom Cat" is one amazing fighter.
Have the plans to build Vic Macaluso F14 VD~
I guess I've watched topgun too many times... :)! LL~
Marcus
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Yeah Chief, it IS dark, and when there are 4 stoofs ready for launch and eight props just looking for some poor twidget to carve up when he's trying to find the hatch on one so he can troubleshoot a radio - oooohhboyooboyoboy, THAT is intensity!
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One of those planes was on I had worked on. Marking red-white-blue strip diagonally on the nose was my design and squadron.The shot is below decks in the hangar bay.
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Hi Rich;
You mean F-18's, don't you? The F-14 was a great airplane, typical of the Grumman Iron Works. But to give credit where credit is due check out the following: Total air to air victories for the F-14, two. Total air to air victories for the F-4 Phantom, 318, I believe. I may be biased living within a stones throw of the factory where they are made, but if I were a fighter pilot and had to fly into battle and could pick my ride, it would be a McDonnell-Douglas product, F-4, F-15, F-18!
Punch us out, Goose!
Dan McEntee
[/quote
F-4 Phantom..."Last of the real Steam Locomotives." "Iron Butterfly." 555th/13th TFW, Udorn, 33rd TFW, Eglin.
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Hi Rich;
You mean F-18's, don't you? The F-14 was a great airplane, typical of the Grumman Iron Works. But to give credit where credit is due check out the following: Total air to air victories for the F-14, two. Total air to air victories for the F-4 Phantom, 318, I believe. I may be biased living within a stones throw of the factory where they are made, but if I were a fighter pilot and had to fly into battle and could pick my ride, it would be a McDonnell-Douglas product, F-4, F-15, F-18!
Punch us out, Goose!
Dan McEntee
I have nothing but great respect to the Navy pilots and their aircraft. But I just want to add a couple of notes to this.
From a McDonnell Douglas dictionary--
Phantom: The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics.
An interesting sidebar: The score card of the F-15 as of about a month ago is 106 to 0.
Keith
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I was in the USAF from 1970 to 1977. The B-52, KC-135, T-38, C-130, AIM-7, and AIM-9 were all there before I got there and thery're still flying today.
I am amazed that I saw the early flights of the A-7, A-9, and A-10 as well as the F-14 and they're already in museums. Our at Selfridge, our Stratotankeres are still flying over the museum of fighters it refueled.
Despite millions spent on Navy propaganda, the F-14 was a loser from DAY ONE. When they saw the F-15 they saw the error of their ways. The F-18 is The Navy's way of buying an F-15 without the Air Force name. You don't need swing wings when you have enough power to take off vertical.
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I am hoping to jet to Michigan this year to see the Dearborn Museum and then travel to Kalamazoo to see the Air Zoo....
It's a shame that Museums and sites that displayed historic aircraft are going by the wayside.....
Clearwater, FL used to have some nice pieces on display....but lack of funding resulted in several of the airplane that were on display being shoved into the Gulf for divers and fish to explore...
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I think the A-6 and the A-7 look so cool. Especially that shot from under the A-6 loaded up and ready to deliver....
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Despite millions spent on Navy propaganda, the F-14 was a loser from DAY ONE. When they saw the F-15 they saw the error of their ways. The F-18 is The Navy's way of buying an F-15 without the Air Force name. You don't need swing wings when you have enough power to take off vertical.
Huh? IIRC the F-14 was designed around the Phoenix missile system which is a very big, and heavy missile. At the time, the greatest threat against a carrier was anti-ship missiles. The Phoenix was a fire, and forget missile, and allowed the RIO to engage 6 different targets at once, including anti shipping missiles. The Phoenix was the only A to A missile at the time capable of this. Not having the luxury of mile long runways, probably made the swing wing a great choice. The introduction of the Aegis cruiser to the carrier group made this all a moot point.
Gonzo
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As I recall it, the F-14 was the result of an early attempt at a "joint services fighter". The concept of the "Joint Strike Fighter" isn't new, as all branches of the military used the F-4 Phantom. The Navy and the Air Force couldn't get together on requirements, so the Navy went with the F-14 from Grumman, and the Air Force side developed into the F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber from General Dynamics, which if you recall also had a swing wing. This is a simplistic explanation but in the neighborhood as I remember reading about it. The F-14 is unique in that it was never sold, or even offered if I remember correctly, to any other foreign countries in any form, possibly because of it's use of the Phoenix missile system and our government's desire to keep that all to ourselves. Man, that's been a long time ago!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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. . . The F-14 is unique in that it was never sold, or even offered if I remember correctly, to any other foreign countries in any form, possibly because of it's use of the Phoenix missile system and our government's desire to keep that all to ourselves. Man, that's been a long time ago!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
F-14s were sold (given?) to Iran when the Shah was still running the place. Doubt if they got the Phoenix missiles though. Also doubt if many - if any - are still flyable.
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Believe it or not, I actually had all the 1/10 scale "factory" drawings and sheets for their F-14. Not model airplane stuff, but the actual real blueprints and drawings. Couple of views and about 8 or 9 sheets total. ;D
How did I get them?
You would be surprised at how high a fence you can vault over while being chased by well trained guard dogs. n~
I'm kidding, JUST KIDDING!! LL~
They were sent to me by a guy that needed graphics. Have absolutely no Idea where he got them and he didn't want them back?
Sold them to a modeler on RCU.
Made out at both ends. Generally don't. #^
True! Really.
Charles
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F-14s were sold (given?) to Iran when the Shah was still running the place. Doubt if they got the Phoenix missiles though. Also doubt if many - if any - are still flyable.
I was stationed at Andrews AFB (next to DC) when the Shah visited to have flight demonstrations of the F-14 and the F-15 and I was able to observe the flights. This was early in the flight test programs for both aircraft, but the F-14 had its first flight almost a year and a half before the F-15. Both aircraft used for the demonstration flights were pre-production test ships, the F-15's first flight was only several months prior to the Shah demonstration. In fact the F-15 did not have all of its flight envelope opened yet and could not show its impressive max performance takeoff where it can be airborne and accelerate straight up half way down the runway. The F-14 was impressive with some high-G turns and it showed its swinging wings on a low pass. The Shah (who was a pilot) sat in both airplanes. Anyway, 79 F-14's were delivered to Iran. After the Shah's overthrow and by the end of the Carter administration, the Iranian F-14's were essentially grounded for lack of spare parts.
The F-15 in its air superiority role, fully armed and fueled has a thrust to weight ratio of more than one at takeoff.
The F-15 still holds several time to climb records set in January, 1975. These are timed from a standing start. One of those records is to 3,000 meters (9,842 ft) in 27.57 seconds. Another one to 6,000 meters (19,685 ft) in 39.33 seconds. (The F-22 can do even better if they would ever turn it loose.)
Keith
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As I recall it, the F-14 was the result of an early attempt at a "joint services fighter". The concept of the "Joint Strike Fighter" isn't new, as all branches of the military used the F-4 Phantom. The Navy and the Air Force couldn't get together on requirements, so the Navy went with the F-14 from Grumman, and the Air Force side developed into the F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber from General Dynamics, which if you recall also had a swing wing. This is a simplistic explanation but in the neighborhood as I remember reading about it. The F-14 is unique in that it was never sold, or even offered if I remember correctly, to any other foreign countries in any form, possibly because of it's use of the Phoenix missile system and our government's desire to keep that all to ourselves. Man, that's been a long time ago!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Dan,
Not trying to argue, but---
The F-111 was the attempt by the Defense Department (when MacNamara was SecDef) for an all purpose joint service aircraft. It was to fill the fighter and bomber roles and other multipurpose missions for both services. It got too heavy for carrier operations so the Navy opted out. The Air Force ended up buying it as a bomber and later as an EW aircraft, roles which it performed well at. The F-111 program first flew almost 17 years before the F-14. The Navy started their F-14 program for fleet air defense and the Air Force initiated its F-15 to be optimized for the air superiority role. There is lot more to these stories.
Keith
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The F-14 is also a far superior plane to the F111, I imagine that if the F14 was put in the same situations- places that the F15 had all of its victories, the F14 would have about the same record. I once saw an F14 takeoff and about half field rotate and go straight up almost out of site, This was at Dobbins AFB and it was very impressive, and very loud. The plane was not close to fully loaded.
Randy
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When "we" pulled out of Iran, the Grumman techs made sure the F 14's would never be combat capable again. They, in essence, sabotaged the F 14 electronics package. I still have some Iranian Airforce F 14 decals. H^^
Those Grumman techs can't have done a very good job then, as the Iranian F-14s were operational throughout the Iran/Iraq war, and supposedly scored 150+ kills against Mig 21/23/25, Mirage F1, Su-17 etc.
BTW they got Phoenix also - bet someone was kicking themselves over that by late 1979. HB~>
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. . . the Iranian F-14s were operational throughout the Iran/Iraq war, and supposedly scored 150+ kills against Mig 21/23/25, Mirage F1, Su-17 etc.
BTW they got Phoenix also . . .
Documented proof of those claims? Sounds suspiciously like Iranian propaganda. "150+ kills"? Will believe that when we see some hard evidence.
Also doubt they got the Phoenix. Again...what's the source of that info?
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Documented proof of those claims? Sounds suspiciously like Iranian propaganda. "150+ kills"? Will believe that when we see some hard evidence.
Also doubt they got the Phoenix. Again...what's the source of that info?
I doubt you'd ever be able to verify the '150+ kills' - there's too little hard information, and between the Iraqis and Iranians, too much propaganda. (Which is why I wrote 'supposedly' ;)). Still, that was from a Western assessment, and I'm willing to believe that an Air Force which had no doubt benefited from significant American training input, and was operating F-14s, would be able to account for a few Migs and Sukhois.
As for whether they had the Phoenix, the acquisition is well-documented and you can find it easily from multiple sources if you can be bothered.
You might find this interesting. It's from the Smithsonian; you'd be better qualified than I would to say how much is propaganda. http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/persiancats.html?c=y&page=1&device=ipad
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Moot point. It's all ancient history, tainted by absurd claims on both sides. Actually, neither would have had a snowball's chance against U.S. or Israeli F-15s.
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Or even a EJ-model F-4...in the right hands. H^^
Moot point. It's all ancient history, tainted by absurd claims on both sides. Actually, neither would have had a snowball's chance against U.S. or Israeli F-15s.