Author Topic: Flying Otto with Allan (Read 1665 times)

Mike Griffin · « **on:** July 11, 2021, 05:55:30 PM »

Allan Perret was a close friend and the one who talked me into kitting Otto the Giro. Allan designed all the jigs to put on my band saw when we were cutting angles on the rotor blades. He also designed the rotor hubs for me that held the blades. We had so much fun doing all that and I still miss him very much.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:18:57 PM »

Can't open video - says "PRIVATE"

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:53:33 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on July 11, 2021, 06:18:57 PM

Can't open video - says "PRIVATE"

Same here.

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on July 11, 2021, 06:18:57 PM

Can't open video - says "PRIVATE"

Sorry Bob. I had it as private accidentally. Just made it public.. Try it now

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:30:59 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on July 11, 2021, 07:53:33 PM

Same here.

Sorry, I had it as Private. Just made it public... try again.

Mike

Peter in Fairfax, VA · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:11:13 PM »

Video works great at this time, as does the plane in flight. I will admit that I skipped forward until right before launch signal. That said, still curious as to the hub design.

Paul Wescott · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2021, 09:16:39 AM »

Quote from: Peter in Fairfax, VA on July 11, 2021, 09:11:13 PM

…That said, still curious as to the hub design.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7346

john e. holliday · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:50:39 PM »

I need to get off my duff and get my kit put together.

big ron · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:53:45 PM »

I have that OTTO Giro

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2021, 01:40:55 PM »

Quote from: Peter in Fairfax, VA on July 11, 2021, 09:11:13 PM

Video works great at this time, as does the plane in flight. I will admit that I skipped forward until right before launch signal. That said, still curious as to the hub design.

Peter, the hub was designed and cut by Allan out of polypropylene material. It was quite ingenious and Allan was a master at doing things like that.

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 12, 2021, 01:42:21 PM »

Quote from: Paul Wescott on July 12, 2021, 09:16:39 AM

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7346

Hi Paul,

The hub design shown in this plan is not the hub Allan and I designed and put in the kit.

Mike

Brent Rogillio · « **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2021, 05:41:20 PM »

Mike thanks for sharing the video. We all miss Allen

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2021, 06:12:12 PM »

Quote from: Mike Griffin on July 12, 2021, 01:40:55 PM

Peter, the hub was designed and cut by Allan out of polypropylene material. It was quite ingenious and Allan was a master at doing things like that.

Mike

The one on the plan should work OK, shouldn't it? You just just make the change for ease of production and such, correct? Should be OK for a one off scratch build.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

James Lee · « **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2021, 06:41:02 PM »

Dan
The one on the plan is Dick Mathis' original hub.... I have used it on my 'Otto' since 1975 and three or four different rotors.... Works great!
Jim

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2021, 06:53:13 PM »

Good video! Really surprised the rotor is not spinning faster - looks like it is not providing any (?) lift.

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:29:36 PM »

The easiest way to explain these rotor hubs is to just show them. This way you can see how the sanded to shape rotor blades fit into the hub. We simply expoxied the 3/8 thick rotor blades into the hub and they were automatically set at the proper angle. There was a 1/8" hole drilled in the center of the hub and you dropped in right over the 1/8" piece of music wire and it was held in place with wheel collars. Hope this helps . Here are the pictures

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:30:53 PM »

The genius in these hubs was how Allan designed a jig to cut multiple hubs.

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:32:49 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on July 12, 2021, 06:12:12 PM

The one on the plan should work OK, shouldn't it? You just just make the change for ease of production and such, correct? Should be OK for a one off scratch build.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Hi Dan,

Sure the one on the plan would work. This we thought was just much easier for the builder and the work was already done. All you had to do was insert the rotor blades and glue them in.

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:35:34 PM »

By the way, the Otto kit was the biggest selling kit I ever produced. It even outsold the IMITATION kits. Eric Rule did the cad work for me after I conferred with Dick Mathis. Eric was stunned by the amount of orders I got for cutting. Ask him sometime. LOL

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:55:15 PM »

After Allan died, the jig he developed to cut the leading and trailing edge on the rotor blades and the jig to cut the hub angles, somehow disappeared. We never did find out what happened to them.

Mike

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2021, 08:45:03 PM »

Got your message, Mike.
Thanks for posting that great video - it really impressed me as the only autogyro I've ever seen was a real one.
It flew over me in the Philadelphia area.
Really strange sound.

Bob Z.

Paul Wescott · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2021, 04:37:40 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on July 12, 2021, 06:53:13 PM

Good video! Really surprised the rotor is not spinning faster - looks like it is not providing any (?) lift.

The rotor is spinning faster than you think. Look up “Wagon Wheel Effect” on Wikipedia. The visual position of the rotor (what you see) is affected by the frame rate of the video camera taking the video, and sometimes a second time by the compression software and/or video player being used. Wagon wheels in old movies sometimes looked like they were going backwards because of the frame rate of the movie projector.

So the rotor that seems to be rotating too slowly was actually probably more like a blur as seen in person. Build one and find out for sure LOL.

Paul W.

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2021, 06:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Paul Wescott on July 14, 2021, 04:37:40 PM

The rotor is spinning faster than you think. Look up “Wagon Wheel Effect” on Wikipedia. The visual position of the rotor (what you see) is affected by the frame rate of the video camera taking the video, and sometimes a second time by the compression software and/or video player being used. Wagon wheels in old movies sometimes looked like they were going backwards because of the frame rate of the movie projector.

So the rotor that seems to be rotating too slowly was actually probably more like a blur as seen in person. Build one and find out for sure LOL.

Paul W.

Paul you are exactly right. I was going to say that but you beat me to it. When we were flying them, the rotor blades were a blur.

Mike

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2021, 06:22:41 PM »

Quote from: Paul Wescott on July 14, 2021, 04:37:40 PM

The rotor is spinning faster than you think. Look up “Wagon Wheel Effect” on Wikipedia. The visual position of the rotor (what you see) is affected by the frame rate of the video camera taking the video, and sometimes a second time by the compression software and/or video player being used. Wagon wheels in old movies sometimes looked like they were going backwards because of the frame rate of the movie projector.

So the rotor that seems to be rotating too slowly was actually probably more like a blur as seen in person. Build one and find out for sure LOL.

Paul W.

DOH! Of course, I should have realized that. I did not see any transitional "blur" so that threw me, plus on the touch-n-goes the rotor spin became immediately visible. Don't know about building one, but I saved my dad's Edco Autogyro that he built around 1960 or so. Wonder if the rotor would stay together after 60 years?

Dan Berry · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2021, 08:01:56 AM »

Some years ago I saw the video of Allan flying the 1/2A version where I could swear it did an outside loop.
I contacted Allan and asked if I could borrow the 1/2A and fly it at SMALL.
He didn't know me too well but at no small expense he shipped it to me. It was big hit at SMALL that year although no outside loops were made.
When I heard of his passing I was deeply saddened.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #25 on:** July 17, 2021, 02:49:47 PM »

You guys talking about the rotor turning slowly or stopping even going back wards. I have noticed on all digital videos the props of planes turn slowly or stop and on landing the wheels even turn backwards. I have been watching a lot of digital videos of planes and race cars. It must be the electronics of the videos that cause that. But then again old movies it looked like wheel were moving in the wrong direction.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #26 on:** July 17, 2021, 06:19:21 PM »

Mike, that was too cool. Ken

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2021, 07:07:11 AM »

Nice video and memories, Mike! Allan seemed to be a creative and generous modeler in the only couple of times we communicated.

We've had at least a couple good Otto's here with the North Coast club, both by really good builders. Gary Hull's half-A and Dave Rigotti's larger version each flew well right off the building board. 'neat design and fun!

Jim Carter · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2021, 11:26:59 AM »

Are any of the kits still available? If so, where can a person order one and how much will it cost?

pat king · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2021, 08:39:01 PM »

I sell laser cut kits for the Baby Ringmaster Gyro and the Ringmaster Gyro. The Baby will do inside loops very easily. I do not believe that an autogyro can be put in a negative G situation without a crash.

The Baby Ringmaster Gyro Kit lists for $51.64 plus shipping.
The Ringmaster Gyro Kits list for $99.25 plus shipping.
The electric version of the Ringmaster Gyro lists for $109.25 plus shipping.
Send me an email at: patdk@aol.com with your zip code and I will quote shipping. Active duty military and first responders get a 15% discount on the kit costs. Veterans and past first responders get a 10% discount on the kit costs.

Pat

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2021, 10:58:06 PM »

Jim the kits that Pat produces are top quality and fly very well. I kitted the Otto the Gyro several years ago with the permission of Dick Mathis and that kit is no longer available.

Mike

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2021, 11:03:04 PM »

Quote from: Serge_Krauss on July 22, 2021, 07:07:11 AM

Nice video and memories, Mike! Allan seemed to be a creative and generous modeler in the only couple of times we communicated.

We've had at least a couple good Otto's here with the North Coast club, both by really good builders. Gary Hull's half-A and Dave Rigotti's larger version each flew well right off the building board. 'neat design and fun!

Hi Serge,

Your observation about Allan was right on. He was very creative and I wish everyone could have seen some of the things he came up with. When he died it left a big hole in all of hearts in the club. We still miss him to this day.

Mike

john e. holliday · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2021, 07:58:02 AM »

Pat does great work. the only problem we had was the USPS putting the package on the shelf instead of the truck.
In fact all these guys put out great kits, Walter Umland, Pat, RSM, Brodak, SIG, Mike and those that don't produce kits any more because politics have put prices out of range. In one of the early issues of Model Aircraft Sig had a small ad that I thought was exspensive until I went to local hobbu shop back then . 1/16 sq balsa 3 strips for a penny plus postage. Can't remember if he had minimum order.