Stiff Tail Wheel Wire

[Ken Culbertson]

I am trying to rid my plane of it's last irritating trim issue.  Bouncing on landing.  Would adding a stiffer tail wheel wire help?  Here is the setup:

I use the Gieseke type long wire with the plane at 1 degree positive incidence when resting.

2", 1/2" wide Wheels are mounted 1 1/2" in front of the horizontal CG with an 18 degree forward lean.  (This may be part of the problem, I think this is supposed to be 14 degrees).

The landing counts as much as the square 8.  Why screw it up with an improperly setup plane.

Thanks - Ken

Pardon the finish, this is a monokoted testbed.

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

I'd say extra stiff MAINS with softer tires and landing technique will help.  When you fly with Doug there ask him to watch how you are approaching.  He will tell you NOT to have the airplane "look up"- in other words set it down pretty quickly and not slow the ship down where the tail drops, nose lifts and it settles for a three pointer- almost a sure bet bounce.  Drive it all the way straight in to touchdown with enough airspeed to keep that thing stuck.  Just a suggestion after my own struggles to improve the landing......

Dave

[Ken Culbertson]

I'd say extra stiff MAINS with softer tires and landing technique will help.  When you fly with Doug there ask him to watch how you are approaching.  He will tell you NOT to have the airplane "look up"- in other words set it down pretty quickly and not slow the ship down where the tail drops, nose lifts and it settles for a three pointer- almost a sure bet bounce.  Drive it all the way straight in to touchdown with enough airspeed to keep that thing stuck.  Just a suggestion after my own struggles to improve the landing......

Dave

I may try the softer tires.  The ones on there are not the softest, but close.  I land pretty much how you described and I don't normally bounce.  This plane just doesn't like being on the ground!  I described it better in my Endgame III trim post.  Bounce is probably not the right word.  It wants to take off again.  I may need a different approach to keeping it stuck with the canard.  I still haven't figured out where everything should be.  All I know is that the old "rules of thumb" don't apply anymore and there are not many I can turn to for help.  What I do know is that I need to figure it all out because the canard is here to stay on my fleet.  It is like the *wow* you get the first time you fly with an active timer.

Thanks for responding - Ken

[Ty Marcucci]

For a smooth landing, "grease it in"..  That's ho I did my Volunteer and it stayed put every time.

[John Carrodus]

perhaps a slightly larger tail wheel tucked right up as close as possible to the tail, may look tail down but may help u stick with that canard wing. She may need a flared out touchdown

[Steve Helmick]

Dave Brown wheels are the BOMB! I had a plane with DB wheels that landed great, but we were scheduled to fly on a grass circle at NW CL Regionals, so I put on some others that were a little bigger and wider...Great Planes or Hobbico. And, of course, we were switched to a paved circle! Those d__ned things would almost always bounce on any sort of pavement.

I think for pavement, you want hard, narrow tires without a tall sidewall. Keeping the wheels pointing correctly is also important. It might help to have the outboard leg a little shorter than the inboard leg, so that one wheel touches down before the other. Judges seldom can tell if one wheel touches first, so don't worry about that. Bouncing is going to get you a serious downgrade, but we don't ignore the glide, either. Make sure you keep the lines tight until it stops, because a "ground loop" will also get a downgrade.  Steve

[Ken Culbertson]

perhaps a slightly larger tail wheel tucked right up as close as possible to the tail, may look tail down but may help u stick with that canard wing. She may need a flared out touchdown

In spite of what everyone says there maybe a time for a small flare and this may be it.  Just for kicks I slow motioned a half a dozen practice flights.  We all are "over the Hill" in our group so landing on the other side of the circle is a No-No.  On the landings where I had to extend the glide so I could stop in front of the pits I had a slight flare and no bounce.  When I tried to "grease" it in I had the liftoff after landing issue.  What appeared to be happening was that I was letting it slow to stall speed about an inch from the ground so that it did not have the airspeed to become airborne again.  The Canard is a lifting surface if there is a positive AOA and what I may be doing is coming in too fast and letting the canard lift the nose as the tail settles.  Thank You!  If that actually is the case a stiffer tail wheel and a little down just after it touches down may be the answer.

Ken

[Ken Culbertson]

It might help to have the outboard leg a little shorter than the inboard leg, so that one wheel touches down before the other.  Steve

I learned that "trick" from Bob Gieseke but not for the same reason.  It also helped keep the wings parallel to the lines as it lifted off.   He told me that some judges watched the takeoff and docked points if one wheel left before the other.  By dropping the outboard wing a bit the plane lined up with the lines.  I guess on a landing the wings are closer to level without the line tension and the inboard wheel would contact first. However, with electric I actually become airborne well before it reaches full speed which negates Bob's method.  But I still do make the outboard 1/8" shorter than the inboard out of respect!  It must be nice to fly so well that these are things you worry about!

Ken