Flying for 64 hours and 33 minutes

[Paul Taylor]

I read the article in MA on a group in Eugene Oregon setting the record for the longest CL flight. Oba St. Clair was part of the 12 man crew. What an event that must have been. One guy said the engine just ran until the engine finally wore out.
2,705 miles
30 gallons of fuel
36.5 MPH.

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?

[Dave Rigotti]

Nope

2. Objective.
To fly a Control Line model airplane powered by internal combustion
reciprocating engine(s) so that it remains in the air for the greatest period of time.
CDs should take note of this objective and be prepared with sufficient flight
circles and judges for the prolonged periods involved

3. Engines.
Engine(s) shall be of the reciprocating internal combustion type with total piston
displacement from .0900 to .3661 cubic inches. Sixty percent of the actual piston
displacement of four-stroke cycle engines shall be taken for compliance with this
regulation. Jet assist, catapult, or other launching device not permitted.

4. Fuel Capacity.
The maximum fuel capacity permitted is 30 cubic centimeters. This capacity is to
be checked through the use of an accurate system by visual examination of the
volume of fuel put into the tank(s) and fuel lines. All lubrication shall be
contained in the fuel, and may not be recirculated. Capacity checks shall be made
before the first attempts, and shall be verified after a winner or record is
established.

[Brett Buck]

Nope

2. Objective.
To fly a Control Line model airplane powered by internal combustion
reciprocating engine(s) so that it remains in the air for the greatest period of time.
CDs should take note of this objective and be prepared with sufficient flight
circles and judges for the prolonged periods involved

3. Engines.
Engine(s) shall be of the reciprocating internal combustion type with total piston
displacement from .0900 to .3661 cubic inches. Sixty percent of the actual piston
displacement of four-stroke cycle engines shall be taken for compliance with this
regulation. Jet assist, catapult, or other launching device not permitted.

4. Fuel Capacity.
The maximum fuel capacity permitted is 30 cubic centimeters. This capacity is to
be checked through the use of an accurate system by visual examination of the
volume of fuel put into the tank(s) and fuel lines. All lubrication shall be
contained in the fuel, and may not be recirculated. Capacity checks shall be made
before the first attempts, and shall be verified after a winner or record is
established.

   Because if you DIDN'T have these restrictions, holding a contest or record trial become completely unfeasible. WAM also held both "Economy" and "Endurance" and it very quickly got out of hand and they had to put in similar restrictions. On the other hand, someone did discover that you could build an airplane using a Holland Hornet that would still lift almost a gallon of fuel. Do the math on that one....

         Brett

[John Rist]

30 CC is around 1 oz.  This post started out saying that 30 gallons of fuel was used.  I have a slight relocation of Testers fuel and a fox 35 flying for a long time by using 60 ' Of fuel tubing and a presser pump tank to refuel the airplane.  As I rember it the flight ended when to fuel line came undone and refueling stopped.  Seems I recall a Testers 39 add saying that the Fox was still good to go.  I don't remember the time but it was days. 

Is there a modern version for a 1 oz limit?        A link to the above mentioned article would be great.

[Paul Taylor]

Reading the article it seems like there was not rules. A fuel tank was mounted on the pilot and that was swapped over as the pilot’s rotation.

[Dave_Trible]

There was two different objects.   The LONG flight was basically a Guinous (sp) world record thing.  The other is/was an official AMA rule book event that could be flown by anyone at a local contest.  This might be compared to Maynard Hill's world record RC trans Atlantic flight vs. some local endurance contest with a fuel limit requirement.

Dave

[Dan McEntee]

I read the article in MA on a group in Eugene Oregon setting the record for the longest CL flight. Oba St. Clair was part of the 12 man crew. What an event that must have been. One guy said the engine just ran until the engine finally wore out.
2,705 miles
30 gallons of fuel
36.5 MPH.

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?

   I think if you search the forum that has been discussed a cou0le of times, and pretty recently. I think Floyd Carter was a member of that club and helped out with the flight. We used to have a duration/economy event as part of a fun event that was started by the local SAM organization, and they used more or less the rules Dave posted with the 30cc limit. That was along time ago and I don't know if I have a copy of the flyer any more.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Mike Hazel]

Floyd is a member of that club, but he came along decades after that flight.  My dad was one of the pilots of the record setting event.

[Paul Smith]

I originated the rules change that reduced Endurance from a four-pound model with all the fuel you could carry to four ounces of fuel.
Very soon, guys figured out how to fly all day with a diesel on four ounces.
It was then reduced to one ounce. 

[Paul Smith]

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?
[/quote]

I doubt that you can find insulated lines that will carry the amps to fly a modern plane at all.
Maybe a little toy on 10' lines, but that's about all.
Are the cables coming off a Lipo really necessary?  If so, good luck.

[Brett Buck]

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?

    I  note that there have already been functional roundy-round airplanes that worked as described, using dry batteries, 50 or more years ago. They weren't impressive as far as performance, but would fly level as long as you keep putting in new batteries.

I doubt that you can find insulated lines that will carry the amps to fly a modern plane at all.
Maybe a little toy on 10' lines, but that's about all.
Are the cables coming off a Lipo really necessary?  If so, good luck.

     Of course, for power through the lines, you would jack up the voltage to reduce the current, so you could use smaller lines. If all you were going to do was fly round-and-round, you might need 100 watts or so, for a 6S pack it would need maybe 4.5 - 5 amps. Put 5  of them in series, you cut it to an amp or so, you can run that through 24 or so gauge wires if you have high-temp insulation. You only need one wire to be insulated, so for this limited purpose, seems workable in that respect. Too much drag/weight, run the voltage even higher.

      Electric cars run at 400ish volts, for similar reasons.

      Brett

[Arlan McKee]

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?


I doubt that you can find insulated lines that will carry the amps to fly a modern plane at all.
Maybe a little toy on 10' lines, but that's about all.
Are the cables coming off a Lipo really necessary?  If so, good luck.

Why use LiPos?
My next question is how much do you want to bet?
If someone wanted to go for a world record electric controline duration flight not concerning any AMA rules and all one has to do is fly in a circle  the duration  would be as long as a person could stay awake and until mechanical failure if it was a team effort.

[John Rist]

I wonder if an electric plane could be fed power via the control lines and run for days?


I doubt that you can find insulated lines that will carry the amps to fly a modern plane at all.
Maybe a little toy on 10' lines, but that's about all.
Are the cables coming off a Lipo really necessary?  If so, good luck.

It could be done by using 115 v AC.  I am seeing gas powered generators that weigh around 30 to 40 pounds.  Also battery powered units that weigh less.  Run the 115 v ac down insulated lines and convert it to DC in the airplane.  Possibly have backup battery in airplane in case the generator runs out of gas.  Anyway you get the ideal.  A 40 lb back pack would be load for houres.  Any way it could be done but ---------   

[FLOYD CARTER]

I joined the Eugene Prop Spinners club as soon as we moved to Oregon, in 2002.  The endurance record was before I got there, but I heard all the details from some members still in the club.  The report in MA seemed to be all correct in details.

The model hung in our local hobby shop, Eugene Toy & Hobby, until recently, when it went to the AMA museum.  I don't know if the Torpedo 29 glo engine was actually worn out, or not.  It was never run after the record-setting flight.

[EddyR]

 I remember guys I flew with during the 1950’s taking 1/2A models and starting with one ounce and working up to 4 ounce tanks. They never ran out the fuel as everyone got tired befor it used all the fuell. I put a Cub .14 on a Ringmaster jr with four ounce tank and i fell down long before using all the fuel.1/2A turn to fast and wear out the pilots much fast than larger models.
Ed

[spare_parts]

Is anyone making a serious effort to set a record for AMA 332 described by Dave? I've been eyeballing it.

[Motorman]

Is anyone making a serious effort to set a record for AMA 332 described by Dave? I've been eyeballing it.

BTDT

Motorman

[Paul Smith]

 You only need one wire to be insulated, so for this limited purpose, seems workable in that respect. Too much drag/weight, run the voltage even higher. 

      Brett
[/quote]

I think a single insulated line would cause unequal drag that would render the bellcrank inoperative.

However, with the lines far enough apart you might get away with NO insulation.  Perhaps with an insulated spreader every 10 feet,

[johnt4051]

There have been a number of articles written about the Prop Spinners' record flight, including this one I wrote for Model Airplane News: http://flyinglines.org/MAN.endurance.article.pdf.  There also were some articles in newspapers and magazines at the time.

I joined the Prop Spinners in 1977, long after the flight. It has remained a matter of club pride and folklore -- along with the fact that CL pioneer Oba St. Clair was a member of the club (and a key participant in this flight).  Oba was involved in some of the technical aspects of the flight, including the installation of an RC-type servo controlled by the pilot with current through the flying wires, used to adjust the needle valve for day and night conditions.

One bit of trivia about the flight which I heard from an old-time Prop Spinner but was never able to verify is this: The flight did not end because the engine wore out; it ended because the pilot at the time turned the needle valve adjustment the wrong way, accidentally shutting it off.

For more information about the Prop Spinners, see the club's page on Flying Lines: http://flyinglines.org/propspinners.html