Author Topic: FAA postings (Read 1950 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** January 12, 2020, 01:31:48 PM »

I have left a comment on the FAA site and am urging everyone to do the same, https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=FAA-2019-1100-0001

"I fly control line models (the kid in the park with an airplane on a string). The way this is worded all model aircraft fall into this DRONE rule, The kid flying a kite in a schoolyard will be included with this proposal. Where is the DATA on safety? The AMA has a long history (Rule 322) Which was not supposed to be infringed upon.

Our airplanes along with free-flight models have no radio and our airplanes are at 70 feet connected with the pilot. Please rethink the wording and exclude us from your burdensome rule.

The implementation of these rules will kill the industry (where this technology came from) along with putting millions of people out of work."

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2020, 03:17:29 PM »

Robert I put a comment on. Yours was very good so I basically said the same thing.

Mike

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2020, 05:00:49 PM »

Robert;

Did pretty much the same thing as you said and added about the big AZZ yearly KITE FESTIVAL held on the Mall there in DC.

Do THEY have to register theirs as well. And to be allowed to fly in CONTROLLED air space to boot IN the Nations Capitol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carl

john e. holliday · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2020, 06:11:39 PM »

I posted a comment as if it will do any good.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2020, 06:36:34 PM »

Robert, thanks for the information. I submitted a comment.

Best, DennisT

wwwarbird · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2020, 09:57:52 PM »

No need to worry, I'm confident the AMA will step in and get it all straightened out.

katana · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2020, 01:43:24 AM »

At least you could have looked 'passionate' rather than 'desperate' - "put millions out of work' ! ! ! Really ? !!! And when do free flight models stay below 70' ? They are dumb rules - not dumb people!

RC Storick · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2020, 03:59:53 AM »

Quote from: katana on January 13, 2020, 01:43:24 AM

At least you could have looked 'passionate' rather than 'desperate' - "put millions out of work' ! ! ! Really ? !!! And when do free flight models stay below 70' ? They are dumb rules - not dumb people!

RC goes away? Let's see who loses their jobs. No need for engines no need wheels, spinners, etc. The shockwave will be felt way down the line.

Tom Vieira · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2020, 05:39:24 AM »

Sparky,

believe it or not, Kites do have their own section in FAA rules. Along with Balloons, rockets, fireworks, and a mess of other things.... So, we are not classified as a kite, nor are kites classified as a drone.

But, yes, we are closer to a powered kite than a drone.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:36:35 AM »

As with every FCC or FAA proposal of rule making I too commented

Your/our, next task, dear gents, is to go start READING the comments, noting who the parties are....then you will learn things....Then you can tell AMA...get off ass and insist Congress take THEIR (non partisan BTW) CARVE OUT-- THEY WROTE ---SERIOUSLY! and oversight the DOT/FAA to comply......

Tom Vieira · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:45:04 AM »

and we are all ignoring a potential upside here...

only if we can get a line item exemption for CL....

it's possible we could experience a rebirth of sorts. suddenly, due to legislation, RC becomes astoundingly expensive due to transponders and the such, we may be able to pull some of them over our way.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:49:21 AM »

Quote from: T.J. Vieira on January 13, 2020, 09:45:04 AM

and we are all ignoring a potential upside here...

only if we can get a line item exemption for CL....

it's possible we could experience a rebirth of sorts. suddenly, due to legislation, RC becomes astoundingly expensive due to transponders and the such, we may be able to pull some of them over our way.

Stock up on supplies because the industry that supports us, well what is let of it, and most LHS are gone. Everything will be mail order from Hong Kong.

Ken

Tom Vieira · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:54:05 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 13, 2020, 09:49:21 AM

Stock up on supplies because the industry that supports us, well what is let of it, and most LHS are gone. Everything will be mail order from Hong Kong.

Ken

unless you're buying new ROJETT engines or Stalkers, you're probably getting what you need from the cottage industry guys (Brodak, RSM, Morris, etc), making it yourself, or EBAY anyhow... at least that's what i'm doing...

If those guys go down, looks like more trips through MSC and McMaster Carr for hardware.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:57:21 AM »

OK, I left my comment.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2020, 10:08:06 AM »

Quote from: T.J. Vieira on January 13, 2020, 09:54:05 AM

unless you're buying new ROJETT engines or Stalkers, you're probably getting what you need from the cottage industry guys (Brodak, RSM, Morris, etc), making it yourself, or EBAY anyhow... at least that's what i'm doing...

If those guys go down, looks like more trips through MSC and McMaster Carr for hardware.

Do you think the remaining supplies/fittings mfg like DuBro, Sig, etc can survive without the RC market?
I agree, we are pretty self sufficient and if we had a OPP class we have enough planes out there to supply us for several generations but what happend to the AMA? Can Muncie survive w/o RC?

Just my opinion, I will keep flying till they stop making motors and batteries.

Ken

Tom Vieira · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2020, 10:24:00 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on January 13, 2020, 10:08:06 AM

Do you think the remaining supplies/fittings mfg like DuBro, Sig, etc can survive without the RC market?
I agree, we are pretty self sufficient and if we had a OPP class we have enough planes out there to supply us for several generations but what happend to the AMA? Can Muncie survive w/o RC?

Just my opinion, I will keep flying till they stop making motors and batteries.

Ken

They are struggling to begin with, and yes, if RC dies, they die as well, which kinda sucks. we're a niche market to begin with! But, there are other options for hinging surfaces, ball links, tanks, etc etc. the thing that would really bite is a company like APC folding up. I've never made a prop from scratch, and have no real desire to either! AMA would probably be toast as well. That's why we'd have to strike hard and fast with the RC guys, assuming CL is exempted.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2020, 07:27:36 PM »

Have to agree, "millions" out of work would be severely exaggerated, even with R/C and all included. Also, I doubt anyone at the FAA knows what "(the kid in the park with an airplane on a string)" is either.

Ed W. Prohaska · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2020, 09:08:13 PM »

From what I've been reading, it seems like the FAA either doesn't understand what control line is, or they just don't care. Why doesn't an AMA rep or 2 meet with a FAA rep or 2, show them a scale and a stunt control line model and say: "This is what they are." Then show them videos of a scale and a stunt flight and say: “This is what they do.” Then make the comment: “Now that you've seen what control line models are and what they do, I'm sure very smart people like yourselves can agree that they don't need to carry transponders and should be specifically excluded from FAA regulation.”

If this has already been done, and they still insist on regulating control line, then our future indeed looks bleak.

This is the comment I wrote, but I won't actually post it if anyone thinks it will be counter productive:

“Please make an effort to familiarize yourselves with the difference between a control line model aircraft and a drone. I have been flying control line model aircraft for 61 years. Their flight is not controlled with a radio and they are not drones. They fly on lines made of steel or synthetic polymers. They are powered by small internal combustion engines or by electric motors. Their flight envelope is restricted to the surface of a hemisphere whose radius is the line length, which does not exceed 70 feet. They are always within the pilot's line of sight.

The lines are attached to a handle held by the pilot. The handle is attached by a safety tong to the pilot's wrist. All components are pull tested for strength based on the model's weight. The model cannot fly either a horizontal or a vertical distance away from the pilot greater than 70 feet, even if the pilot becomes unconscious during the flight.

Control line model aircraft have been flying for nearly eighty years. In that time they have never posed a danger to general, commercial or military aviation and they never will. Therefore it is completely unnecessary, as well as existentially impractical, for control line model aircraft to have on-board transponders. Furthermore, they should be specifically excluded from all UAS regulations and their pilots should not have to register.”

Dave Hull · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2020, 12:37:27 AM »

Ed,

The AMA did give a demo for the FAA folks this past summer. While I would have liked a dedicated C/L demo so that they could understand that simply providing more specific wording would eliminate one innocuous model activity from their regulations once and for all--the AMA wanted to do a more comprehensive demo that likely emphasized R/C. I don't know that, because I wasn't there. However, I did provide a significant amount of material that could (should!) have been included which would have taken the FAA guys thru sequential steps covering why control line is different and does not cause any of the conflicts or concerns that have spawned these regulations. That material, including the takeaway themes, supporting data and handouts are still available. Personally, I doubt the AMA used it in the demo back east. I was assured by our District X Associate VP that he had conveyed this info to those in Muncie that were involved with the demo.

The AMA home office was not very cooperative (ie. sounded either afraid of member interference, or simply believed they already had their show put together and talking to CL leaders was diverting their time) so I had to figure out who and where the demo was by myself. They just didn't want to share information, which I think is a bad sign in a membership organization. The debrief was also pretty unrevealing. "It went really well."

Also note that there was a number of FAA folks out here in LA this past spring, who came to "observe" some model flying. I've already described that situation previously so I won't go thru further details here, but certainly rulemakers within the sUAS Directorate and Airspace Integration activities have seen control line and R/C model operations.

Dave

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2020, 04:43:09 PM »

Thanks for the encouragement Sparky! I sent my comments in.

John Lindberg · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2020, 06:22:39 PM »

I sent in a comment, thank you, Sparky.

RC Storick · « **Reply #21 on:** January 19, 2020, 06:23:47 PM »

There have been only 5,943 comments on this subject. Everyone here needs to take 2 minutes and make a comment so we don't lose another right to happiness.

M Spencer · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2020, 06:31:46 PM »

Exempt Control Line .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_line

These model aircraft ARE TETHERED .

Peter in Fairfax, VA · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2020, 08:00:36 PM »

Left a comment, as follows:

In writing this rule, please be sure to follow the lead of our friends in the UK and include a specific exemption for control line model aircraft.

In their eighty year history, control line model aircraft have never presented any safety issues. While the FAA is well aware of this, and the FAA has a clear understanding of the definition of a UAS in its mind and in conversation, clarity in the written regulation will be appreciated when law enforcement is involved.

The result will be a well crafted regulation.

The UK exemption, which can serve as a model:

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4No1333.pdf

katana · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2020, 04:00:49 AM »

Please note that our exemption only extends to June this year (but it is a start) - what is proposed after that date is anyone's guess!

Author Topic: FAA postings (Read 1950 times)

Tom Vieira

Tom Vieira

Tom Vieira

Tom Vieira