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Author Topic: Fiorotti programing g force  (Read 4787 times)

Offline Shorts,David

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Fiorotti programing g force
« on: April 21, 2024, 11:30:43 PM »
Hi, so I have my fioretti programmed so it kicks in extra power when the nose points up. But it also says g force in another programming window.
When I did my vertical 8 today, it kicked in extra power on the first loop, but by the top of the second loop it doesn't register the nose as pointed up and I lose my power boost.  How does the g force programming work? I'm sure there must be benefits to this timer. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 07:55:02 PM by Shorts,David »

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Fioretti programing g force
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2024, 07:09:06 AM »
Hi, so I have my fioretti programmed so it kicks in extra power when the nose points up. But it also says g force in another programming window.
When I did my vertical 8 today, it kicked in extra power on the first loop, but by the top of the second loop it doesn't register the nose as pointed up and I lose my power boost.  How does the g force programming work? I'm sure there must be benefits to this timer. 
Learning how to balance nose up and g-force is a plane-by-plane exercise.  I have been using Fiorotti for three years and it turns out different on each plane.  I prefer using g-force to nose up.  I have been told that it works by measuring the difference in gravitational pull but somehow I think centrifugal force also plays a part.  That is why you need to calibrate to set a level flight base line.  The boost from nose up is hard to regulate in the rounds and a real problem in winds over 10 where it creates serious wind up.  The nominal boost from the sensitivity setting is enough for most of the pattern.  Nose up is great for the RWO and the 1st leg of the hourglass but you get the same boost, only a bit later with g-force.  I was given some advice when I first started using the timer to turn off nose up and g-force and trim the plane to fly as best it could using only rpm and sensitivity.  With those settings start adding the others till you had it like you wanted it.  Of course, I ignored that and wasted a lot of time messing around.  A relatively high g-force setting is like adding an extra gear that automatically shifts when the lines start to slacken.  It has it's maximum benefit in back end of the pattern starting with the V8.  It takes some getting used to, especially in the OH8 and level flight in wind.  In my experience G-Force is an electric 4-2-4.

Just for grins, turn off nose up, crank g-force way up and see what it does.  Then do the same with Nose Up and g-force off.  That will tell you when each kicks in.   Also watch the corners.  Are you getting boost coming out of the corner or after you exit it?  Also be careful of g-force if you fly big.  You may get an unwanted boost at the top of the loops.

Good luck.  My settings will probably differ from others, and I hope that they will chime in as well so we all can learn more about this timer.

Ken
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 07:19:39 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Fioretti programing g force
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2024, 06:24:43 PM »
Thanks Ken, I'll definitely put that advice to use.

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2024, 08:08:35 PM »
Ill try to add to Kens post with a little user experience. My use of force terms may not be good engineer-speak as I dont know that language.

If your timer says G-force in a window, it is likely a v6.4.  The V6.5 has more G-force options showing in the window.  If you just turn G-force on to its lowest on setting, it will then show you the outward force that you are flying with, as the number of Gs equivalent (after calibration).  In addition, you will notice that you get a rapid blink of the light for about 3.5 4 laps as it calibrates to find that number.  Fly level in those first laps until regular blinking.  When you are directly overhead, the plane is pulled down directly along the lines with a force of 1 G.  So, overhead the force that the timer shows for level lap is decreased by 1 G.  At some value of outward force less than the calibrated, the timer will add rpm based on the amount of G-force selected.  That amount is preset in the timer.  At some point in elevation, there is enough downward force along the lines to turn on G-force.  In real flight conditions, speed may also decrease as the plane climbs and give further decrease in outward force/G-force.  G-force may come on in the 45 50 range and then be active above.  Meaning it may be on at the tops of some horizontal maneuvers.  In moderate wind, G force can add or subtract rpm in level flight if the wind pushes the plane up wind, of pulls out enough downwind to exceed the force change threshold.  After you understand calibration and the G-force number, it is easy to adjust the G-force setting to fit your style.  5 - 10 is a reasonable starting value.

Nose up seems to come on in the 20 nose pointed up range and then goes off at less.  Not elevation, but nose point angle.  Nose up does not care if the plane needs a boost for acceleration or force, it just comes on with the angle.
 
Of course Sensitivity settings also enter in.  You can turn off Sensitivity and learn nose up and G-force as already mentioned.

Hope this helps.

See the manual here
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/fiortti-timer/msg660554/#msg660554
a pdf in reply 116.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 08:30:31 PM by Fred Underwood »
Fred
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Offline Matt Brown

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2024, 08:29:01 AM »
Thank you Ken and Fred! Ive flown the Fiorotti the last two years but never used the G force setting as I never read an explanation of it. Ill be experimenting with it soon! Flying in windy conditions has always been an issue as my plane really winds up. Using that to tame wind up is very exciting!

Matt

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2024, 04:31:55 PM »
Unless I did something wrong, my g-force programming only goes up to 5. So I set it at 3 and didn't see any difference. I'll try it at the max, 5, next time I go out. I am still using chinese escs to save weight, but perhaps I need to put in my castle 50s for the g force to work properly.

David

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2024, 07:23:55 PM »
What specific timer version are you using.  The timer should program even if not attached to the ESC, so the ESC should not limit the programming to 5.  It might affect function, but not programming.
Fred
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2024, 08:58:01 PM »
Unless I did something wrong, my g-force programming only goes up to 5. So I set it at 3 and didn't see any difference. I'll try it at the max, 5, next time I go out. I am still using chinese escs to save weight, but perhaps I need to put in my castle 50s for the g force to work properly.

David
It goes from 0 (off) to 100 so something is not right.  You aren't going to see much at 5.  I am currently set at 20.  I have gone higher in wind.

Ken
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2024, 08:13:52 AM »
Okay, it is version 6.5
G force stops at 4.oo

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2024, 09:11:07 AM »
I will check my version numbers on mine Monday.  6.5 may be the version but I think there are multiple revisions within that.  I have one of the latest and it's predecessor.  You might try emailing Fiorotti and asking him what might be wrong.

Ken
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Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2024, 03:05:14 PM »
A picture is worth a thousand words, the Jeti box helps.

On that screen, don't set the G-force, it is a calculated value, described in my post above.  The value is not useful with G-force I and D set at off.  When you turn on I and/or D, the timer will calibrate.  Again, noted in above post.  During calibration, you will observe rapid blinking for approximately 3.5 laps, which indicates the need to fly level for successful calibration. Then the G-force value will be calibrated by the timer and give you a value.  That value will likely be in the 3.3 range.  If you then change the G-force number with the I and/or D remaining on, then you don't get a new calibration automatically but the timer will use the G-force that you entered.  I do not recommend this as you can end up with the timer using a lot of battery trying to get to your number.  It can have a purpose, but it will take a lot of trial and error to get it to be helpful.

G-force is calibrated automatically if you change base rpm.  You will know if it is calibrating by the initial fast blink for 3.5 laps.

At the G-force screen, to add more increase rpm, or a larger decrease, use the I and D functions on that screen, not a manual change of G-force.

You can turn off I and D and the G-force number will still show, but it is not being used if at least I or D is 1 or more.

I suggest that from you are, you turn on I and/or D to 1 and let it calibrate to see how it works.  Observe the rapid blink and see that you get a G-force value of around 3.3.  That could be off a bit based on your line length and lap time.  Try a short flight to see that it works, then change base rpm up of down a few clicks and see that it recalibrates, and that you get a different G-force.  If that all works, then try 5 for I and D, and if that works you can then choose your settings. 

But be careful to check your flight time and battery usage.  It is easy to forget that you are on a short flight time and begin a pattern.  If you do that, you may be grateful for the blinking light.  It is a thrill to get partway through a pattern and see the light stay on.  At least you have 2 laps to figure out that you are going to land, or arrive.  Worse is to get low battery because you didn't keep track.  I speak from experience :-).

I hope this helps.
Fred
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2024, 11:42:26 PM »
Great, that's why I posted the picture. I'll try turning on I and d. 

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Fiorotti programing g force
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2024, 07:25:30 AM »
Great, that's why I posted the picture. I'll try turning on I and d. 
Please report back in as much detail as you can.  I have my first 6.5 waiting to be installed in my new twin.  From this discussion, I may switch it out for the 6.4 I have in my current plane.  I rely heavily on G-Force for my particular style, especially in wind and trimming a canard equipped twin with logarithmic flaps might just be enough to make my brain stop (some think it already has for even building this plane!) with the added features of the 6.5.
If I read correctly, this is your first Fiorotti which gives you the advantage of learning it without being clouded by the way older versions worked.

The canard is very sensitive to changes in speed in round maneuvers.  If I get too much boost at the top of a round they tend to walk or tighten up.  G-Force will not cause this to happen if you keep your maneuvers at 45.  In fact, feeling g-force kick in is an instant reminder I am flying too big. The movement off center of the loop when this happens is an unwelcome surprise of as much as three feet in the direction of *it's* choosing.  I have it set now so that I so not have the problem if I fly the right sizes.  This sort of thing is a death wish for flying at the higher levels, so I need to master it.

It will be several months till I need to fly the new twin so time is on my side.  Maybe by then there will be enough discussion here on the 6.5 that I will understand it better.

Ken
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


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