Author Topic: Finally Ready For Paint (Read 23246 times)

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #50 on:** September 01, 2010, 11:41:49 AM »

Howard;

I have a 4 oz bottle of red in front of me and it statesSpecially Formulated for Brodak by Randolf Products Co. Made in USA. I am not sure of anything now. My Brodak retarder says the same thing. Maybe Randolph makes it to Brodak Specs. I know the Crystal Clear is just that. Crystal Clear. It makes SGM Silkspan on Balsa disappear.
I placed the order to Brodak any way this time because I am comfortable using it. My plan is to spray the finish this time. I have never sprayed one before, not even with a rattle can. I am a little reluctant to say the least.

"G-Man"

Bill Little · « **Reply #51 on:** September 01, 2010, 02:45:58 PM »

HI all,

Brodak dope is made by Randolph. it does have a slight difference in its composition but I am not sure what.

There are only three companies in the USA (maybe the world) that still make "aircraft dope", AFAIK. So even though there are a few different "labels", they are all made by just a few actual manufacturing companies. Randolph is the largest, IIRC.

Most any dope is compatible (along with automotive acrylic lacquers if you can still get them) with each other these days for "our use". The horror stories that we hear are often times the result of the person applying, not the products. Funny that using the same thinner through out seems to make things work. And it doesn't *HAVE* to be the dope maker's thinner!

Big Bear

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #52 on:** September 03, 2010, 06:56:58 PM »

Quote from: Paul Taylor on September 01, 2010, 06:19:30 AM

Wheres the Paint?

It's right here Paul, but with 90% humidity from "Earl" it stays in the can.

"Billy G"

peabody · « **Reply #53 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:30:49 AM »

Howard is right...the early Brodak dopes were not the standard Randolph offerings, but rather blended to suit modeling best....colors were the same though.
As I understand, Randolph was sold to a west coast manufacturer...they revamped the distribution method and created several "master blenders" that receive pigment, carrier and additives in bulk (55 gallon drums) and these people mix the stuff according to formula....Brodak is doing this now.....and has been for several years...
The Brodak line has always had a higher percentage of pigment...
Have fun!

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #54 on:** September 04, 2010, 10:20:09 AM »

So you are saying John Brodak buys the ingrediants from Randolph and mixes it on site?

Started Paul.

"Billy G"

peabody · « **Reply #55 on:** September 04, 2010, 10:33:00 AM »

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #56 on:** September 04, 2010, 08:06:31 PM »

Thanx Rich;

  Any word on the 2X S1?

  Primer done, bad spots filled again. On to color after spot primer on these spots. Sparky I gotta thank you for all the tips you have given on this Forum about finishing. This is undoubtedly the best I have ever done. That goes for the rest of you guys to.

  "Billy G"

wwwarbird · « **Reply #57 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:23:51 PM »

Is it me, or does this plane get bigger every time I look at it?

Bill Little · « **Reply #58 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:31:21 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on September 04, 2010, 09:23:51 PM

Is it me, or does this plane get bigger every time I look at it?

HI Wayne,

Billy G just sets it in a bucket of fertilizer (laced with steroids) every night. It just grows and grows............

(It is *G*igantic! )

Mongo

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #59 on:** September 05, 2010, 07:57:40 AM »

Nope, (cough) it's that (gasp) clean (choke) Conne (Gasp) cticut eyewatering air. (cough, gasp)

"Billy G"

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #60 on:** September 05, 2010, 09:35:06 AM »

I love it when a plan comes together!

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #61 on:** September 11, 2010, 10:35:53 AM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on August 27, 2010, 09:53:38 AM

It has taken close to three years on and off to get this Beast to this point. LOL Buit the SDR is finally ready for Primer and Paint. Lite Yellow base with Green Trim. Special graffics by Louis Rankin in Black.

"Billy G"

Man it's about time you finished this or I probably would have never seen it. I think I was 75 when you started it but am now 78. Lookin good Billy!

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #62 on:** September 11, 2010, 05:02:17 PM »

Hey-hey-hey Leo ole pal, where you been? Glad you like it. Primer goes on the wing tomorrow and it's ready for color. Won't be long now. Glad to see you still hanging around. Ain't heard a peep from Shultzie either.

"Billy G"

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #63 on:** September 13, 2010, 07:37:37 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on September 11, 2010, 05:02:17 PM

Hey-hey-hey Leo ole pal, where you been? Glad you like it. Primer goes on the wing tomorrow and it's ready for color. Won't be long now. Glad to see you still hanging around. Ain't heard a peep from Shultzie either.

"Billy G"

I really enjoy LURKING

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #64 on:** September 14, 2010, 06:09:38 PM »

Quote from: Leo Mehl on September 13, 2010, 07:37:37 PM

I really enjoy LURKING

Keep lurking Leo, it becomes you.

Now I had to build a paint stand to hold those rather large parts. I start shooting color tomorrow I hope. This paint stand cost me three days of scrounging and $4.06. Rotates 360 in Horizontal or Vertical Positions.

"Billy G"

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #65 on:** September 21, 2010, 04:14:43 PM »

Primer done color tomorrow. This has been a tough haul. I never used a spray gun before so don't be too hard on me.

"Billy G"

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #66 on:** September 21, 2010, 04:29:47 PM »

I like it!!!!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #67 on:** September 22, 2010, 11:08:12 AM »

Looking good. Remember practice makes perfect.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #68 on:** September 22, 2010, 11:37:10 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on September 22, 2010, 11:08:12 AM

Looking good. Remember practice makes perfect.

Yup. It's only taken me three three decades of squirting paint to get it right.
(of course, I did take a few breaks).

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #69 on:** October 14, 2010, 06:55:51 AM »

It's been 22 or so days and 14 straight rain days but the base coat is done. It took sonme time also to get over the intimidation of the spray gun but we overcame it. Parts hangin gassing off. Trim Saturday.

"Billy G"

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #70 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:15:53 AM »

Keep on it G-man, its looking good.
painting is just like any other endevour, the first time you ahve all the unknowns,, then you gradually have to deal with them, and figure stuff out. eventually you only get mildly nervous before you spray!

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #71 on:** October 14, 2010, 10:34:58 AM »

Thank you Mark. You know without your help and guidance I don't think the results would be the same. I owe you big time.

"Billy G

"

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #72 on:** October 14, 2010, 11:04:00 AM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on September 01, 2010, 09:55:00 AM

I should qualify my previous snotty comment. It could be that Brodak dope is better than Randolph for our purposes, and that could be because Brodak dope has more expensive stuff in it. Both companies would be subject to the same EPA rules, so I reckon there is some free-market reason why Brodak costs more than

It could just be that Brodak is smaller volume than Randolph. Randolph's is gonna want to charge Brodak for the special mixing, handling and labeling, and Brodak is going to have to pass that on to somebody -- and that somebody is us, of course.

Were Brodak to have some serious competition then you'd either see them go out of business or their prices go down. But given that Sig seems to be OK material, and that a lot of serious folk know (or firmly believe) that Brodak dope is just custom colored Randolph dope in Brodak packaging, Brodak already has some obvious competition.

I think if I ever do another doped finish I'm going to check the two big general aviation airports close by, and see if there's an FBO there that sells Randolph dope. I'll give it a whirl and see if it works OK.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #73 on:** October 14, 2010, 12:54:05 PM »

Tim,
FWIW, they Puyallup contest in the early summer is at the airport, and there is Spensers , the front door of their business opens right into the edge of where we pit our airplanes..
I buy my clear AND THINNER from Aircraft spruce, mail order,, but then all my color and topcoats are automotive base clear systems...

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #74 on:** October 14, 2010, 07:49:04 PM »

Billy G; That thing looks huge, but where's the seat?

Very nice work, and looks like you are learning how to use that spray gun. Keep us informed with pictures.

Brad Smith · « **Reply #75 on:** October 14, 2010, 08:52:10 PM »

Looks great and big hey Bill are there any plans available if so how much?

wwwarbird · « **Reply #76 on:** October 14, 2010, 08:58:22 PM »

Lookin' good Bill. Can't wait to see it done, and the flight video!

Garf · « **Reply #77 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:15:39 PM »

I wish I could be there the first time you start that thing.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #78 on:** October 15, 2010, 07:22:58 AM »

The paint gun can be extremely intimidating. If there is one thing I will remember it is the one word Mark hammered into my head -- PATIENCE. Thiank you all for your kind words. It will be finished soon. It's raining again today so with a dry out day tomorrow looks like trim on sunday. I have changed the color for the trim. Brite Green would not do at all. I wend to a more conservative Grumman Green. It should get here today. Thanx go to Randy Powell also. If it wasn't for hos Ringmaster Delux paint job I don't think I would have tried this hard. Allen Perret also was a help even though he was not aware of it. Then there is the entire Brotherhood Of The Ring. It goes without saying how much all of them helped. Hey Lurker Leo, where are you.

"Billy G"

john e. holliday · « **Reply #79 on:** October 16, 2010, 06:35:49 PM »

Don't wake him up yet. I hear he gets grumpier than me/I when the nap is not complete.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #80 on:** October 17, 2010, 06:20:32 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on October 16, 2010, 06:35:49 PM

Don't wake him up yet. I hear he gets grumpier than me/I when the nap is not complete.

Thanks for the heads up "Doc". I forgot he is probably hibernating by now.

"Billy G"

billbyles · « **Reply #81 on:** October 17, 2010, 11:19:11 AM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on August 31, 2010, 07:47:28 PM

Bill,

<snip> Brodak crystal clear is special made for Brodak and probably is not available at a Randolph dealer. <snip>

While this is a bit late (like a month and a half) I just saw this thread - I have used Randolph butyrate dope products extensively over the past twenty-plus years or so and can state unequivocally that Randolph butyrate clear has no tint & is completely clear. If the clear does appear to have an amber tint then it is most likely old and has been opened at some point. The amber begins to appear as a result of the dope becoming more acidic over time. Randolph products are high-quality stuff and are eminently suited for not only use on full-scale aircraft but also for our models. Sig dopes are the most fuel-resistant butyrates I have used with Randolph a close second. No butyrate dopes are fuel-proof.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #82 on:** October 18, 2010, 09:52:57 AM »

A couple of real good days finally. Wet sanded to 800 grit and ready for trim.

"Billy G"

wwwarbird · « **Reply #83 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:30:36 PM »

This is AWSOME!

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #84 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:49:10 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on October 18, 2010, 09:52:57 AM

A couple of real good days finally. Wet sanded to 800 grit and ready for trim.

I'm just awaiting the youtube video of you flying that monster. I hope you're getting your right triceps worked out real good for the "day".

"Honey, I know you wanted me to get into politics, but I definitely got 'pull' now!"

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #85 on:** November 01, 2010, 05:46:02 PM »

When they said taping was the long part, they weren't kidding.

Top and bottom of the wing, will shoot tomorrow.

"Billy G"

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #86 on:** November 01, 2010, 06:36:14 PM »

Bill, how many hours masking?, ,and it will take like 15 minutes to spray,, gotta love masking!
I like your scheme and layout,,

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #87 on:** November 01, 2010, 06:45:07 PM »

Someone knowledgeable probably could have done it faster but it took me over 17 hours. It was fun.

"Billy G"

Allan Perret · « **Reply #88 on:** November 01, 2010, 07:48:26 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on October 15, 2010, 07:22:58 AM

The paint gun can be extremely intimidating. If there is one thing I will remember it is the one word Mark hammered into my head -- PATIENCE. Thiank you all for your kind words. It will be finished soon. It's raining again today so with a dry out day tomorrow looks like trim on sunday. I have changed the color for the trim. Brite Green would not do at all. I wend to a more conservative Grumman Green. It should get here today. Thanx go to Randy Powell also. If it wasn't for hos Ringmaster Delux paint job I don't think I would have tried this hard. Allen Perret also was a help even though he was not aware of it. Then there is the entire Brotherhood Of The Ring. It goes without saying how much all of them helped. Hey Lurker Leo, where are you.

"Billy G"

Hey Gruby, wake up..
You are right. I was not aware that I helped. So how did I do that..

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #89 on:** November 01, 2010, 09:46:38 PM »

Lookig at your work made me push harder Allen, especially after the tape failure. I watched you do in one day what would have taken me a week. You were an inspiration.

"Billy G"

Allan Perret · « **Reply #90 on:** November 02, 2010, 07:09:10 AM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on November 01, 2010, 09:46:38 PM

Lookig at your work made me push harder Allen, especially after the tape failure. I watched you do in one day what would have taken me a week. You were an inspiration.

"Billy G"

"especially after the tape failure"
Just read this complete thread and didnt see anything about tape failure.
What was that about ?

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #91 on:** November 02, 2010, 08:40:12 AM »

Allen;

I had the whole bottom of the wing masked in two inch squares with 3M Blue Painters Tape. The one for delicate work on the orange roll/ It seem 3M changed something acording to their rep and every one of the squares lifted at least 1/3 off the wing and would not stay down. I changed to 3M 233+ Automotive Tape and replaced them all. That's why it took 17 hours. Mark told me about the 3M 233+ tape. Much better and more user friendly.I could have easily givin up on this paint job right then but that's not my way. We will get there.

"Billy G"

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #92 on:** November 02, 2010, 12:34:33 PM »

WOW!!! That is going to look too Kewl.

Go Billy Go !!!

Allan Perret · « **Reply #93 on:** November 02, 2010, 01:05:40 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on November 02, 2010, 08:40:12 AM

Allen;

I had the whole bottom of the wing masked in two inch squares with 3M Blue Painters Tape. The one for delicate work on the orange roll/ It seem 3M changed something acording to their rep and every one of the squares lifted at least 1/3 off the wing and would not stay down. I changed to 3M 233+ Automotive Tape and replaced them all. That's why it took 17 hours. Mark told me about the 3M 233+ tape. Much better and more user friendly.I could have easily givin up on this paint job right then but that's not my way. We will get there.

"Billy G"

When did the masking squares lift, when you sprayed the color coat, or before that.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #94 on:** November 02, 2010, 02:47:22 PM »

I taped the squares and they lifted overnight. It was the fault of the tape nothing else. I have gone over the problem at length with Mark. See BOR discussion on Masking Tape. It's fixed now so we are OK. The temps were too low today to shoot outdoors. Never got over 39 degrees. Tomorrow will be 50 degrees.

"Billy G"

Allan Perret · « **Reply #95 on:** November 02, 2010, 05:31:17 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on November 02, 2010, 02:47:22 PM

I taped the squares and they lifted overnight. It was the fault of the tape nothing else. I have gone over the problem at length with Mark. See BOR discussion on Masking Tape. It's fixed now so we are OK. The temps were too low today to shoot outdoors. Never got over 39 degrees. Tomorrow will be 50 degrees.

"Billy G"

OK, and good luck. The next big hurdle is after you shoot trim color and then start pulling tape. Go slow at first, if you see any tendency for tape to pull up any paint, it can help to heat it with hair dryer.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #96 on:** November 02, 2010, 05:46:30 PM »

Bill,
When using dope, it is a good idea to take a small brush and put some clear dope over the tape edge. It is very much worth the effort. When removing the tape, don't lift the tape up, rather pull the tape slowly back on itself. This helps to prevent pulling up the color that is under the tape.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #97 on:** November 02, 2010, 06:06:47 PM »

Everyone has their own way of doing this stuff but I never let tape set overnight. I figure the less time it spends on the model the better. I always take it off while the paint is still tacky, very carefully.

RC Storick · « **Reply #98 on:** November 03, 2010, 09:06:47 AM »

Quote from: billbyles on October 17, 2010, 11:19:11 AM

Sig dopes are the most fuel-resistant butyrates I have used with Randolph a close second. No butyrate dopes are fuel-proof.

The Nitro attackes even Urathane's, there is only a few paints that are fule proof.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #99 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:50:26 AM »

Robert;

Your comment interests me. Now that I have used the Brodak Dope exclusively on this project is there something else I can use to clear coat it other than dope?

"Billy G"