japanese back saws

[Bootlegger]

 Has any one tried one of these?  How did you like it?  As you can see I am looking and need some help/advice. Thanks

[Mark Gerber]

I used a Japanese flush-cutting saw to (carefully) remove the vertical stab and rudder from my Parrott P-40.  Flying found the plane as built from the plans had too much offset and was flying crabbed out of the circle.  I cut off the vertical stabilizer and rudder flush with the top and back of the fuselage then made a new assembly and glued it on.  After covering and refinishing it's hard to tell it's not the original tail.  Plane flies better now.  I wanted a thin blade with no spine and the Japanese saw answered the mail (but I have not had occasion to use it since).  A sharp Zona saw works good for most balsa cutting.

Mark Gerber

[Bootlegger]

 Guy's thanks for the replys, Ty where did you get the saw that you use,as I'd like to get one also, are they any good on plywood also, or just soft woods?  Again thanks ...

[Glenn Quarles]

Bootlegger, yes these saws are awesome! I use them all the time in both modeling and guitar building. They would great in hardwood. I think you can get them from Amazon as well as any of the woodworking stores like Rockler, etc.

Glenn

[Dan McEntee]

     There is an old trick where you can remove the black from the back bone piece of a Zona saw and grab it with a small vice grip and use it in the same manor. That is how you replace the blade in a Zona saw. If you look at the teeth on a new Zona saw blade, the teeth are angled toward the handle, so you can put the saw for a better start. That came about after some one sent in a hint to a magazine about reversing the blades for that reason, Zona then started putting them out already reversed. They are an excellent quality tool, and the bladed seem to last forever, so not many people are aware that you can get replacement blades, and that is how they are held in place. I cut the wing out of a profile model that way and was extremely pleased with the results!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Dave Hull]

Ty,

I don't think that is the conventional definition. A back saw is a hand saw with a thicker rib opposite the cutting edge to add stiffness. Commonly used in woodworking for joinery, like hand-cut dovetails. American and European saws traditionally cut on the push stroke, as you note. Japanese saws cut on the pull stroke. There is a flexible, backless saw for flush cutting of dowels, tails, etc. They have thin blades.

A Zona saw is just a miniature back saw.

McDivot

[frank mccune]

      Hello Dave, great post!

[dave siegler]

the little pull cut saw from harbor freight are cheap ($9) and work well.  great for trimming spars, foam wings and balsa blocks.  a little coarse for balsa but it works well. 

[Bootlegger]

 Glenn, where did you get your back saw, and which one did you get and does it work well for you?  I am in the market or one as can c, again thanks

[Glenn Quarles]

Bootlegger, I got mine at a wooden boat building school I went to a few years ago, but they have a large selection at Amazon (I’ll try to include a link). You can get them either with or without the backbone depending on weather you want to flush cut or not. I like the ones with the traditional long bamboo covered handle.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=japanese+saw&ref=is_s

Glenn

[David Hoover]

Lee Valley has them as well.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/saws

[Brett Buck]

There are a lot of different types of Japanese saws, most of the cut on the pull (which makes a lot more sense than pushing it) and they may have rigid backs or not, and they may or may not have set teeth, that is, the alternating bend in the teeth. The ones with no set can be used for cutting flush, and with care, even on finished wood, but they tend to jam in cuts of much depth. As with most things, there are really high-quality versions which can be extremely expensive, and really cheapies that would be sold at Home Depot, if they had such things in Japan.

   "Back saw" as noted has nothing to do with cutting on the pull, it has to do with the stiffener, intended to make straight cuts for joinery. A smaller version is called a dovetail saw, imaginatively named because it is suitable for cutting dovetails, with finer teeth, and even stiffer. Some dovetail saws cut on the pull, and some people flip the blades around on "push" versions.

     Brett

[Mike Danford]

For modeling, I think the zona saws are best.  Thin kerf, meaning less effort, can be altered easily to work on the pull or push depending on the job at hand and preference.

There’s a Japanese saw used for pruning bonsai that is especially useful in modeling.  It’s like a very well mannered and somewhat more petite sheetrock keyhole style saw.  You can poke in and trim away very discretely.

The flush cut is fantastic for modeling.  I’ve cut a 1/16 off the end of 2x6s reliably. 

As for western style back saws, veritas makes a fantastic one for about $75. 

Long gone in the mainstream world, they should all come in pairs.  If you’re cutting a tenon, use the rip version for the cheeks, the crosscut version for the shoulders...  Generally they’re carcass, tenon, dovetail and gent saws.  The miter saw fits in there somewhere and is always crosscut (it’s the geometry of how they’re sharpened). 

As with all handsaws, the real trick is converting the arcing motion of your arm into a linear motion REQUIRED by the saw.  The next trick is to buy one that is sharpened properly.  Or learn to sharpen it... you tube and good cheaters are your friend!

Tools

[John Leidle]

 Back in the day working in the shipyard the Japanese back saw was double bladed, a saw cutting blade top & bottom complete with a broomstick for a handle. Only the pot smokers had these things. The rest of us has an official Back Saw as described by Brett. Mine was ( is) a Stanley Warranted Superior . Most guys carried a lighter weight Disston.
       John L.

[Robert Whitley]

I would suggest searching Lee Valley Tools online catalogue for a fairly extensive listing and description of “pull type saws”.

I have several and the ones that I have found most useful for detail work are the flexible blade types.
These do very nice flush cuts since you can purchase them with the kerf offset one sided which lets you do very close flush cuts.

They are also available with back spines for very precise cross and angled cuts.

Also they can be purchased for fine crosscuts or coarser rip cuts as required.

Additionally I have found the oscillating power saw even more useful for separating   airframe components  or slotting hinges.

Lots of variety and options available.