Author Topic: Flew my new planes today (Read 5458 times)

Jim Kraft · « **on:** February 18, 2011, 06:27:31 PM »

I got out today to fly. It's been a while, so I thought I would try out my new unflown planes. The flapped Magician flew very well with the McCoy 40, pretty much like the last three that I built. The surprise was the flapped Sterling S-2 Mustang, with a Fox 35. It flew really well, and the Fox ran without a burp. It is an older 70's model Fox, but it ran very steady from beginning to end. I was running it on uniflow with a 10-6 Revup prop. The plane flew well, but did have the outboard wing low upright, and high inverted, as expected, since it is a low wing. The real surprise was that it would not stall. I flew it through inside and outside squares, and triangles. I was banging the corners really hard, and not so much as a bobble. The wing being high inverted did not seem to affect line tension, but the plane was flying fairly fast. I am glad I built it with moveable flaps, even though it will cost me 10 points in Old Time. It is just a blast to fly a copy of a plane that I built and flew back in the 60's. I may try the boiling water towel trick on the wing, and see if I can get it to fly a little more level. It is covered with silk and dope, so maybe I can tweek it a little, or not.

Rusty · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2011, 06:50:51 PM »

blank

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2011, 07:21:07 PM »

The Magician was scratch built from Midwest plans. This is the fourth one I have built. All of mine have been built with optional flaps that are set up one to one. It is covered with silk from Dharma Trading Co. and Sig Dope, all brushed. They all seem to fly almost identical. It is just a very fun plane to build and fly, and is just a pretty honest plane with no bad habbits. I do build mine exactly like the plans with the offset wing and all. They have all weighed between 35 and 38 ounces, and I think the heavier ones fly just a tad better. Go figure.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2011, 07:26:14 PM »

The Mustang should tweak just fine with hot water.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2011, 07:31:48 PM »

Thanks Howard; I may also try going to heavier wheels to help offset the low wing thing along with a wing tweek.

Richard Fleming · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2011, 07:49:31 PM »

Jim, Out of all the Magicians you have built, this is my favorite. Nice colors and layout.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2011, 07:52:43 PM »

Thanks Richard. I like this one best also. It really looks nice in the air, and it is so easy to fly. Something that I need. LOL

Chris Edinger · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:07:23 AM »

Jim.

I really like the clean tank install on your profiles... but is hard for me to see how ya did it... did you solder a mounting tab on the tanks??? Planes really look nice..

thomas farmer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:28:45 AM »

Chris, I spend some time in the KCMO, about two times a year, would you be interested in flying some time. Tom Farmer

Pat Johnston · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:44:57 AM »

Jim,
For what it is worth, I have drawn plans for the Mustang and Magician. On the Mustang, I put a note which suggests installing an inch of dihedral to get both wingtips to line up level with the vertical CG.
For the Magician, I designed both the original Midwest version and an alternate with the wing halves the same length. This simply demanded the spar with the slots altered to acheive this. Of course, both spars are identical for the equal span wing version. I can cut either version in a short kit. I also included half ribs for those who like a sexier looking wing.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works

Jerry Leuty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:08:11 PM »

Jim, I am looking at the Dharma web site. Which silk are you using for your planes. I have several nice stunters that I want to build and I want to use the 'Classic' methods of silk and dope to finish them in. There is a Silk Habotai 5mm. I know I want the lightest possible. But they have many options. Most of the modelers here in Texas use Polyspan and auto finish colors. I don't. I have used plastic film and rattle can paint for the past 12 years or so now. But I want to build my T-bird using Brodak dope and colors.

Jerry

Chris Edinger · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:11:06 PM »

Tom...

Yes.. I am always interested in flying... we have a grass circle at the local RC field.. and if we want to spend about an hour on the road,, we can go to the Topeka Club and an asphalt circle.. Maybe we could coax Doc Holiday out tooo.. LOL..
Sure tom.. I will look your email up and send you my cell number..
Chris

john e. holliday · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:27:15 PM »

Just let me know.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:38:18 PM »

Jim, that Mustang looks great. I built one years ago and after teaching my wife to fly on a McCoy .19, I re-engined with a series 71R Torp .40, THAT was one wild ride!!!

RC Storick · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:46:48 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kraft on February 18, 2011, 06:27:31 PM

It is covered with silk and dope, so maybe I can tweek it a little, or not.

No hot water! Steam super heated steam and 2 people

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:47:57 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on February 18, 2011, 07:26:14 PM

The Mustang should tweak just fine with hot water.

Hmmmm?

Instead of twisting the wing (which would look ugly even if it did level the wings) I think he should really really really soak it, put each wing tip on a box and weigh down the fuselage with a few pounds of something. Let it dry and, voila! dihedral!

JUUUUUUUST KIDDING!!!!!! But I really do like Pat's suggestion of building the Mustang (and the Yak) with some dihedral to solve the vertical CG moment issue.

When we were kids my brother would build Mustangs and I would build Yaks, plug in Fox .35s and do inside loops until the line more or less locked up. Somehow, sometime I got over that. Gary got to build the Mustangs because he was older and bigger than me.

Ted

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:56:23 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 20, 2011, 04:46:48 PM

No hot water! Steam super heated steam and 2 people

Even easier, block the wing up with weights and magazine "shims" twisted about twice as far as you want it to end up and then take out the wrinkles in the covering with a hot air gun, just like with moneykote. Just don't leave the hot air gun in one place for more than a second or so as the paint will blister. Move it over the surface like you were spray painting.

I do think you'll find you can take the wrinkles out this way and doing so will tweak the wing.

Ted

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:50:34 PM »

Chris; On the Magician, I bend and slot angle brackets out of K&N brass, and solder them to the ends of the tank. I install brass threaded inserts in the fuse to mount the tank. On the Mustang I just soldered a piece of slotted flat brass to the back of the tank, and used the inserts in the fuse like on the Magician only top and bottom.
Jerry; Yes, the 5mm Habatoi silk is what I use. It is light, and has a very tight weave so fills with very little dope.
Randy; Thanks

I am alway hesitant to change anything from the plans for old time and classic planes, because I fly them in competition. All four of the Magicians I have built were done as close as I could get them to the Midwest plans. And they have all flown very well.
Ted; I like your idea of soaking the wing and supporting it at the tips with weight on the fuse. It might very well end up looking like a carrier plane with wings folded. LOL A little dihedral would have worked great. What I have done so far is to add heavier wheels, and warp the outboard flap a little. Not sure that is the thing to do, but maybe better than a wart or warping the wing. We shall see. Thanks to all.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2011, 10:04:14 PM »

Here is another pic of the Mustang showing the tank mount a little better. The part that looks like it is on top of the tank is just a reflection of the flat plate where it is mounted to the fuse.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2011, 12:23:17 AM »

AH Hah Jim!

Your Flight report is encouraging.
Thinking I will get to try mine Tuesday.

Currious
Did line tension stay about same up side down and up? in technoease thats inverted and right side up.

Have a Midwest P-40 thats fine doing like that, flies good and steady. Not noticeable in maneuvers.

David

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2011, 07:10:57 AM »

Yes David; I could not tell much difference in line tension between upright and inverted. It was flying fairly fast and that probably contributed to the good tension. I did fly it through the complete old time pattern, and I had no problems anywhere. It just looks a little weird with the wing up or down when flying level. I was running the old Fox with a 10-6 Revup prop, and it was running in a wet 2 stroke with just a little break to 4 in places. I may also be running a bit more tip weight than it needs. I did have 2-1/4" Dubro light foamy wheels on it, and now has heavier low bounce wheels. That helps quite a bit when hanging it from the leadouts. As long as it continues to fly OK, I won't mind if it hangs off a little, as I think they all did this in the old days, and is part of the mystique. Good luck with yours, and let us know how it goes.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2011, 12:53:10 PM »

My worry, well yours actually

is that in twisting a straight wing to correct--scratch--hide the vertical CG situations some weirdness may show up somewhere.

Hinging in one direction and not the other is one thought.

Me dun no!

David

Howard Rush · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2011, 01:19:24 PM »

Quote from: W.D. Roland on February 21, 2011, 12:53:10 PM

My worry, well yours actually
is that in twisting a straight wing to correct--scratch--hide the vertical CG situations some weirdness may show up somewhere.vid

You are correct. Sorry, I didn't notice (even though you said so, and even though I had one) that that is a low-wing airplane. If the wing is straight now, I wouldn't warp it to counteract the CG and fuselage-flow problem.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:54:20 PM »

Yeah; I thought about that too. I did warp the flap down a bit at the tip. Don't know if this might cause the same reaction as warping the wing though. Guess I will try it and see what happens. I did warp the wing just a tad to make sure that it at least isn't warped the wrong way. Looking at the wing from the back, I would say I may now have about a 1/16" wash-in in the outboard wing toward the tip. I am hoping the heavier wheels will do the most good, and then just let the chips fall where they may. I sure don't want to compromise so much that it won't fly right. I will try it the way I have it now, and it can always be warped back if it starts doing weird stuff. After all, I have seen quite a few of these fly, and all of them flew with the outboard down upright. Gee, it sure is getting hard to eyeball wings with trifocals. LOL

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:57:09 PM »

Jim. The wet towel in the microwave really works! I'm sure you could put a good bend in a 2 X 4 if you really wanted. Be sure to leave the wing with the hot towel and pile of books for at least 24 hours.

Floyd

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2011, 03:20:02 PM »

I bet that would work well also Floyd. I am still a little concerned about warping the wing. Like David and Howard said, I might end up with other problems. I do know others put tabs on there flaps, or tweak them, so maybe warping it will work without messing up the wing. I have put trim tabs on planes with no flaps to fix a warped condition. What do you all think about this? Is warping the flap going to be as bad as warping the wing? Since I am trimming challenged I need input.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2011, 03:23:46 PM »

Jim
By wash in that the warp will roll the airplane in to the circle when upright?

Or Wash in as in the center line of airfoil section is L.E. down compared to the center section airfoil section?

The second one would cause more of the out board wing low than just the high vertical CG would.

Get the wing straight and then tweek the flaps for fine tuning inside and outside line tension.

Learn to ignore the high/low wing tip.

Worked good on the P-40

Just the ideas bouncing around in the ol noggin on the subject at the moment.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2011, 03:25:09 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kraft on February 21, 2011, 03:20:02 PM

Well! Yes! I could do that Floyd, or Teds thing with supporting it by the wing tips and putting bricks on the fuse to add dihedral. Or Teds other trick where I could leave it on the garage floor and let my wife Lova run over it. All having about the same outcome. I am just soooo glad to have you guys to help me trim my plane.

David

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2011, 03:48:07 PM »

Well! Ok David. You beat me to changing my post when I realized that Floyd didn't mean to put the plane in the microwave. LOL . I tried and it wouldn't fit. And it won't run with the door open. I then reread Floyds post and promptly changed it. Then you came along. I have never had as much fun trimming a plane in all my life, and it's only been flown 3 times. LOL. Sure hope it warms up soon. I need to get out. LOL

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2011, 04:47:29 PM »

I bet your partner in life would like a bigger microwave! Problem solved

Let me know what happens. Tomorow is maiden for mine!

#

David

Pat Johnston · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2011, 04:56:21 AM »

Back to Ted Fancher's comments on the Mustang/Yak-9. Ted, How would you compare the performance of either of these two to a regular S-1 Ringmaster? I had a yak when I was a Teen-ager, and it seemed good enough, but that was a long time ago.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works

Bill Little · « **Reply #31 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:55:04 AM »

HI Jim,

Great looking models as always! y!

You really like the Magician w/McCoy .40! We've only had one Magician, and it had the "Jim Lee" mods to it. Flew great for its short life span (Aaron was still "learning"! LOL!!). I should do a proper repair, it only shed to outboard wing, the rest was fine.

As to the Mustang..... you know, when we were young, it didn't seem like a problem as long as it didn't chases around the circle for 5 minutes! LOL!! If it flew a but canted on the lines, it would still do all the stunts I could do, and I really liked it. I like it that you now have a model like the one you had years ago and it flies! Maybe just making sure it gets trimmed so that it will do all the stunts you can do and that it doesn't chase you around the circle for 5 minutes (trying to turn in on ya! LOL!!) is a good scenario to shoot for. I think you can achieve that and still fly about a 300 point OTS pattern.

I will have my Sterling Yak done before too long, will post pictures here, and I only hope I am as pleased with mine as you are with your Mustang. it's been a LONG time coming! (trying to figure out how to jig up the laser cut ribs I got)

Big Bear

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2011, 12:53:37 PM »

Thanks Bill; It is a hoot to fly a blast from the past. I cut holes in the ribs on mine with sharpened brass tubing, so that I could use my homemade rod method. I think that is part of the problem. LOL. The wing is to straight. LOL. And I am pretty sure the one I built 45 years ago flew about the same as my new one. But, I do not remember any problems with it coming in, and the new one seems to be good everywhere also. You know what, you are right. Back then we did not worry to much about trimming at all, at least I didn't. If the plane would fly we were good to go. I do not think the Mustang can be trimmed according to the Paul Walker trim chart. LOL. I am going to fly it and have fun. Hmmm! 300 points! Not with the little stick with the wires attached in my hands. LOL.

Send pictures of your Yak when you get her done. We will be looking forward to it.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #33 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:31:57 PM »

Well today we flew,,,the P-51.

The results are top secret pending release of video documentary by Jamie!

He should have it uploaded soon?

In the mean while the only comment I can make is after 2 flights is HeHeHe HaHaHa Grins and Giggles!

David

Bill Little · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:13:36 AM »

Quote from: W.D. Roland on February 22, 2011, 10:31:57 PM

Well today we flew,,,the P-51.

The results are top secret pending release of video documentary by Jamie!

He should have it uploaded soon?

In the mean while the only comment I can make is after 2 flights is HeHeHe HaHaHa Grins and Giggles!

David

David (and Jim! LOL!!)

Ain't it just plain old FUN when we get to fly a model that we once had in our "younger days"? Just for the fun of it...........

I have a couple models in the work area that I had as a kid. One is a PDQ Circus Prince that I built in 1964. It is still in good working order, I made a few repairs and straightened a slight warp (was it there when I first built it?? LOL!!) and it will fly again before too long, with the exact same McCoy .19 RH, and same paint scheme, I used when it was "new"!

I also have some laser cut ribs for a Sterling P-51. Guess with you two guys building yours, I will just have to move it up in the pile!

Bill

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:13:22 PM »

I got out again in the wind today to fly both planes. The Magician flew superbly like they always do. Horay!!! The Mustang is flying flat both upright and inverted, and is still flying the manuevers great. The added heavier Dubro Low Bounce wheels, and the flap tweak did the trick. I even slowed it down into a 2-4 break, and it still few very well. I am really happy with the way it fly's, and the way the Fox is running. Just a great combo all around.

Dave; You just have to give us a hint on your Mustang flight. This secret stuff just won't do here. LOL. We are watching and waiting. ( Drumming fingers on key board.)