FAA to make names and addresses of hobbyist publicly avilalble

[Brad B]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2015/12/18/faa-finally-admits-names-and-home-addresses-in-drone-registry-will-be-publicly-available/
  

I think that this should give everyone who was considering registering with the FAA another reason not to immediately do it.  

The FUNDAMENTAL differences are that I CHOOSE to join the AMA and follow their regulations of adding my name and address to my aircraft.  Someone has to find my aircraft to get my information.  The info is not there for everyone to see with the click of a mouse.  I am NOT required by civil or criminal penalty to register with the AMA.

Are they really expecting us to believe the FAA will protect our information?  

[Randy Cuberly]

Reminds me of Reagans favorite saying to scare the H...out of anyone paying attention...

"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you!"

 

Randy Cuberly

[david beazley]

And I am sure that no one in the anti gun lobby is paying any attention to this at all...

[Motorman]

I hate to tell you this but your info and mine are already publicly available along with most everyone else. Being tagged a hobbyist is not the worst thing in the world. 


MM

[BillLee]

I hate to tell you this but your info and mine are already publicly available along with most everyone else. Being tagged a hobbyist is not the worst thing in the world. 


MM

Kinda like being pecked to death by a duck! 

[dave siegler]

Easy, the FAA is applying the same standard as full scale aircraft. 

know the N number, look up the owner.   It is a great deterrent to bad behavior and buzz jobs.

for full scale this is a GOOD thing.

You know the FAA might use the data for GOOD reasons.  Catch some guy that operates in an unsafe way and you can track him down, or return a fly away.

You guys are so busy attaching non related items like gun control and fascism to registering a toy? don't you have models to build?

The tinfoil hat production is at a all time high. 

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

[jim gevay]

Easy, the FAA is applying the same standard as full scale aircraft. 

know the N number, look up the owner.   It is a great deterrent to bad behavior and buzz jobs.

for full scale this is a GOOD thing.

You know the FAA might use the data for GOOD reasons.  Catch some guy that operates in an unsafe way and you can track him down, or return a fly away.

You guys are so busy attaching non related items like gun control and fascism to registering a toy? don't you have models to build?

The tinfoil hat production is at a all time high. 

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

X2

[Brad B]

I post a link and voice my concerns.  It doesnt happen to agree with YOUR point of view and I am a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy thoerist.  REALLY...  

Pathetic....

[dave siegler]

<sigh> I never said you wear a tinfoil hat.  Read it carefully 

you don't get it.  The world isn't out to get you.  Mostly they don't care at all. 

There may be very GOOD reasons to share this data, and all you can see the negative.

Personally if a flying device is over my property found on my property, falls on my property, I would want to know who put it there and why.

I may want to give it back.  I may want to see the pictures it took.  I may want to take legal action. 

Its a great deterrent, it keeps people in line. 

Getting data on people is real easy now.  There are much better ways than drone registration to mine data on you. 

And yes if you are afraid of drone registration, then you should never purchase anything on credit, never register a car, go on line or get a passport, pay a cable bill, never use Amazon.

Do you know that that the DOT shares auto registration with lots of groups?  Tow operators, insurance companies, your employer? .....  and you are worried about the FAA?  ha ha 

Personally I am more worried about Target and Amazon than the FAA. 

No your fears about the FAA are real but tiny compared to the risk of even posting on this forum.
 

 

[RC Storick]

This is the issue. The older guys will know what I am talking about. There was a time when you had Privacy. Now everyone knows what color toilet paper you own in your bathroom. There is absolutely no need with the click of a mouse to know where everyone lives. That's what a warrant is for. The US Constitution use to mean something.

[Steve Helmick]

"There may be very GOOD reasons to share this data, and all you can see the negative.

Personally if a flying device is over my property found on my property, falls on my property, I would want to know who put it there and why.

I may want to give it back.  I may want to see the pictures it took.  I may want to take legal action. 

Its a great deterrent, it keeps people in line."

If a device is flying over your property (you won't be able to read the 1/2" tall numbers anyway), is found on your property, falls on your property, you call the FAA and if they are doing their job (doubtful they'd be interested), they would do some research of their data and come to your place and pick up the remains. Hopefully, they'd take the R/C plane, chopper or quadrotor owner into custody and persecute them.

There's no reason for our names and addresses to be made public knowledge. Good reason for a lawsuit, in fact. How much mail do you get from Dr.'s offices and Healthcare Insurance companies explaining that all that stuff about your privacy? That's what I should be able to expect of the FAA.  Steve

[Brad B]

I agree 100%

You cant make everything safe by adding rules. We already know that. Rules just put more burden on the people who follow them and have no bearing on those who chose not too.

As far as I am concerned.... privacy and liberty go hand in hand.  If one is taken away the other one goes away too.   I dont believe I should lose any more of my privacy for the FAAs false notion of security.

Just because all that data mining happens does NOT mean that I like it or that they should be doing it.  It may not bother some people but I PERSONALLY dont like it at all.

[john e. holliday]

You really think the bad guys and trouble makers are going to register their toys?

[Bob Heywood]

This is the issue. The older guys will know what I am talking about. There was a time when you had Privacy. Now everyone knows what color toilet paper you own in your bathroom. There is absolutely no need with the click of a mouse to know where everyone lives. That's what a warrant is for. The US Constitution use to mean something.

Do a Google search for your own name...

[JoeJust]

Do a Google search for your own name...
[/
quote]
I did, and I don't exist.  A bit scary, and a bunch funny.
Joe

[dave siegler]

Well a long time a go, someone set the standard that civilian Aircraft registration numbers were public.  Probably after the first pilot buzzed his girlfriends house. 

You or I can't change that. 

Before the internet, you had to ask the FAA to look up and N number, so that created a barrier to entry.

Now its easy to do.

The FAA decided that the things we do are AIRCRAFT, with a registration number, and aircraft registrations are public.


HISTORY
When powered parachutes and ultra lights came into favor.  Groups like EAA ( and their membership!) got out in front of it, added to the community based system of controls.

there were a lot of accidents, deaths and big problems.  EAA really pressured operators and manufactures to behave or be regulated.

Initially the members were not happy. I remember a lot of EAA's saying that powered hang glider would ruin home building and experimental aircraft.  
Members ( warbird guys, acro guys, home built guys) wanted them out of EAA but EAA put the screws to chapters and all to bring the ultralight guys on board.  
EAA lobbied FAA, and manufactures to fix this problem, add rules that make sense.
And they did it they provided leadership to solve the problem.    

Ultra lights do not need registration, training or a medical.  Today there is less governmental scrutiny on a man carrying ultra light than a RC airplane.


Today
The AMA tried to do a very similar thing here.  They failed at the leadership level, we failed as well, the AMA could not put the screws to its membership to accept the drone guys.

So if you are upset about the current situation look in the mirror.  

Rather than bring them ( the quad guys) along, we all bitched and didn't lead, didn't provide a solution.  They went off on their own and went nuts,  Now we have this crap fest.

Imagine if the AMA has 10000 instructors, tech advisers and mentors?  Not 180000 angry old men?  We could have added a new branch, brought in new members to this hobby and staved off regulation.  

I am not happy about this either, but early on I realized that these are forces beyond my control, and complaining isn't going to stop it.  Change happens. 

Oh at the end of the day, I will bet this will be a pain in the ass but not the end of the world as predicted.  

[BillP]

I should be the one who decides whether my info is made public...not the FAA for flying model airplanes. I don't care to help my personal info go public anymore than it already does. You have more chance of getting struck by lightning, auto accident, falling off a ladder or getting stabbed with a knife than having a drone crash on your property. If a drone does crash into your yard contact the FAA and keep to your own business. You don't need registration and personal info to do that.

Adding here to comment on the last post.

Hey Dave, since you are ok with the FAA posting your info because it can be found in other places, how about posting it here so we all will have it in case one of your planes crash in our yard.

Interesting statements about the EAA but not exactly what I experienced.  In 1990 I started flying an ultralight (no N number but was a licensed private pilot and still am) and joined the local EAA chapter...never heard anyone say powered chutes or ultralights were going to be the "end". Never heard a negative on them ruining aviation but only positives on basic guidelines (such as a UL pattern) to fly them safely. Attended many Sun N Fun meets at Lakeland and never heard a peep there either. I also owned an N numbered aircraft and joined a different EAA chapter due to a move.  Was an EAA member for years and years. Yes they campaign for safety but model aircraft are a totally different deal than full scale planes that carry passengers and fly in controlled airspace.  This drone thing came up so fast nobody, including the AMA, had time to really organize properly either. Putting blame on modelers is ridiculous.


 

[Brett Buck]

Today
The AMA tried to do a very similar thing here.  They failed at the leadership level, we failed as well, the AMA could not put the screws to its membership to accept the drone guys.

So if you are upset about the current situation look in the mirror.  

Rather than bring them ( the quad guys) along, we all bitched and didn't lead, didn't provide a solution.  They went off on their own and went nuts,  Now we have this crap fest.

Imagine if the AMA has 10000 instructors, tech advisers and mentors?  Not 180000 angry old men?  We could have added a new branch, brought in new members to this hobby and staved off regulation.  

    "Look in the mirror"? Really? What is it you think could have been done? We are complaining about drones - but the AMA embraced them from the very first. They couldn't have embraced the any more than they did. I don't buy your  premise at all but even if I did, how could the AMA have been any more involved? They ignored any contrary input and followed your plan, the idea being that they would position themselves as the "community-based organization" that did the self-policing. That failed, for pretty predictable reasons, but they certainly did follow your template.

    The template was/is wrong and could never have worked. Casual toy buyers have *never* cared one whit about the AMA, and never will. You go buy a $50 helicopter at Fry's, and you want to fly it in the park or at a picnic. You have no idea AT ALL that the AMA exists or what it is for. Suppose someone finds out about the AMA somehow. You are then going to turn around and sign up for the AMA for $57 and find you cannot fly it over people without breaking the (almost completely ignored) safety code? For "insurance" that only kicks in after your have exhausted all your other resources?  Suppose Jr cries for one at Toy R Us, you spend the time to research everything?  This is what you have to overcome.

       The solution that *could* have worked is to form a clear delineation between the casual fliers (of drones, ARFs, everything) and the serious types. Let the FAA regulate away, but now you can legitimately draw a distinction between the morass of drone idiots, and serious model fliers. Then ask for dispensation on the basis of exhibited responsible behavior to date. That's how the NAR came to be - NAR fliers were legitimate and building and flying with some well-thought-out safety considerations, and the rest were stuffing match heads into CO2 cartridges basement bomber types. It worked because the *manufacturers* went along with it- and thus insuring safe markets for themselves.

   The problem with this solution is that this ship sailed in the late 70's - when RC became a commodity item, a toy you bought at a store and flew for fun on a weekend with no more care than you would apply to playing "hungry hungry hippos". The AMA also embraced and built itself around that "clientele" with no more success than they included park flier or drone idiots - the vast majority of RC sport pilots aren't AMA members, either. Even many AMA members have been operating for years with NO sense of responsibility and no consequences for their irresponsible actions. Because if the AMA cracked down, they would lose the casual fliers immediately. So they ended up representing the irresponsible as well as the responsible.

   Same with the manufacturers - they are about to put themselves out of business when the FAA dings a few people for $25000 for flying juniors Christmas present in the park.

   Millions of drone will soon be in the hands of every third kid in America, causing, as the FAA predicts, all sort of "incidents". It was ALWAYS, repeat, ALWAYS, going to lead to regulation. If you cannot draw a clear distinction between AMA members and the general mass of drone fliers, you/they/we have NO hope of getting a special carve-out for demonstrated responsible behavior.

   THAT is what we are upset about, it has been obvious to many of us for many years, and it is developing along predictable lines.

      Brett

    

    

[FLOYD CARTER]

I don't care if the FAA "shares" my registration data.  The worst thing they can do with it is send me more drone advertisments.  I already get that from Tower Hobbies.  I just ignore it.

The Fed isn't going to march up my driveway to "take away" my planes (or my guns, either). 

Why is everyone so paranoid?

Floyd

[BillP]

I don't care if the FAA "shares" my registration data.  The worst thing they can do with it is send me more drone advertisments.  I already get that from Tower Hobbies.  I just ignore it.

The Fed isn't going to march up my driveway to "take away" my planes (or my guns, either). 

Why is everyone so paranoid?

Floyd

I'm not concerned with the feds coming...it's the identity theft that bothers me. Why help the criminals?  Its obvious you have never had ID theft..I have (someone hacked my ebay pw and bought a ton of stuff) and so has my daughter. Just like in the movies where another person takes over your identity and spends the next year crossing the USA committing felony crimes.  The Feds arrested my daughter and later dismissed the charges because she was able to verify being in a different state at time of crime (bank robbery). The person who had her identity procured new credit cards, opened new bogus bank accounts, ordered checks and passed them without funds, dressed and made her hair same as my daughter. Then a year later robbed the bank and was on their camera. Its bad news when it happens to you.

[Fredvon4]

Bill I think by now most of us can tell of a personal or family /friend case of stolen identity.... I went through hell when a check book was stolen out of a hotel room and now ONLY do Banking with a debit card or on line

Hell just his year several of the Government agencies I worked for DOD ARMY, or get service from, Veterans Administration, notified me of data breaches and what I needed to do to protect myself and offered free identity protection fro the next year

Funny the commercial entities I do business with never notified of a data breach or offered free identity protection... I had to learn about it from the news

I hate this government over reach mostly because it has no impact to solve the potential problem

BUT I do not fear it in the least----from a personal identity point of view....that cat has been out of the bag for decades now with my first finger printing as I was drafted by the Army

You sir may search my full name right now on hundreds of data bases and amass enough data to give me much grief if you were so inclined

Frederick Carl von Gortler IV, born Aberdeen Proving Grounds US Army Hospital July 27 1955, Mothers Maiden Name Patricia Fitzgerald

Many have tried, Life Lock has stopped all of them....wink

If you do use all the info above you will only be able to get the credit reporting agencies to tell you I have a 812 score and I owe way more than I should

In the personal Army files of my career, such as orders for promotion, or permanent change of station, or award of a new MOS, are hundreds of my fellow soldiers, their entire names, and Social Security numbers ..... I can steal any of their identities any time I desire. Finding their mother maiden name is too easy....

[Frank Imbriaco]

In my neck of the woods, there are  quite a few folks who fly hot air balloons  ; some for sport, others for hire. Incidents leading to altercations between property owners and pilots, some not pleasant , appear in the paper now and then. This is New Jersey and a lot people, beyond our Governor and Tony Soprano,  have attitudes. Got real  heated with the hot air balloon types vs. residents awhile back , so  now it has  become standard practice for balloon pilots to carry a bottle of champagne to use as a gift for landing in someone's  back yard or field.
Wonder how  the multi-rotor types will carry it...(lol).
If a multi-rotor comes down  on someone's property in my neck of the woods , chances are  good that I may get fingered .  I'm also active in R/C. I don't know of any other R/C pilots in my town( after 25 years of radio flight,  I would have discovered them by now ) and there are a total of maybe  three or four  R/C ers in neighboring towns.
Doubt I'll  be answering my door if I see someone with a dead drone in hand .All that person would need is to do a google search and discover my name on some stupid FAA list. Worst yet, what if they have a cop in tow who issues me a warrant to search my house ?

This policy has me worried the most and  what I'm presenting isn't fear mongering. Again, this is Jersey.

[dave siegler]

I should be the one who decides whether my info is made public...not the FAA for flying model airplanes. I don't care to help my personal info go public anymore than it already does. You have more chance of getting struck by lightning, auto accident, falling off a ladder or getting stabbed with a knife than having a drone crash on your property. If a drone does crash into your yard contact the FAA and keep to your own business. You don't need registration and personal info to do that.

\

Hey Dave, since you are ok with the FAA posting your info because it can be found in other places, how about posting it here so we all will have it in case one of your planes crash in our yard.

Interesting statements about the EAA but not exactly what I experienced.  In 1990 I started flying an ultralight (no N number but was a licensed private pilot and still am) and joined the local EAA chapter...never heard anyone say powered chutes or ultralights were going to be the "end". Never heard a negative on them ruining aviation but only positives on basic guidelines (such as a UL pattern) to fly them safely. Attended many Sun N Fun meets at Lakeland and never heard a peep there either. I also owned an N numbered aircraft and joined a different EAA chapter due to a move.  Was an EAA member for years and years. Yes they campaign for safety but model aircraft are a totally different deal than full scale planes that carry passengers and fly in controlled airspace.  This drone thing came up so fast nobody, including the AMA, had time to really organize properly either. Putting blame on modelers is ridiculous.


 

I never said I was OK with FAA posting my contact information,  I just realize it is part of the dance now.  That being said they can search the registration number and find the person not the other way around.

There was allot of ultralight activity in my area in the boom time (1980's) .  And yes the EAA chapter i hung out with ( I was a kid) was really wound up about it.  As were some at HQ in Oshkosh, ask John Moody he wasn't welcomed right away.  

The quad "thing" has been on model aviation for more than 5 years, The rtf park flier even longer, this problem did not happen over night.
  
But social media really accelerated the decision process.

Modelers as a group are very resistant to change, and not at all open to new ideas or accepting others that have differing views.  If you don't see that I can't help you. Any yes we are to blame for that.

Imagine a partnership where drone companies, and hobby shops and all that INSISTED in a check out by a qualified AMA inspector before flight, not required but strongly insisted.  AMA would have had the ability to influence some ( but not all) of the bad actors, and show the FAA we have the ability to self regulate.  But we did not.  We dug in our heals, internally fought, distanced ourselves from the quad guys, and lost.  

Without any leadership, the quad companies are now regulating their own users their own methods of subscription based services (geo fencing) and it is going to be a real mess. Filing some kind of flight plan may be next.

Why can't AMA broker something like part 103 like the EAA did? Because we are so busy fighting internally.



see how the EAA is doing it  Free, strongly suggested, supporting.  We should learn from their experience.

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/ultralights-and-ultralight-aircraft/getting-started-in-ultralight-flying/ultralight-registration

[Howard Rush]

And yes if you are afraid of drone registration, then you should never purchase anything on credit, never register a car, go on line or get a passport, pay a cable bill, never use Amazon.

Once in private email correspondence about something expensive, I wrote, "As the monkey said when he urinated on the cash register, 'This could run into money'".  The next time I accessed Amazon, they tried to sell me a cash register.

[Brett Buck]

Why can't AMA broker something like part 103 like the EAA did? Because we are so busy fighting internally.

  Who is fighting internally and how does that manifest itself? As far as I can tell, the AMA is 100% united in their (failing) plan, and doubled down on it recently with Bill "Drones are the future" Brown comments. We don't like it very much but no in the AMA cares about that at all, and is doing nothing to alter their course.

  Brett

[Fredvon4]

two belly laughs in one day

Howard you are on a roll....

Thanks

[Brad B]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2015/12/21/attention-model-aircraft-flyers-faa-issues-misleading-registration-guidance-to-law-enforcement/

A little more reading if you are interested.  

FAA........  Mislead much?  

[BillP]

I never said I was OK with FAA posting my contact information,  I just realize it is part of the dance now.  That being said they can search the registration number and find the person not the other way around.

There was allot of ultralight activity in my area in the boom time (1980's) .  And yes the EAA chapter i hung out with ( I was a kid) was really wound up about it.  As were some at HQ in Oshkosh, ask John Moody he wasn't welcomed right away.  

The quad "thing" has been on model aviation for more than 5 years, The rtf park flier even longer, this problem did not happen over night.
  
But social media really accelerated the decision process.

Modelers as a group are very resistant to change, and not at all open to new ideas or accepting others that have differing views.  If you don't see that I can't help you. Any yes we are to blame for that.

Imagine a partnership where drone companies, and hobby shops and all that INSISTED in a check out by a qualified AMA inspector before flight, not required but strongly insisted.  AMA would have had the ability to influence some ( but not all) of the bad actors, and show the FAA we have the ability to self regulate.  But we did not.  We dug in our heals, internally fought, distanced ourselves from the quad guys, and lost.  

Without any leadership, the quad companies are now regulating their own users their own methods of subscription based services (geo fencing) and it is going to be a real mess. Filing some kind of flight plan may be next.

Why can't AMA broker something like part 103 like the EAA did? Because we are so busy fighting internally.



see how the EAA is doing it  Free, strongly suggested, supporting.  We should learn from their experience.

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/ultralights-and-ultralight-aircraft/getting-started-in-ultralight-flying/ultralight-registration

If you have a name you don't need the N number to search a licensed pilot and the plane that is registered to him...you need the right key words and do not rely only on the FAA web site. Regardless, full scale airplanes don't land in someone's yard and the FAA doesn't have homeowners sticking there nose into a crash.

Forget beefing that modelers are resistant to change and putting blame on them. The only thing I would agree about is most flyers are against stupid and burdensome regs that were written with biased data by knee jerk govt bureaucrats.  It sounds like you expected everyone to know drones were going to be a problem the first day they were flying...and to start legislation against them 5 yrs ago. I guess IF modelers really were so resistant to change they WOULD have tried to shut drones down back then.  It appears to me, modelers and AMA members (me from 1993) thought the AMA was going to keep us out of the registration loop. As it stands they were not successful and are posting they are for registration.  My opinion is they are trying to be joined at the hip with the FAA to become the "modelers FAA".  Someone on a forum posted that the FAA should make modelers join the AMA. That is scary and it would be challenged by the very industry that put AMA in existence.  Anyway, I didn't ask for "help" from you so you must have me confused with someone else who did. 

[dave siegler]

Forget beefing that modelers are resistant to change and putting blame on them. The only thing I would agree about is most flyers are against stupid and burdensome regs that were written with biased data by knee jerk govt bureaucrats.  It sounds like you expected everyone to know drones were going to be a problem the first day they were flying...and to start legislation against them 5 yrs ago. I guess IF modelers really were so resistant to change they WOULD have tried to shut drones down back then.  It appears to me, modelers and AMA members (me from 1993) thought the AMA was going to keep us out of the registration loop. As it stands they were not successful and are posting they are for registration.  My opinion is they are trying to be joined at the hip with the FAA to become the "modelers FAA".  Someone on a forum posted that the FAA should make modelers join the AMA. That is scary and it would be challenged by the very industry that put AMA in existence.  Anyway, I didn't ask for "help" from you so you must have me confused with someone else who did. 

First of all the any organization the size of the AMA has a forecasting process to make sure that they are not caught behind trends.  They bring in hobby consultants, there would be industry briefings, universities showing this stuff for years.  If the leaders at AMA don't do that then they are incompetent. The first version of Audopilot came out in 2009.  Only way you would not know about drones is if you lived in a cave.  But then most people dont read Model Aviation, Model Airplane news Fly RC, MAKE, and a lot of electronics hobby publications , they just bitch that no one builds anymore.  Even though there are more kids involved in robotics than ever involved in balsa airplanes.  

Second Shut down drones?  Realy really?  You can't be serious.  Stop the internet while you are at it.  Or genetically engineered food.  You can't stop the technology.  many have tried all have failed. Technology is usually disruptive, and that scares people.  

Sign them all up there is enough sky of all of us.  Form separate divisions for FF, RC, Heli, C/L and drones, lower our dues from the gush of new members and let each discipline run itself by model aviators that do that thing.  AMA would have to give up power to the members to make it work.  

Help? help yourself, I have some primer set up, and need to sand it.  I have wasted too much time on something that you think you can control but cant.    

Oh I did reg.  I didn't explode.

[BillP]

First of all the any organization the size of the AMA has a forecasting process to make sure that they are not caught behind trends.  They bring in hobby consultants, there would be industry briefings, universities showing this stuff for years.  If the leaders at AMA don't do that then they are incompetent. The first version of Audopilot came out in 2009.  Only way you would not know about drones is if you lived in a cave.  But then most people dont read Model Aviation, Model Airplane news Fly RC, MAKE, and a lot of electronics hobby publications , they just bitch that no one builds anymore.  Even though there are more kids involved in robotics than ever involved in balsa airplanes.  

Second Shut down drones?  Realy really?  You can't be serious.  Stop the internet while you are at it.  Or genetically engineered food.  You can't stop the technology.  many have tried all have failed. Technology is usually disruptive, and that scares people.  

Sign them all up there is enough sky of all of us.  Form separate divisions for FF, RC, Heli, C/L and drones, lower our dues from the gush of new members and let each discipline run itself by model aviators that do that thing.  AMA would have to give up power to the members to make it work.  

Help? help yourself, I have some primer set up, and need to sand it.  I have wasted too much time on something that you think you can control but cant.    

Oh I did reg.  I didn't explode.

You have a comprehension (or presumption?) issue if reading my posts tells you I want to "control" anything or asked for your "help".  I comprehend that you are for registration "control" and I am not (mostly due to it being stupid for CL and its another door for ID theft to enter). You show an abundant amount of "conspiracy theory" to believe registering is necessary to protect you from the evil model flyers. But I do lock my doors and take the keys out of my car as a preventative measure for theft. I suppose you leave them unlocked because the govt told you their regs and laws protect you. How many letters/numbers are in your new model registration?

   

[Target]

Brett-

I agree 100% with you post #17 above. Not going to quote to save Sparky some bandwidth.
I predicted years ago that the FPV pilots would create a problem for us (actually me more than you, since I like to fly RC sailplanes, and it looks like the FAA is now looking to impose/enforce a 400' max AGL law/regulation), and I have always maintained that the only solution was to make the party that is responsible for the problems BE responsible.

This "one size fits all" regulation is definitely posed to fail badly. The folks causing the trouble will keep doing what they have been. Hell, they are SO PROUD of doing what they do, they post evidence on You Tube! Its like some form of crack or something, they are addicted....

The pilots that fly responsibly will and would have, continued to do so without being "governed" by the FAA.

It is just a poorly thought out response to a problem that was always inevitable from the start. It's disappointing the FAA is wasting their time and energy on this as a solution. I really think they could have done better. I even think my suggestion was better-
Force all sales of only aircraft with cameras, or the camera gear itself, to come with registrations. That leaves the sport "Line of Sight" modeler out of this, and with the AMA, where they should be.
Of course, the AMA should have stayed out of the FPV business.

R,
Chris

[dave siegler]

You have a comprehension (or presumption?) issue if reading my posts tells you I want to "control" anything or asked for your "help".  I comprehend that you are for registration "control" and I am not (mostly due to it being stupid for CL and its another door for ID theft to enter). You show an abundant amount of "conspiracy theory" to believe registering is necessary to protect you from the evil model flyers. But I do lock my doors and take the keys out of my car as a preventative measure for theft. I suppose you leave them unlocked because the govt told you their regs and laws protect you. How many letters/numbers are in your new model registration?

   

No,  all the complaining on this issue is over stuff that is out of the control of the person writing.  Sorry  I did not mean use 'help'  that was not the intent.

I see all the guys, going to pieces over something that is way beyond any thing they can control.  People saying they were going to quit over this.   Over this?  Change is disruptive and  scary and unstoppable.  

People have spoken with their wallets and they like quad copters, the electronics, the video feeds.  They don't like Fox engines and ringmasters, or control line.  

Like it or not, quads are here, the AMA saw that, but could not convince us. And now the FAA had a problem to solve and the AMA was not helping.  

I don't like this registration stuff, but due to all the media pressure and the lack of action from the AMA the FAA was forced into action.  

IMHO The best way to kill this law is rigid compliance.  Call the tower every time you fly, even if you don't need to.  Bury them with requests.  Make them wish they never put this in place.      

My UAS number is in my signature now.  I will print some mailing labels for my RC airplanes, add it to my name cell number AMA number.

 UAS number FA39HY9ML7  

[BillP]

Bill I think by now most of us can tell of a personal or family /friend case of stolen identity.... I went through hell when a check book was stolen out of a hotel room and now ONLY do Banking with a debit card or on line

Hell just his year several of the Government agencies I worked for DOD ARMY, or get service from, Veterans Administration, notified me of data breaches and what I needed to do to protect myself and offered free identity protection fro the next year

Funny the commercial entities I do business with never notified of a data breach or offered free identity protection... I had to learn about it from the news

I hate this government over reach mostly because it has no impact to solve the potential problem

BUT I do not fear it in the least----from a personal identity point of view....that cat has been out of the bag for decades now with my first finger printing as I was drafted by the Army

You sir may search my full name right now on hundreds of data bases and amass enough data to give me much grief if you were so inclined

Frederick Carl von Gortler IV, born Aberdeen Proving Grounds US Army Hospital July 27 1955, Mothers Maiden Name Patricia Fitzgerald

Many have tried, Life Lock has stopped all of them....wink

If you do use all the info above you will only be able to get the credit reporting agencies to tell you I have a 812 score and I owe way more than I should

In the personal Army files of my career, such as orders for promotion, or permanent change of station, or award of a new MOS, are hundreds of my fellow soldiers, their entire names, and Social Security numbers ..... I can steal any of their identities any time I desire. Finding their mother maiden name is too easy....

I respect your position but what you're telling me is nobody has tried to empty your bank account or used a credit card without permission.  Reporting stuff about credit is after the fact and doesn't keep me from walking into your bank and withdrawing cash with your acct number  hacked or stolen moments before. I can open a bank acct with all that info, order checks and write a ton of bad checks to different stores before you know it.  Are you aware that Lifelock agreed to a $100 million settlement last Thursday with the FTC for defrauding customers and not protecting them as advertised?  $68 million is for refunds to customers. I wouldn't have as much problem with the FAA registration if a credit card wasn't needed.

As I posted about my daughter already...her identity was stolen and used for one year before she found out about it..the thief even knew her security word when the bank teller asked for it to withdraw $3600 out of a checking account...in a bank 600 miles away. The teller said she was suspicious of the individual but gave the thief the money because she knew the security word.  The thief tried withdrawing another $3600 on the same account using a bogus 3600 deposit with an immediate 3600 withdrawal at another bank the same day. She tried to trick the bank and ended up robbing it when denied the cash. That was 4 yrs ago and the thief has never been caught and no other activity that we have been made aware of. This is drifting too much so I'm stopping.

[dave siegler]

 Who is fighting internally and how does that manifest itself? As far as I can tell, the AMA is 100% united in their (failing) plan, and doubled down on it recently with Bill "Drones are the future" Brown comments. We don't like it very much but no in the AMA cares about that at all, and is doing nothing to alter their course.

  Brett

Leaderships set a direction but the members are still infighting.  Its the heli guys then the jet guys the large scale aerobatics guys then its the darn park fliers.  The clubs here are closed, members must be approved by the other members. 

I don't think all this helps get membership to assist and volunteer. We talk about the ama leadership as if its another group, not some guy helping out making the situation better.
Some call (in this forum) the AMA leadership people who "sold out to the cooperate greed" 

Most treat the AMA as a purchased service, a necessary evil.  Members are just members , not a part of the organization.

EAA is a lot different.  HQ asks and people show up, and not just pilots.  A lot of expensive free consulting time.  Look who does all the work at Oshkosh, sun and fun and other events?  The EAA rewards its volunteers,  What doses the AMA do?  Would you show up a the Nats  a week early to cut grass or build bathrooms?  For events you are not in? Didn't think so.     

Oh don't get me wrong the EAA has its issues, but that group can make thing happen in ways the AMA never could

If the EAA had a model aircraft division I would drop my AMA membership in 3 seconds.

[Fredvon4]

Like I said Bill

we all are at risk and can tell similar stories

Every thing about me in my post above is easily found with a Google search and I have absolutely no way of getting it all removed ( I have tried)

Wife and I use strong security and change pins and passwords often

We only bank with USAA now and they stop a lot of fraud. In fact they caught a scheme almost exactly like you describe on my wife's account

I have Life lock and They have stopped , (by notifying me) some butt holes getting my hard earned capitol...not a perfect solution but in my case they have proved worth the cost

BUT the discussion was if we should fear the FAA/Government now also having a few more bits of our information that could be released on purpose (name and address) or inadvertently by being hacked  (credit card and PII)

I bought about $2500 of Christmas presents this year, 90% on line and gave my CC number to all sorts of companies

Giving the FAA our CC number does not put us at any greater risk than we already have IMO

[Steve Helmick]

Do they have an alternative, for folks that might not have a computer or a credit/debit card? I wouldn't want to make it easy on them. IF I absolutely had to register, I'd want to send it in a letter direct to the head FAA cheese in DC...a box of pennies.    Steve

[Dave_Trible]

Steve I think there was an alternative written form- but you'd have to order it on line.  Since you are on here I doubt that's a problem.  They are requiring the $5 now but will refund it after the 30 day sign up period to those who got their certificate in the starting month.  I think it's 'earnest money' to say you are serious about being on the good-guy list.  You have to certify to a safety code ( which might have been AMA's major contribution here since it's written in similar language).

Dave

Thought I'd add; you had to give Sparky more info to sign up on this website than you have to give the FAA.  And it's easier to access here I'm sure.

[RC Storick]

Thought I'd add; you had to give Sparky more info to sign up on this website than you have to give the FAA.  And it's easier to access here I'm sure.

Humm I don't ask for a address, phone number or credit card number so I would say they ask for more info than Stunt Hangar.

[Dave_Trible]

My bad Robert.  Guess I was thinking about credit card info for donations too maybe.  Anyway my point was that we typically give out more info all the time for many things.  Nothing is given to the FAA that isn't already out there.  Much of it is in the phone book.  Of course we all want to be careful with our info.  In this case the fear is unfounded.  I HAVE had some experience with CC fraud- at gas stations while traveling.  Never yet on line and I do almost all my stuff on line these days.  If it's some other fear about big brother-  they can find you if they want you anytime, anyplace.  If you aren't a criminal or tax evader I doubt there is much to fear.  They wouldn't have time or interest in me.

Dave