First flight: My new SV - 11

[james dean]

Here's my new SV - 11 that I've been working on since 2005.  It made it's first flight today at Whittier Narrows with much help from the guys. It was a team effort and I'd like to thank those who helped me get this project up into the heavens!

This is my first piped ship, WOW! These are so cool to fly!      

There was a take off that tracked well,  then there was the flight that stayed out at the end of the lines with good manners, then there was an equally smooth landing with good handling.  But oops, sorry guys I stopped out on the other side of the circle!

Now there's all the pesky flight trimming to do.......... It'd be nice if the planes just came off the board ready for the next contest.

[Greg L Bahrman]

Hi James,
Nice talking with you at sepulveda. Yeah that SV-11 is a beauty, a ship to be proud of. Now that your smoking the pipe your Cardinal will become a hangar queen. Again very nice.....Lou

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

Very nice.  Love the colour scheme, simple, flowing, beautiful, just right!

[Scott B. Riese]

HAY JIM.YOU DID IT!!!!! Bout time you came around to the dark side. Greg....JIM is a good friend....kick him in the knee the next time you see him!!! 

[Warren Wagner]

James,

That's a beautiful looking ship....you did a superb job.   Love that color scheme....it really looks special.

Glad that your initial flights were uneventful....I can imagine the anxiety level.

How about a few details, starting with the finish, and maybe a few construction photos....those are always interesting.

As far as trimming is concerned, always try to enlist the help of some experienced pilots with good, critical observation skills.  You need someone on the outside of the circle that can watch and tell you what you and the plane are doing.  I find it very difficult to fly and to critically watch the behavior of the plane.   Also, having an expert pilot actually fly your plane can usually tell a lot about the plane's behavior.

I understand your position well, because I too flew my first piped plane earlier this year.....a SV-12XL with PA61....scary, but fun.

Good luck.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

[Randy Powell]

Cool plane. Yea, the first flights on a pipe ship that is working well can be a real revelation. Fun stuff.

I also like the paint scheme. Very effective.

[William DeMauro]

Good luck with that plane!!!!! I've flown mostly SV11's for the last 12 or 13 years and that's one of the nicest I've seen. Thanks for posting it!!!

[John Stiles]

Very nice 

[Russ Danneman]

sweet plane

[Derek Barry]

Good lookin plane!

 Give us some info. Motor, weight, Prop, etc.

[james dean]

Thanks guys for the positive words, kinda makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy

The amount of well restrained horse power the PA .51 makes is awesome!  The PA is much quieter on the pipe than my LA .46 is.

Well, here's some stats:

PA .51 on Smith/Werwage pipe (early model pipe)
6 oz. metal tank (uniflow/air ram)
Majik 12x4.33 3 blade  (this is an undercamber bladed prop)
All dope finish  
Plane weight is 68 oz.
65 ft. lines to start with
Built from a Randy Smith kit (really nice, very complete)

This project has gone along for way too much time and as a result I just never took very many pic.s. However there is an old thread I wrote a year ago on this plane under: "My new SV -11" in the archives. It's still there if you want to see a pic of the sanded substrate in primer.   I guess I just thought people who build at this level would not be interested in my build.

The Bob Hunt lost foam jig was great to build that Warren truss wing though. Nice system for a true wing. Thanks Bob Hunt!

I have to confess, the paint scheme belongs to Steve Yampolsky's "Stoli Special"  (Steve I hope I spelled your name right--My apologies if not)

That plane just looked sooo cool!! Theres a pic of it in the archives here on the forum. (Stunt in the Berkshires 2009)


Putting the finish on this bird was really the hard part of the build. There was an issue with the Nitrate dope that caused the imperfections that were sanded nice and smooth to be telegraphed to the surface of the Butyrate overcoats. I have sanded the airframe down to the polyspan four times and started over with fresh Butyrate each time with the same results.  It was either take off the polyspan and start over or just gut it out and try to make things work on the trouble spots.

Building from the kit was a pleasure and Randy has been very helpful with my questions.  Framing this kit up was straightforward with no troubles.

It was just the trouble with the Nitrate dope substrate that gave issue.  In the end the bad areas gave in to some TLC and I was able to procede to the clear without much difficulty.  There is some orange peel in those trouble areas that remain.  

At this point: 4 years +. It's time to just take my leasons learned and go fly the plane!  Hey! the weight didn't turn out half bad!

[james dean]

Another pic.

[Warren Wagner]

James,

Tell us a little more about the problem that was caused by the nitrate dope.

What did the surface look like that prompted you to resand the surface so many times?

Can I conclude that you would NOT use nitrate dope again?

Sharing your experience can help prevent us from going down the same road.

Funny thing....nitrate dope....some people swear by it, and others swear at it.

Beautiful plane.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

[james dean]

James,

Tell us a little more about the problem that was caused by the nitrate dope.

What did the surface look like that prompted you to resand the surface so many times?

Can I conclude that you would NOT use nitrate dope again?

Sharing your experience can help prevent us from going down the same road.

Funny thing....nitrate dope....some people swear by it, and others swear at it.

Beautiful plane.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

Warren, I don't know what to say but the Nitrate I used probably had some kind of incompatibility issue with the Butyrate I was using. I used a different brand of Nitrate than the Butyrate which may have been the root cause in itself.  

The Nitrate would sand down to a nice finish with all imperfections repaired for the next coat, wonderful. The next coat of Butyrate would go on and as the Butyrate was drying, there would come either "Orange Peel" or a repaired  imperfection would come to the surface!  This re-occured all through out the finishing.

A wise airplane finisher from up in Port Angles, WA once said something like: "never mix brands or even batch numbers of paint".

I don't think that my experience with Nitrate as a substrate has changed others people's success, but rather it seems that mixing one brand of Nitrate with another brand of Butyrate would be my conclusion of where this project went bad.

Was it bad Nitrate? was it chemical incompatibility? We won't know and just to be safe, I will just use Butyrate from start to finish with the same brand/manfgr..   This has given me good results from start to finish before.  I will leave the experimentation to guys like Randy Powell.

Having fun and loving my new pipe plane,

James Dean

[Shultzie]

Beautiful...but let me reduce this photo size so that I can step back and look at the entire picture.
Great high reso' photos and a nice paint scheme that will show up in the air nicely against either a dark cloudly day...or a bright blue sunny one.

[Matt Colan]

Hey I know that paint scheme!!  Good looking SV-11 James!!

[james dean]

Yes matt, you and I spoke of it a while back.

[Matt Colan]

Yes matt, you and I spoke of it a while back.

Yep, I remember that.  Here's a pic of Steve Yampolsky's Stoli Special, that I might add flies wonderfully, I flew six back to back flights with it, and I felt like I was flying that plane really well at the end of it.  Ask Steve about the blinding corners he saw me making with that plane.

[Alan Buck]

the sv planes are sweet flying planes. I have a sv22 with a pa 51 &pipe weighs 60ozs a joy to fly. Good luck with yours and enjoy yours

[George Grossardt]

You know what I like about this plane - the simple paint design.  Classic and good looking.

[W.D. Roland]

Nice and clean James!

That looks really sharp.
Now you have me thinking about abandoning Monokote and learning to paint again.

[steven yampolsky]

Yep, I remember that.  Here's a pic of Steve Yampolsky's Stoli Special, that I might add flies wonderfully, I flew six back to back flights with it, and I felt like I was flying that plane really well at the end of it.  Ask Steve about the blinding corners he saw me making with that plane.

Matt has brought out a very good point! Paint scheme is a critical ingredient in the way a model presents itself in the air. You will find that people will think that your model flies hard corners as compared to your other models.
Another purpose of a paint scheme that gets little exposure is how happy it makes one feel. Bright, happy colors make one feel more upbeat than dark, moody colors. I found a while back that happy judges tend to score higher than grumpy ones.

[Steve Helmick]

Nice plane, Jim. I just wish you'd get yourself back up here and out of that boring weather place!

When judging, I have noticed a tendency to give more points to a plane that is easy to see, vs. one that is difficult to see. It's probably the reduced effort required...not saying it's right...but it's something to consider when you're selecting your color combinations.  Steve

[Randy Powell]

Steve,

That's certain. It's why I'm staying away for planes that look cool on the ground, but disappear into a dark smudge in the air. James' plane looks like it will present very well and not disappear in the air.

[steven yampolsky]

James,

I love that red line transition into the canopy! Very cool!

Steve

[james dean]

Randy, Steve,


Thanks very much for the encouragement.  Steve, I hope I did justice to your paint scheme. Everyone out here in SOCAL has been impressed with this paint scheme.  Kudo's to you    

Steve,  on your Stoli Special canopy, is that red over black transitioning to a red stripe? 

Randy,  my last ship I completed was a dark blue w/black trim over white G. Nobler. It came out good enough but I made a vow that this is my last "Dark" airplane.   You've inspired me to bright colors and sweeping contrasts. The SV-11 almost got one of your schemes though.  I'm forgetting the name but it had a 4 stroke in it at one point. Didn't you give that one to Mark Scarborough? sp? 


Put up 3 flights today on the SV-11 and its coming along nicely. Right now just the gross adjustments like fine tuning the handle, tip wt., leadout rake, tank height, etc.  What a wonderful design. I was concerned that it would just rip my shoulder out but its no worse than my G. Nobler.


Having fun,

James Dean

Right now it's doing about 5.4 sec. laps w/ 65' lines.  Very solid in the overheads and turns like a sport car!!    

[Matt Colan]

Put up 3 flights today on the SV-11 and its coming along nicely. Right now just the gross adjustments like fine tuning the handle, tip wt., leadout rake, tank height, etc.  What a wonderful design. I was concerned that it would just rip my shoulder out but its no worse than my G. Nobler.

   

I've flown a couple of big piped ships (Steve Yampolsky's is one of them), and the other one weighed 72 ounces, and it pulled MUCH MUCH less than a 65 ounce ST 60 powered airplane that I've flown.   Maybe it is just because it is the pipe, because I was going 4.5 on one of Stoli Special's flights I got, and it still pulled less than Grandpa's P-40.

[steven yampolsky]

I've flown a couple of big piped ships (Steve Yampolsky's is one of them), and the other one weighed 72 ounces, and it pulled MUCH MUCH less than a 65 ounce ST 60 powered airplane that I've flown.   Maybe it is just because it is the pipe, because I was going 4.5 on one of Stoli Special's flights I got, and it still pulled less than Grandpa's P-40.

Matt, pipes have very little to do with it. I used to fly a '92 red Cardinal with ST60 that pulled as much as my Stoli. It's all in the balancing of the airframe

Keeping CG as close to CL(center of lift) as possible and relying on a big stab to compensate for inherent instability is a sure way to keep line tension down. Here are few basic rules of thumb:

1) move CG as far back as you can until the model is unstable in level flight or rachets in rounds.
2) keep leadouts 1" behind the CG. 1.25 if you like to fly fast.
3) use tip weight to increase line tension overhead. Add until model begins to hinge in square maneuvers and than back out a bit.

All this assumes that your model is assembled straight and of reasonable weight. All these "triming tricks" aren't worth the bytes used type them is the model is not straight.

Steve

P.S. I did not come up with it. I try to absorb as much as I can from the experts such as Dave Cook and Rich Campbell of District 1 and such prolific CL educators as Ted Fancher, Brett Buck and Paul Walker. Everything those guys write is gold.

[steven yampolsky]

Steve,  on your Stoli Special canopy, is that red over black transitioning to a red stripe? 

The canopy is SIG Magenta. Very beautiful color. Has this cool metallic tint to it.

Right now it's doing about 5.4 sec. laps w/ 65' lines.  Very solid in the overheads and turns like a sport car!!    

If you really want to see your SV turn, get Matt to fly it! 

[Matt Colan]

If you really want to see your SV turn, get Matt to fly it! 

 

[james dean]

Steven, Matt,

So, whats the story on the tight turn thing guys?

[Matt Colan]

Steven, Matt,

So, whats the story on the tight turn thing guys?

Basically, when I was flying Stoli, Steve was making comments about how razor sharp the corners were, like Paul Walker kind of sharp!  I had one flight at 4.5 and he said the corners were EXTREMELY sharp.  Next flight, Steve richened it up, and I was flying at 5.5, and I softened up the corners because the plane probably would've fallen out of the sky, but Steve still said the corners were razor sharp.

Two weeks later at the Mass Cup, I saw Steve flying that plane with razor sharp corners, and I told him something like, "I guess after seeing me fly it, you could see how tight she turns."

That's the jist of the tight turn thing, and I'm sure Steve will add on it. 

[Leo Mehl]

Nice plane, Jim. I just wish you'd get yourself back up here and out of that boring weather place!

When judging, I have noticed a tendency to give more points to a plane that is easy to see, vs. one that is difficult to see. It's probably the reduced effort required...not saying it's right...but it's something to consider when you're selecting your color combinations.  Steve

Ya we kmow that you are influenced by a lot of thinggs when you judge! Nice looking plane. I like it

[john e. holliday]

Come on now Leo,  you know judges are as different as people.  Some are great and some not so great(like me).  We have to learn to put up with what we can get and be satisfied.  Now lets all HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR

PS:Also I fly against my self, I can tell when I do good and when I don't.  I don't even puck up score sheets anymore. jeh

[stunt1]

Hey Jim,

Good Luck with the SV-11. Every one that I've seen seems to fly good. Your paint scheme is simple and Elegant and looks good in the air, I'm sure. Yampolsky S/B flattered.

Cheers and Happy and Safe New Year,

Bob "Champione" Lampione

[john e. holliday]

Stealing is a SIN,  so I just borrow and don't return.  Don't even give credit either. 

[steven yampolsky]

Stealing is a SIN,  so I just borrow and don't return.  Don't even give credit either. 

What he said. From the looks of it, James gave it his own touch. That makes it original trim! James, enjoy the fruits of your labor. If you think Stoli Special is original, you're mistaken. Here's the recipe for coming up with a model trim:

1) Give markers of the colors you want to use to a child with a bunch of printouts of the model profile. My 6 year old daughter is an expert trim designer!
2) Skim through picutres on forums and AMA MA rag for trim ideas. RC racing planes are best for trim ideas since for them visibility is essential.

I used this approach for two models now. Child's imagination is amazing.

Steve

P.S. I'm flattered that someone like my trim enough to have their own rendition of it. Biggest confidence boost if there ever was one. Thank you James!

[james dean]

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the kudos   I've heard over the years from others that have been around awhile that its a fine old tradition to steal others paint schemes    I think that's really cool that your daughter was the brain "Child" for this paint scheme!!

So now, after 5 flights the paint seems to be staying were it was put with no problems...........so far


Thanks for the story of how the "Stoli Special" got her colors   My compliments to your daughter!

James Dean