FAA Part 107

[Matt Colan]

The FAA had a press release detailing what Part 107 will entail concerning UAS regulations and integrating them into our national airspace.  Of particular interest, it states at the end of this press release that none of these regulations will apply to model aircraft, and will continue to operate under public law 112-95, which has been in affect for a few years now.

Link to the press release:
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=20515

[Eric Viglione]

Ya, I just got the email and was sorting out all the links and supporting docs. What they leave a little muddy, is the fact that they are now re-introducing the term "Model Aircraft" at the last minute, while their other previous description of UAS by their definition includes Model Aircraft also. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see that perhaps common sense has prevailed, but it would be nice if they could get their stuff straight.

[Matt Colan]

Ya, I just got the email and was sorting out all the links and supporting docs. What they leave a little muddy, is the fact that they are now re-introducing the term "Model Aircraft" at the last minute, while their other previous description of UAS by their definition includes Model Aircraft also. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see that perhaps common sense has prevailed, but it would be nice if they could get their stuff straight.

At least it seems like they've at least taken a step in the right direction.

[Paul Smith]

Until I am made to believe differently, I contend that "their" airspace begins 500 feet above the nearest obstruction in open country and 1000 feet above the tallest obstruction in the city. 

Since MY models are tethered below the height of utility poles and such things, I don't even begin to enter their domain.

[dave siegler]

It seem sot be moving in a less negative direction.

Damm, I was hoping to get a lot of used equipment for cheap when the terrible law was passed.   

So all the guys that said they were going to quit won't?

[Jim Kraft]

Well, non of this still makes any sense to me. It says we come under 336 of 112-95 which will now be codified as 101.
 If you go and try to read the 100's of pages of that law you will end up with the crazies. And which part of it applies to modelers? When they come out and tell us that we no longer as modelers need to register with the FAA, and that we are no longer under their jurisdiction, I might begin to believe they are going to leave us alone. But I have not seen that yet nor do I expect it. And I am not holding my breath. If we are not under their jurisdiction what would be the reason to sign up with them.

[Steve Scott]

Basically says that model aircraft under 55lbs and operated AS A HOBBYIST under jurisdiction of a national community (AMA) then they're not interested in us.

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law
relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into
Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this
subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration
may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model
aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational
use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a communitybased
set of safety guidelines and within the programming
of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds
unless otherwise certified through a design, construction,
inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered
by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not
interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator
of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport
air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located
at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft
operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of
an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating
procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic
control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the
airport)).
(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall
be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue
enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who
endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model
aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating
the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

[Steve Helmick]

So we aren't required to meet construction standards or have our products inspected by FAA licensed Inspectors? Damn, I was going to apply for a job doing that. $30/hour plus mileage would work for me, as long as it doesn't interfere with my bass fishin'.  Steve   

[Steve Scott]

So we aren't required to meet construction standards or have our products inspected by FAA licensed Inspectors? Damn, I was going to apply for a job doing that. $30/hour plus mileage would work for me, as long as it doesn't interfere with my bass fishin'.  Steve   

I already have a federal job but the FAA rep who addressed the gathering at SEFF told the group the FAA didn't have any funds or manpower to enforce this proposed rule.  He also had to pay his own way down to GA so I doubt you'll see mileage.

[CircuitFlyer]

Forget about being a FAA license inspector - now you can legally become a professional control line pilot.  Think of all that prize money that will roll in.  Who's going to be the first to get their FAA "remote pilot certificate with small UAS rating"?

Seriously, there is a lot of bedtime reading material there.  (Who the heck is 'Green Vegans' and what do they have to do with model airplanes?)

Paul

[Jim Kraft]

The FAA never did plan on enforcing it. They have given that job to law enforcement. They have sent the guidelines to all law enforcement agencies to enforce what laws they have including all models having the FAA registration number on the model. When they come out and tell us we no longer have to register our models with the FAA I will believe they are no longer interested in what we do. So if some law man decides to make a name for himself we will suffer. Otherwise I don't think most law enforcement agencies give a hoot about our flying unless we are interfering with some one else.

We had a law enforcement officer come out to our field the other day and warned us if the big bird pilots continue to fly over the neighbor's house, we will be shut down. And some are complaining of the noise from those big 2 cylinder high horsepower engines.

We lease our field from the county. They have the right to shut us down at any time and withdraw our lease agreement. Seems like we are always skating on thin ice. We have had at least one accident where a fellow modeler was hit by a giant scale plane and suffered quite a bit but not deadly.

Since the public hates what we do for one reason or another, and we cannot buy our own land to fly on, we are pretty much at the mercy of the government and adjacent land owners for places to fly.

Years ago we use to fly control line in the city park in the small town where I lived. People never complained and came out to watch and enjoy the action. We use to also fly R/C at the city airport with the support of the pilots and the city.

But things have changed incrementally over the years. Any possibility of a law suite, and no one wants that responsibility. Not trying to be a downer but just stating the facts. The places that have many modelers can as a group overcome many obstacles, but in small numbers in rural areas, it is increasingly harder to find places to fly. But then the problem becomes these clubs get so big that you have to wait in line to fly. I have been to R/C clubs in Phoenix where there were 6 at each flying station waiting to fly.

It use to be that kids were modelers and had some clout because people are always more willing to help any endever that helps out kids activities. Most kids are not interested anymore as there are to many other things to take their short span interest, and aviation in general does not inspire the romance it once did. You tell the average guy on the street that you fly control line and you will get a blank stare because they have never heard of it and have no clue what you are talking about. Most have heard of R/C, and that is all they know. The ones that do know are the ones that tell you they know how you fly those things on strings.
The AMA has only promoted R/C because that is where the money is.

These are just my own thoughts and can only be taken with a grain of salt. I am sure others have their opinions which are just as valid as mine. It is just not possible to go back to 1960 again. Wishing will not make it so.

[dave siegler]

The FAA never did plan on enforcing it. They have given that job to law enforcement. They have sent the guidelines to all law enforcement agencies to enforce what laws they have including all models having the FAA registration number on the model. When they come out and tell us we no longer have to register our models with the FAA I will believe they are no longer interested in what we do. So if some law man decides to make a name for himself we will suffer. Otherwise I don't think most law enforcement agencies give a hoot about our flying unless we are interfering with some one else.

We had a law enforcement officer come out to our field the other day and warned us if the big bird pilots continue to fly over the neighbor's house, we will be shut down. And some are complaining of the noise from those big 2 cylinder high horsepower engines.

We lease our field from the county. They have the right to shut us down at any time and withdraw our lease agreement. Seems like we are always skating on thin ice. We have had at least one accident where a fellow modeler was hit by a giant scale plane and suffered quite a bit but not deadly.

Since the public hates what we do for one reason or another, and we cannot buy our own land to fly on, we are pretty much at the mercy of the government and adjacent land owners for places to fly.

Years ago we use to fly control line in the city park in the small town where I lived. People never complained and came out to watch and enjoy the action. We use to also fly R/C at the city airport with the support of the pilots and the city.

But things have changed incrementally over the years. Any possibility of a law suite, and no one wants that responsibility. Not trying to be a downer but just stating the facts. The places that have many modelers can as a group overcome many obstacles, but in small numbers in rural areas, it is increasingly harder to find places to fly. But then the problem becomes these clubs get so big that you have to wait in line to fly. I have been to R/C clubs in Phoenix where there were 6 at each flying station waiting to fly.

It use to be that kids were modelers and had some clout because people are always more willing to help any endever that helps out kids activities. Most kids are not interested anymore as there are to many other things to take their short span interest, and aviation in general does not inspire the romance it once did. You tell the average guy on the street that you fly control line and you will get a blank stare because they have never heard of it and have no clue what you are talking about. Most have heard of R/C, and that is all they know. The ones that do know are the ones that tell you they know how you fly those things on strings.
The AMA has only promoted R/C because that is where the money is.

These are just my own thoughts and can only be taken with a grain of salt. I am sure others have their opinions which are just as valid as mine. It is just not possible to go back to 1960 again. Wishing will not make it so.

The above issues are the same issues we all had since before part 107. 

The good news ,at least for now, we will be operating under the same rules we have had in place since 2012.  Most people could operate under the 2012 rules.  This isn't a bad outcome all things considered.

Don't cloud the issue please. 

[De Hill]

Dave,

I don't think that Jim clouded the issue.

[Randy Cuberly]

Dave,

I don't think that Jim clouded the issue.

I agree with De.  I don't think Jim clouded the issue and he stated very clearly that it was his opinion only.  However the issue is pretty cloudy and I suspect will remain so for a long time to come!

Best thing is to just ignore the fools in Washington and carry on with your life, where possible!   If they come to get you...Shoot back I will! 

[Jim Kraft]

I just got off the phone with Joe Bowman. Joe has had a working relationship with the FAA for years as he has all of the pilots ratings you can get and has flown over a 100 different aircraft in all kinds of jobs. He has given me some encouragement in that he believes most of what is happening is a knee jerk reaction to the drone flyers that have no respect for anyone. I tend to agree. Anyone that knows Joe knows that he is a straight shooter and one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. Joe and I also have back pain in common like many others in our age group.

What we are hoping for is that this whole thing will blow over and it will not effect model aviation at all as we know it. But for now no one knows for sure as it is still in the works being written up in the senate and the house. I am going to continue to fly when my back will let me and hope for the best. I am not going to sign up with the FAA however. I really do not believe we will have any trouble as long as we are not endangering someone or giving them grief with noise or flying in their air space.
 

[Fredvon4]

Unfortunately what Steve Scott posted is indeed what CONGRESS put into a DOT FAA bill to demand they do something about the drone UAS problem

Unfortunate because the DOT FAA, in their rule making, ignored this carve out and went to great lengths (I believe defend-able in court) to explain why the new rules do not "promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft"

To this day, I believe the rules, as written, apply to all of us, including control line, not withstanding the AMA's interpretation to the contrary.

I hope some day common sense prevails... not likely with our current national leadership, both the administration and or the Congress

Time and Time again I highly recommend firing EVERY incumbent at the ballot box

They are ALL universally 100% incompetent to write or implement laws within the confines of the USA Constitution as written

[dave siegler]

Sure he is clouding the issue.  
The issues on large aircraft and noise and loss of flying sites go on way back, well before drones and the 2012 special rule.
They have nothing to do with part 107.  

part 107 implies that the AMA has a lot of stake in operational rules for model aircraft.  Part 107 explicitly excludes hobby operators. We are covered but the earlier 2012 rule.   

May be there will be more aggressive enforcement now that this rule is a law.   I am OK with that.  I have had too many run ins with "entitled" drone jackwagons flying over my head at a public event, believing it is their right to do so.


The people that predicted the end of model airplanes did not get it right.   and I am pretty happy about it.

We are still under the rules from 2012.  

That is a win all things considered. It could have been way worse.  

[Jim Kraft]

Dave, we still do not know what the senate and the house are going to come up with. They will be the final authority on what we do in the future. It ain't over till the fat lady sings. But for right now it looks way better than in the past. It also looks like AMA will get their wish as people will join just to not be under FAA ruling if that continues to be the case. Hopefully it will all work out that way but we do not know what will come out of Washington.

No matter how positive or negative we are it will make no difference to the final reality. For all our sakes I hope your vision of the future is spot on.

[Terry Caron]

Surely, in an Open Forum post, all are to be encouraged to express their thoughts and opinions relevant to the topic, without censure.
I hope there isn't a requirement that all responses must contain a proposed solution to the issue discussed.
As I understand Jim K's remarks, clearly stated as one man's opinion, he bemoans (as, no doubt, we all of an age to remember "back when" do) the fact of the incremental marginalization of c/l flying, of which the UAS issue is simply another brick in the wall, subjecting the hobby to further regulation that, aside from all other factors relating to the loss of flying sites and general interest, has even caused many of the old guard here to threaten abandonment.
A positive result or not, the controversy was part of the consideration that led me to join the AMA for the first time recently, in the hope (perhaps vain) that it might in some way increase my chances of continuing to enjoy the hobby to which I returned after 55 years.
I may simply be an optimist, but I see the AMA's stated clarification, hopefully accurate, as a good sign for now.
I'm gonna build a new plane.  

Terry

[FLOYD CARTER]

It seems that most of the people on this forum have figured it out, and  have predicted the real outcome of all this, which is to say that it's all a "tempest in a teapot.".

It's too bad that the AMA can't seem to give us any credible information regarding C/L flying.  Instead, they just go the route of saying that they will (somehow) "educate" all members so that "our" people will not be the cause of any difficulties.

I hope the folks in Washington will buy this weak explanation.

Floyd

[john e. holliday]

I think when this first started I said I would never register with the FAA.  It also got e that people would actually send the $5.00to who it went to.   In all this time I think it was a fiasco that the AMA came up with to protect the RC pilots and the rest of us, CL & FF, got suckered in.  For Christmas my wife got me a miniature quad rotor to play with.   With my grandson's help I have managed to hover a few times.  He worked and made enough money and bought a bigger quad to fly out door with acamera on it.  No body said a word to him about registering with the FAA.   He has gotten good with it and it gets him out doors in stead of sitting at the computer playing games.  Now that all the powers to be that I think wasted money on meetings, travels and dinners should put the money back in the pot it came out of.   Now, the areas that say we can't fly CL in, when is some one going to push it and try it.   I mean what civilian, military, police and medical plane is going to be hampered by a control line plane flying in the areas they used to fly in.   Remember the circle at the old AMA headquarters?   It is time we get back to flying like we used to do in a safe manner.  I am sharing a field now with the powered parasail pilots.   We work together.  They do not fly over the circle if I am up flying and I don't take off if they are getting ready to.   I would so love to try the form of flying as it looks like fun.