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Author Topic: Flying on Water  (Read 12260 times)

Offline Chris Fretz

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Flying on Water
« on: July 13, 2016, 07:14:42 AM »
Anyone ever try flying in the middle of a fairly shallow Creek or River? Do you think you could stunt with pontoons?
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 07:53:14 AM »
That is something I've wanted to try also. I wanted to get this kit from hobby people to try it out by converting it to CL. Also, from my rc days, I know you can spray pam on the pontoons and fly off grass just as easy!

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/miss-orleans-seaplane-ep-gp-wood-airplane-kit.html

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 08:38:28 AM »
That is something I've wanted to try also. I wanted to get this kit from hobby people to try it out by converting it to CL. Also, from my rc days, I know you can spray pam on the pontoons and fly off grass just as easy!

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/miss-orleans-seaplane-ep-gp-wood-airplane-kit.html
We can do this LL~  I wanted to slap some pontoons on a beat up Estes Ringmaster an try it. Just don't know where to get some cheap light pontoons.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 07:12:32 PM by #Liner »
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 08:41:21 AM »
That is something I've wanted to try also. I wanted to get this kit from hobby people to try it out by converting it to CL. Also, from my rc days, I know you can spray pam on the pontoons and fly off grass just as easy!

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/miss-orleans-seaplane-ep-gp-wood-airplane-kit.html
Wow that thing is big, I guess if your going to do it go all out right!
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 09:29:28 AM »

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 09:57:57 AM »
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 10:09:41 AM »
Back around 2000 at the NW Regionals (roseburg, Oregon) there was a CL float pond created and we hosted several events at the site. It was a 180 degree arc of water and we flew everything from large CL scale models to stunt models with floats. We even flew 1/2a models with floats and then my 80" Piper cub had floats on it. at one point we had 14 planes with floats on it at the site.

It is very possible but a river that is moving would be a problem. If you were on the lakeshore that had clearance along the shoreline that would be best. 1/2 over water, the 1/2 over land. Landing gets tricky because you need to land on the water unless you want to refinish your floats.

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Offline Chris Fretz

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Offline John Park

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 10:13:24 AM »
How about this? http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3751

I suppose some sort of three-line system for throttle control must still exist for Carrier flying.
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 10:14:16 AM »
Back around 2000 at the NW Regionals (roseburg, Oregon) there was a CL float pond created and we hosted several events at the site. It was a 180 degree arc of water and we flew everything from large CL scale models to stunt models with floats. We even flew 1/2a models with floats and then my 80" Piper cub had floats on it. at one point we had 14 planes with floats on it at the site.

It is very possible but a river that is moving would be a problem. If you were on the lakeshore that had clearance along the shoreline that would be best. 1/2 over water, the 1/2 over land. Landing gets tricky because you need to land on the water unless you want to refinish your floats.

Fred
How heavy were your floats for stunt?
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 10:57:13 AM »
Of Course ya can . Here 1999 , original floats . ( couple of Tornado 10-6s on it there , rh & lh )


71 Torpedo 40 , unmuffled , a 11 x 5 , 63 ft. of .016 solids . Cept Ive Tarted it up , & as a OS  H40S is the same Wt  muffled it s in just now .

4055 abc K&B in it below , Sould keep that - For Musswellbrook . Its held ' in the sticks ' & those Dyna Jet Blokes turn up , too .

« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 12:17:14 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 11:12:13 AM »
In Fact , in dream air , you wont find a more deadly accurate Aeroplane . ( Id just look at you as if you rode a CB 750 rather than laughing in your face , if you thought not ) .
Wind starts at 7 knots to introduce a lateral weave , due to the Fwd. Side Area . Floats There are more bouyant than the Original ( Sat at a scale loaded ' Sit '  Rear Strut Was Waterlevel , noses out )
Fine for Calm Water - But The Sharks Bite in a chop , and tryn pull them under - so a tip takes a time to rise . But as its a chop Someone Needs to Grab it fairly Smartly .

A Tip . If Its a Tidal River , your DOOMEd , even though saltwaters more bouyant . I landed it inverted with the FSRS in it at Whitianga years back . Open Cockpit . New Pushrods have got rid of the ruist . C R C the Lines .
Fresh Water would provide lower maintanace . Lacquer the Control System .

Same Wt. now as when built . Only had it in the Air twice ,. Since rebuild , I think. Not in ahurry  Concieved  70's . Built 1999 , Flown Nowra 2000 . Briefly . Repeatedly in N.Z.
 With the 71 Torp. Thats a 4055 in the pictures , here .
If its NOT as Good as it was . The Narrower Floats will be fitted . Flew of the Orewa Estuary With Them , Ride on a Canoe to the Mud Flats & a launch . Two Flights . Had to swim back ! .

Is Airworthy at the moment . But wannabe on the ball . Had a runnawayon the Torp at Dusk - Does about 90 mph . in the dark . and YOUR inverted ( as it were ) OPENING the Needle From 1 7/8 turns To One Turn, not TWO !
tthat good Enya needles GONE too , Sat Flush , Hollow End , Cut a Notch & used a srew driver . Needed Opening . Suppose I mustve Turned it IN 1 7/8 then opened it 2 Halves ( 2/2 ) when someone gabled . NO Distractions .
Please .
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 12:15:23 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 11:16:30 AM »


Found this yesterday ( last night )



The Purple and White plane is a Sig Magnum C/L converted to ROW (rise off water).It is a joint effort by Nils Norling

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 11:23:28 AM »
Cox put out their small Piper Cub with floats and skis. We demo'd it at the Nats one year.  ;D
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 11:23:54 AM »


To cut a long story shorter , 71 Top 40 & warp , Bit of Inverted , first gfo , cut on turn to upright .
Second Go , Caught Fire up in the Ex Ducts Engine Bay . Shirt of & Wrap while a 11 Yr Old Rhodesion Spints 100 Meters for WATER .
Was Encouraged when He Slowed near back , seeing it out . By Then . I needed it For My Hands . But 5 weeks work Ya dont let go easy .
SO , Later . The G 51 Back In one friday evening , after a few weeks on a backward version of a japanese version Of Bob gieskes Version Of George Aldriches  :P Nobler . (Not KNOBLA thats Austrwlyen )

Silent Muffler . Balanced Well . Full schedule , ( we have ) Fuel over and the winds eased  ( and Swung 160 Degrees ! Unbeknowst ) a Repeat Horizontal Eight , at altitude , to seaward !  :o
A GUST Come Through ( Thru ) as it hits the intertsection going upward ( after one cycle ) and Kicks it IN a way . Dumb with shock , ' we ' stand . dazed and bewildered , about the time Ive figured where to run,
Opposite to normal , just about . or a few things are , at least . in two seonds ( or less ) its Flown Itself OUT Tight . ( was kicked over 30 degrees & 10 Ft ' IN ' slack .  %^@

The Inner Wing is 1 3/4 longer . With Good Reason .
The Swine Flys CLOCKWISE . With good reason . ( If youd like to stand on a 8 ft square over 4 50 Gal  Drums , you MIGHT NOT want to Walk Back . Even On occasion ! )

Weighs 71 Oz . Or Did . I havnt Finished Sanding YET . Macchi weighs 57 .


 




Got a Dual Engined Flying Boat drawn up  , Lines not Unlike Howard Hughes 8 engined one xed with a widgeon or Goose ( They used to operate in the neigbourhood & pretend to be Santa at Christmass )

At a rat infested past its use by decaying chateau , inhabited by vermin .



But it looks a bit like the coast at the Tidal Level . :-\

The Bones of it . 16 % Airfoil Sesqui plane . Rather Low Aspect Ratio on the LOWER WINGS .
Flys like its on Rails , for some reason . Wafling along slow you  feel the better adhesion / secure lift ,
of The FLOATS . & Longitudinal Directional Stability  akin to a keel . @ say 5 Deg. Nose Up ,
gentle wing rock laterally as they search for lift . The Floats are providing say 50 % ?? at low speed .



Thisisit At Themoment .  Supermarine S6B  :( stripped back in prep for refinishing . Had It Airborne a few months back . G-51 ST 12 x 5 Top Flight .
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 12:02:04 PM by Matt Spencer »

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 11:57:53 AM »
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2016, 12:27:44 PM »
We can do this LL~  I wanted to slap some pontoons on a beat up Testors Ringmaster an try it. Just don't know where to get some cheap light pontoons.

One BIG one ( little R/C ) and a leg & wee wun out the way Ea Side , on a ringpiece , Id Think . ( That Didnt come out to well ,  :-X)

 the bow wave woldnt go INTO the prop , then . Which is a consideration .A Steak knife & builders Foam , butchers brown paper , varnished .  

A chap here knocked up a OS 20 max ( the 1970 ones ) R C ' widgeon ' in two hours , just FOAM , 5 - min epoxy , scrap ply . 2 minute wonder for the annual lake  meet .



if the floats solid foam , you wont get any leaks .


Elongate the sucker ,  have the front of the wing fitting the top or the windows , L E at the top windsgreen break . 60 span , two OS 25s ( 8 x 6 three bladers ? )a wheel in the hull maybe for terra firma .

NO.   NOT like THAT .




Lycomings in the ' super ' Widgeons . https://sites.google.com/a/aotea.org/don-armitage/Home/great-barrier-island-history/air--sea-transport-tofrom-great-barrier-island/air-transport/amphibians-era-1955-89

might do a slightly tider / detailed one . STEP is same as mainwheel location on Trike Gear .
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 01:05:28 AM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2016, 12:54:30 PM »


To cut a long story shorter , 71 Top 40 & warp , Bit of Inverted , first gfo , cut on turn to upright .
Second Go , Caught Fire up in the Ex Ducts Engine Bay . Shirt of & Wrap while a 11 Yr Old Rhodesion Spints 100 Meters for WATER .
Was Encouraged when He Slowed near back , seeing it out . By Then . I needed it For My Hands . But 5 weeks work Ya dont let go easy .
SO , Later . The G 51 Back In one friday evening , after a few weeks on a backward version of a japanese version Of Bob gieskes Version Of George Aldriches  :P Nobler . (Not KNOBLA thats Austrwlyen )

Silent Muffler . Balanced Well . Full schedule , ( we have ) Fuel over and the winds eased  ( and Swung 160 Degrees ! Unbeknowst ) a Repeat Horizontal Eight , at altitude , to seaward !  :o
A GUST Come Through ( Thru ) as it hits the intertsection going upward ( after one cycle ) and Kicks it IN a way . Dumb with shock , ' we ' stand . dazed and bewildered , about the time Ive figured where to run,
Opposite to normal , just about . or a few things are , at least . in two seonds ( or less ) its Flown Itself OUT Tight . ( was kicked over 30 degrees & 10 Ft ' IN ' slack .  %^@

The Inner Wing is 1 3/4 longer . With Good Reason .
The Swine Flys CLOCKWISE . With good reason . ( If youd like to stand on a 8 ft square over 4 50 Gal  Drums , you MIGHT NOT want to Walk Back . Even On occasion ! )

Weighs 71 Oz . Or Did . I havnt Finished Sanding YET . Macchi weighs 57 .


 




Got a Dual Engined Flying Boat drawn up  , Lines not Unlike Howard Hughes 8 engined one xed with a widgeon or Goose ( They used to operate in the neigbourhood & pretend to be Santa at Christmass )

At a rat infested past its use by decaying chateau , inhabited by vermin .



But it looks a bit like the coast at the Tidal Level . :-\

The Bones of it . 16 % Airfoil Sesqui plane . Rather Low Aspect Ratio on the LOWER WINGS .
Flys like its on Rails , for some reason . Wafling along slow you  feel the better adhesion / secure lift ,
of The FLOATS . & Longitudinal Directional Stability  akin to a keel . @ say 5 Deg. Nose Up ,
gentle wing rock laterally as they search for lift . The Floats are providing say 50 % ?? at low speed .



Thisisit At Themoment .  Supermarine S6B  :( stripped back in prep for refinishing . Had It Airborne a few months back . G-51 ST 12 x 5 Top Flight .

That a pretty cool looking airplane! I like the pontoons.
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2016, 12:56:13 PM »

I saw this and wile back an was surprised it's about the only video out there on this.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2016, 01:00:37 PM »
I just started building this.

Charles

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2016, 02:25:56 PM »


Found this yesterday ( last night )



The Purple and White plane is a Sig Magnum C/L converted to ROW (rise off water).It is a joint effort by Nils Norling

Nils and I still email on occasion. As I recall, he said that Magnum was an OPP and was already too heavy to be a good PA plane, so when he found out about the ROW event, he put the floats on it. What didn't help was the total weight was really high, like 6 lbs or something like that, plus the Vertical CG was terribly low, so it insisted on flying with the outboard tip high. As I recall, he had throttle control and an early type Fox Eagle .60 in it, and flew it at reduced throttle. He won the event by being a good flier, and managed both a good takeoff and landing on the water, with some level laps between.

I was at that Roseburg NW Regionals, but mostly just remember seeing PW flying (and winning) Expert PA with his second B-17 Stunter, and that it was a rainy weekend. I also met Wayne Trivin  and Rad Racer that weekend.  y1 Steve
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2016, 06:01:34 PM »
I just started building this.

Charles


Are you going to fly if off water?
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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2016, 06:55:37 PM »
We can do this LL~  I wanted to slap some pontoons on a beat up Testors Ringmaster an try it. Just don't know where to get some cheap light pontoons.

A local RC club here has float plane events.  If you have a club nearby you might ask if any of them do any such events and you might get some pointers and advice from them.

Offline Greg McCoy

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2016, 09:36:54 PM »
Put wings on this.

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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2016, 10:01:08 PM »
Maybe these bad boys! An extra 5.5oz  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161713085471

These are light, but the plane they are designed for is 47 inch wingspan.  I am positive a ringmaster size plane can carry them, they might just look big.
 This is definitely one to ponder.
All my float flying is from rc. Including rc helicopters! Those are fun in the water

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2016, 10:24:54 PM »
A Control Line Plane is FAIRLY LIGHT . The Displacement of the Floats required Isnt a Lot . say 200 / 250 %  Toatal Volume ( Submerged . ) 300 max , to keep the Drag / weight down . With say 1 or 1 1/2 prop clearance sitting
Horizontal . For Aerobating Ive kept the floats ' in ' to the plane , so the offset isnt excessive . Ive Set the floats ' neutral ' = Nose to half ar . . Hight at rear . Sight along em , fore & Aft to guestimate the ' Zero Lift ' , and set
to Zero Incidance with the wing . If say 2 - 3 deg. Nose Up & Down they look equal ' windage ' for lift . , is my theory . Maybe Toe in rather than Toe Out . You Need STIFF 5/32 Wire . 1/8 on the Macchi 72 isnt really good enough .

This ISNT my Drawing : but ive got this Bernard HV 220 Drawn Up , maybe ST 46 Size , scale based elongated . The WING is a Dead Ringer for the BERINGER Wing , Taper Wise . ( Maybe they copied it  >:D )





for thopse of French Ancestry .  ;D Give me a yell if you cant live without building one . TheDURAL Landing Gear Legs'd be easy . F Glass Floats and youd save time long term . Building THREE Fuselages is a bit tedious ! .



Cylinder Head would hide , side on , between the inverted cylinder banks . Was ( pleasantly ) surprised there were no ' assymetric '  issues with the S6B or Macchi 72 , bar you can feel the ' lower wings '
above or below going way slow , lifting . At the old 5 seconds odd a lap , the Macchi particularly is ; in the groove ' . Dunno Why but Im Not Complaining . But the floats lines are V Clean . No Great Drag , there .


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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2016, 10:40:11 PM »
Done preliminary Drgs for a ' 65 ' for two .25s . C F Yacht Battens , 3/8 x 1/2 would be simple ridgid booms. a bit weighty - 1/8 wall . But V Stiff , Would Need Jig Assembly I would think .



One of the Best Looking is the 67 , Straight Wing Again . But upright Engine . WOULD the thing work / one way to find out .  :(



Only Needing an Extension Shaft Ballrace set ups stopped me Starting Building THIS , its DRAWN . But its a HYDROFOIL , 45 deg. camber on hidden wheels would be ' intresting . Could tend to go on its roof ,
so might need a dodge , there .



longish nose , would the moment give torque twist trouble . Could always chop the longness away if it did . :(

Dubbed ' The Flying Submarine ' .


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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2016, 10:46:02 PM »
Ive Absconded with THESE from Europe. Its NOT me .





There FOAMY Electro MC 72s for R.C. Probly the quickest way to get going , If You DO have WATER . Chuck a Bellcrank in rather than that expensive short circuitry .

One Would Think REPLACEMENT FLOATS for the Fun Fly MC72 would be available , light , and ( maybe  :P cheap ??



 :o :o :o :o A Thousand Bucks should start to cover it .  :P

HERES A CHEAP STYRO MC67 Think theres a MC 72 too .

S6B Styro ,

hrumph / L Wt PB26 Twin Flying Boat . Keeping it Simple & to esesential Ellements.  H^^
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 01:21:44 AM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 05:56:55 AM »
Are you going to fly if off water?

Liner,

To fly the model off water I would have to have retracts, or at least for the front wheels. Retracts add weight. There will be enough weight already with the floats and wheels.

I'm designing the wing with a symmetrical airfoil so I can get some mild stunts out of the model. I have to keep the weight down as best as possible, so, I probably won't be flying it off of water.

For those interested, here's my progress.

Charles

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 07:29:32 AM »
Itll be intresting to see how it goes .

Think its easiest to carve say a pine float , 3/32 undersize , and mould the skins . Or just use plastic , particularly if you have a vacuforer .
If theres a 5 mm lip on the upper edge of the bottoms , glued inside the uppers sides , theyed be quite ridgid and weigh naff all .
a couple of formers to pick up Alumn. legs ?? ( that connection needs to be secure )

Fibreglass over a plug maybe better . If your really cunning Alloy U brackets for the wheels , could be screwed on , thus removable .
A tube 7 C clip in a groove in the wire , at front .

On Grass the suckers usually slide . Less So clockwise, its trying to pull outward . I think Counter Clock ( Normal ) the in turn ( tourque )
would have it sliding no worries . Mine are normally flown ion grass . Grass or Water , if you drop it from 1 inch up , its sliding fwd already.

Look at the old 15 Deg Wheel bit , for ' bouyancy ' as the force angle / CG on water , if you do try it , you dont want it driving the noses under .

Floats built as an assembly , jigged when fitting the legs , if That bolted on the fuse as a assembly , would be self aligning .
To soft in the legs and youve good big ' surfboards ' under there twisting away trying to steer the plane .

Dimensions akin to Old Time Stunt should work . Be intresting with the ; big ; floats theres a fair bit of LIFT in them , so conventional ' sums '
arnt allowing for that ' lifting area ' as wings , in the Oz / Sq Ft bit . If you dont go filling it up with concrette , it should work good .

You COULD just fit one wheel Ea Side , up inside the floats . Under the leading edge .
If they were hard team race disc wheels , a moulded cover up in it , a few brass tubes & a Press In axle would have them fittable or removable ,

Theyd only need to stick out 1/4 in . Ive Flown over smooth concrette , Spruce Runners on the keels , So you dont REALLY need wheels .

 H^^



Dunno What Payload that thing carries , but its got a bit of freeboard . Has to have reseve capacity for storms & suchlike .

Your Probly better building a DC3 on floats .  8) :## VD~



( Just Kidding about the DC3 !  ;D LL~ S?P)

Pye korrie . ''



The Early snow commanders had short noses and great round engines , The nose is long as the Turbo Prop weighs nothing , so watch the weight forward there ,
A exhaust elbow with the muffler aft of the L E might be usefull . It doesnt look like a Fox or OS Max 35 , theyre 6 ounces .
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 07:58:22 AM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2016, 08:43:17 AM »
yep,. the Snow S-2,(commander) became the Rockwell Thrush and Ayre Thrush
Leland Snow sold the rights and in doing so signed a no compete for a period of time, either 7 or 10 years, not toally sure. Then he produced the Air Tractor.
Now he has expanded the original AT301, 300 gallon, radial powered, and now it has become th AT-802 which also becomes the Fire Boss on floats. I am not sure that the yellow AT-802 isnt just the prototype of the Fire Boss.
interesting note, he also produced a version he marketed to smaller countries for civil defense use armed with missiles and such

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2016, 08:54:39 AM »
Just because,,
here is a link to the company I used to work for, I designed the conversion and helped get the conversion approved and the PMA in place. which originally was for a Walter M601 Turboprop installation. The Walter was mounted on the Let 410 commuter aircraft and is Czechoslovakian in origin.
Later they went to PT-6 for various reasons.

anyway, it is prettier than the FActory PT-6 installation IMHO

http://cascadeaircraftconversions.com/

the Parent compnay here
http://www.airtractor.com/

and the most interesting aspect,, the close air support version here
http://www.802u.com/
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2016, 07:34:12 AM »
Any scientific location as to where you mount the floats besides on the bottom of the plane? Any relationship to the CG of the airplane?
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2016, 08:33:29 AM »
Just because,,
here is a link to the company I used to work for, I designed the conversion and helped get the conversion approved and the PMA in place. which originally was for a Walter M601 Turboprop installation. The Walter was mounted on the Let 410 commuter aircraft and is Czechoslovakian in origin.
Later they went to PT-6 for various reasons.

anyway, it is prettier than the FActory PT-6 installation IMHO

http://cascadeaircraftconversions.com/

the Parent compnay here
http://www.airtractor.com/

and the most interesting aspect,, the close air support version here
http://www.802u.com/

Thanks for the links Mark. My favorite aircraft for sure.

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2016, 04:25:26 PM »
HA! What do you think of the AquaRing? Maybe the floats are a little too far forward like Matt suggested. I have no Idea but its looking pretty cool.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2016, 04:31:59 PM »
Any scientific location as to where you mount the floats besides on the bottom of the plane? Any relationship to the CG of the airplane?

AFAIK -- and I've never tried it on anything but rubber-power -- the step should be a bit behind the CG.  For a 40-sized plane the dimension I remember is 1/4 or 1/2 inch.  Dunno why, although it probably has to do with stability when it's up on the step.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2016, 04:46:20 PM »
AFAIK -- and I've never tried it on anything but rubber-power -- the step should be a bit behind the CG.  For a 40-sized plane the dimension I remember is 1/4 or 1/2 inch.  Dunno why, although it probably has to do with stability when it's up on the step.
pretty much what Tim said,
the step relates to the CG, normally the top of the float is parallel to the line of flight ( because most floats are designed so they can be rigged that way
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2016, 05:05:10 PM »
AFAIK -- and I've never tried it on anything but rubber-power -- the step should be a bit behind the CG.  For a 40-sized plane the dimension I remember is 1/4 or 1/2 inch.  Dunno why, although it probably has to do with stability when it's up on the step.
The pontoon step is pretty close to the spare in the wing,  sounds like a winner to me.  You sure have a wide range of  knowledge Tim!
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2016, 05:11:07 PM »
You sure have a wide range of  knowledge Tim!

Like Fibber McGee's closet.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
AFAIK -- and I've never tried it on anything but rubber-power -- the step should be a bit behind the CG.  For a 40-sized plane the dimension I remember is 1/4 or 1/2 inch.  Dunno why, although it probably has to do with stability when it's up on the step.
By the way what is "AFAIK"?
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2016, 06:49:21 PM »
Ready to give the AquaMaster a try! Hopefully I'll give it a try on Saturday. It clocked in at 37oz.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2016, 06:51:48 PM »
Ready to give the AquaMaster a try! Hopefully I'll give it a try on Saturday. It clocked in at 37oz.

Omg I'm jealous! That's awesome!

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2016, 07:05:56 PM »
Omg I'm jealous! That's awesome!

 ;D I'm checking this off the bucket list one way or another #^
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2016, 07:36:45 PM »

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2016, 07:56:57 PM »
Thanks Rootbeard , I couldnt find that one again on Utube , with 800 Windy Videos . :o

Quote
Ready to give the AquaMaster a try! Hopefully I'll give it a try on Saturday. It clocked in at 37oz.

Sight Behind and left , for three strides aft ! . If Static Release . Dropping From a inch or two up ( aimed striaght )
seems to be instantly on the step & running true , so doesnt involve footwork .

The Kiwi Widgeons came over with a un ' bulliten ' Step posn . Was Moved Aft 9 in. or suchlike . On Occasion theyed
try the pirruette waltze on landing . Years Later someone realised the problem & the hulls were updated .

The STEP Posn. is a bit like the ' Rotation ' point . To Far Aft & the nose is glued down , but to short all the keels Fwd of the C.G.

Looking at it ' on the step ' , thwe rear of the keels in , only . That is about at the C.G.

Watch It with a Static Release , The Nose May Try'n Turn In under the acceleration . So Like a erant 2 Wheel Job - you may need to go aft
for line tension .Await the Flight Report . Looking GOOD .

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2016, 07:47:39 AM »
I bet a water crash is epic looking!
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2016, 10:06:13 AM »


Looking at it ' on the step ' , thwe rear of the keels in , only . That is about at the C.G.

Watch It with a Static Release , The Nose May Try'n Turn In under the acceleration . So Like a erant 2 Wheel Job - you may need to go aft
for line tension .Await the Flight Report . Looking GOOD .

So your saying the floats may be a little far forward, and on takeoff it might turn in at me?
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2016, 04:35:26 PM »
Kinda like a speed plane wants to turn in on you, you have to back up quick and keep tension on the lines.  With the prop spinning the direction it does and the fact that the pontoons will be stuck to the water, the plane will want to turn it's nose to you. I don't know the actual terms to use,  I just know how it feels. I also know how silly I feel when I get two spin outs in a row in a speed contest. ....  ~^

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2016, 04:44:18 PM »
Kinda like a speed plane wants to turn in on you, you have to back up quick and keep tension on the lines.  With the prop spinning the direction it does and the fact that the pontoons will be stuck to the water, the plane will want to turn it's nose to you. I don't know the actual terms to use,  I just know how it feels. I also know how silly I feel when I get two spin outs in a row in a speed contest. ....  ~^
Makes sense! Is there any way to stop that if it happens?  Might be a good youtube video you guys see on Sunday ;D
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2016, 04:56:01 PM »
Keep in mind,  I've flown plenty of float rc planes and helis, but no cl.... so if someone intelligent chimes in (like Tim or mark) that would be the way to go

I would fix a small slightly adjustable rudder on the right pontoon and add some pontoon offset rudder. Then,  get it going,  and off the water as soon as it is safe to do so.
So lots of horse power!  Lol

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2016, 12:30:17 AM »
It l;ooks pretty much spot on , with the huge floats there theres likely No Problem .

IF accelerating from ' sunk ' the prop tourque would further sink the Inner . A Wee Shove , or Dropping It, onto the water ( motor Running )
saves its bewiderment and myrid of forces ( Lines , Float Drag , tourque , acceleration reaction etc )

But Still , I Made Mine Counter Clock , so if flown from a RAFT , I wouldnt walk of the back of it , on take off .

Id Done a Morley T Bolt with floats , that sat into the wavelets and wind , bogged down ( underpowered )
I walked a fair way back up the beach gently keeping the tension on the lines . HENCE the current ' Lines on the Other Wing ' set up .
The Tourque can actually stuff up flying on grass , as they want to turn out , thus the keel scrubs & sticks .Unless Given a SHOVE .

I Think your only look out will be keeping the lines OUT OF THE WATER . maybe. Speed Flyers Handle way up , Maybe .
Your FLOATS are TWICE the Bouyanct of mine , so youll be out of the ' edge of the margins ' , where on landing
the lines can weight the inner float of the MC72 under  & put a tip in the water . Then the WET lines are heavier ( than dry )
so it dosnt want to get back on an even keel . WHICK IS WHY IT NOW HAS BIGGER FLOATS ( 40 % more bouyancey )

But as it was ACE  for F2B , if its not gonna go like it  did atmosphereically (  S?P) the skinny floats will be remade & fitted .

SO ,

A , Keep The LINES DRY .

B. Give it a Shove , or drop it from 1 or 2 in above water - at least till you see ' how she goes '.

LANDING should show it all above board , and shipshape .What Happens is the WETTED AREA of the FLOATS has A LOT of ' STICTION '
untill its ' On The Step ' . So a drop or shove gets it out of the wallow , straight off .


Lookie Here , Twin Fans ( Hulls big enough for one HUGE One ) Symetrical Airfoil , Stab Trims , so is almost ' full Moving '.
The Say no troubles with snout drinking on it . One or two hit a log, holed and SUNK . :(


If youve seen the massive Russian Albatross Jet flying Boat , it sits way low - Massive power gets it moving like a ship .
at some speed , the thing surges up like a cork - acceleartes like blazes , with the reduce of drag ( Hydrodynamic ) ,
rotaes and goes up like a 747 , Dripping Gallons .

The 72 Sheds Water effusively , clearing the tide . touch & Go's - the ' Stiction ' gets it cutting the water , and ' in a groove 'in it .
Needs a distinct ' pull up ' to get the turn ( up ) to lift out . ON THE NARROW FLOATS . it doing a fair clip on the water ,
the rotation slows it and it holds nose up a way , gently dropping the nose ( After a Pause * ) it accelerates to flying hight ( 5-6 ft )

Gets You Wishing You Had a THROTTLE .

* the S6 full size , Full Up . ( stick in the stomach ) was held . AND AFTER TAKEOFF .If Realeased or eased it went in , Drowning one of em .
But THAT is on a high loading marginal bouyancey sucker . Worth Noting , but largly irrelevant , as your way out of those ' margins .

I should think youd have no bother . But The T Bolt did a few wingovers into the tide , and flown on Half , tide upwind Wingovered into terra firma
Lines Slack .

So to make a long story SHORT . DONT TAKE OFF INTO THE WIND ! ;D

Take  your camera & maybe a Video , if you have .

( Dropping the plane from under six inches,  Un Going , will show you its bouyancey & Sit . Again with lines & a Bod @ the Handle , Any Differance .
MAYBE Nail On extra tip weight . What We NEED is a Submerged by say 6 in. wharf / walkway . The we can do the ' walk on water ' trip . S?P)

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2016, 08:17:35 PM »
Well fellas I did it! Went pretty good to, the floats do make it fly a bit sluggish though. Maybe she needs a 40 instead of a 35. I got loops out of it an 8s some sloppy square loops. It was fun though!
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2016, 08:33:43 PM »
Another view of the same video.  Ohhh yeah I tried a touch and go wile I was at it,  probably not a smart idea but it kept going.  Sure did slow down a lot though.

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2016, 11:16:45 AM »
Watching you have fun, it didn't look sluggish to this old man.   What length line? H^^
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2016, 11:36:36 AM »
Just so you know Chris, your my new hero!

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2016, 01:20:49 PM »
Watching you have fun, it didn't look sluggish to this old man.   What length line? H^^
58ft lines. Think the floats make a big air brake.

Just so you know Chris, your my new hero!
That was an epic time  #^
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »
Oooooooooooh My Gosh!

The "KING" of, "Flying "off" Water."

Great job with the camera. Absolutely inspiring.

Outstanding!

You are my hero also.

King Liner!!

Charles

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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2016, 06:53:05 PM »
Oooooooooooh My Gosh!

The "KING" of, "Flying "off" Water."

Great job with the camera. Absolutely inspiring.

Outstanding!

You are my hero also.

King Liner!!

Charles


LL~ Thank you but I'm no King I just gave something different a try! Ha Ha I still crash with the best of them.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2016, 07:26:53 PM »
Second flight...

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2016, 07:30:31 PM »
Let my dad give it a try, I just forgot to tell him to move back after take off to the big safe rock. I clipped this tree myself on the first try.

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2016, 07:49:02 PM »
I gave the AquaMaster one final flight, it was a disaster from the take off. Some reason it bounced out an in on take off, lines went slack an I never got a chance to move away from the tree that kept trying to jump in front of the airplane. I picked up a pretty big branch that didn't let go of the airplane, it hitched a ride an killed the aerodynamic Ringmaster. All in all I had a blast!

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2016, 08:08:09 PM »
"King" Liner,

You need a bigger pond.

I just thought of something. The water is moving at a good speed, so it must be cold as hell.
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2016, 08:13:32 PM »
"King" Liner,

You need a bigger pond.

I just thought of something. The water is moving at a good speed, so it must be cold as hell.

It was humid an sooooooooo hot that day the water felt good. It's not usually too cold,  you can swim in it.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2016, 08:15:16 PM »
I don't really know what I would of done if a kayaker came by at that moment!  An some how some way I'm sure I broke some law doing that.
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2016, 10:34:17 PM »
School of Hard knocks !

Just as well you missed the Tidal Waves .  VD~ LL~

good Camera work . Looked to fly good . New Class for C/L Stunt . ! Can repair it for the next rainy Ringmaster Day , they fly good on wet grass & snow .

Thanks for posting the Videos .

The Extra Drag in nose up or down pitch with the floats , and acceleration withem ' neutral ' to the flightpath is evident ( Three Fuses )
sortta indicates how much that drag is the Fuse rather than the wing , on conventional ( air ) ships . Being a profile with the floats .

Sort of ' edgeing ' or flying the turn stops it . Or you can look at them as another ' trim ' consideration .
 Certainly didnt look to curtail its aerobatic ability .

 H^^

Any Alligators out there .   :) ;D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 10:59:35 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2016, 09:21:29 AM »
Looks like it will fly again.   May have to go to shorter lines.  I hope you did check every thing before that last flight.  Any way that water has to be cooler than a pave lot this time of year.  As Matt says, wet grass or snow will work.  We did that with the RC floats planes when I played with RC. H^^
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2016, 10:10:38 AM »
Looks like it will fly again.   May have to go to shorter lines.  I hope you did check every thing before that last flight.  Any way that water has to be cooler than a pave lot this time of year.  As Matt says, wet grass or snow will work.  We did that with the RC floats planes when I played with RC. H^^
That Ringmaster took some abuse. Hitting trees an water seemed to absorb most of it, the wing never broke out of the fuselage. I did use some CA on it after the first crash. Mostly just the one float started falling apart, and some monokote holes. Think I might try my OS Max-H 40S  in it next  ;D
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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2016, 11:04:15 PM »
Though the ' defoliage ' was pretty good . But Vertically into rock , 3 in. of water isnt going to slow it down , a lot .

My Blankety 40S in the 72 is a bit wallowey on a 11x6 , Fitted a 11x5 thinned . The Master Black 11x5 worked pretty good .
Thinking the tide / current just caught it and pushed er in , on THAT take off . Heavy Rain and Flooded Fields give a good ' pond ' .  ;) H^^

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Re: Flying on Water
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2016, 11:12:57 PM »
If youve got a FP or LA it might be kinder to the Venerable 40S to thermal shock something else , in the dunkings .  :-\


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