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Author Topic: F2B World Championships  (Read 12320 times)

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2018, 11:35:40 AM »
Okay, maybe not... The FAI site seems to not be able to get it right...

So, is this now official?

Perhaps this electronic scoring system is not yet ready for prime time. Marco must be crushed. Congrats to Liu...

Bob


Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2018, 11:42:49 AM »
Oops! I was looking at the qualifying rounds scores on the FAI site. My bad...

So, does any website now have the official results posted?

Bob

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2018, 12:33:06 PM »
According to their Facebook page, Liu Yang is first, followed by Marco and Igor in third
Matt Colan

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2018, 01:16:50 PM »
Trying to figure out from their web site is like Abbot and Costello's who's on first. It would be interesting to know which flew electric and who flew glow. But that info may never be known. As it is, we will be blessed just to know who placed where.
Jim Kraft

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2018, 01:23:57 PM »
From what I have seen on Facebook and the Barton site team USA did not fair too well except for Chris and Orestes.   Looks like Chinese are team champions with Japan right behind.   Did not try to figure who the third place team is.  Too bad we can't get more support from our own country.  At least we can thank all the team members for representing the USA in the different F2 events.    H^^ H^^
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2018, 02:29:16 PM »
I suppose the Chinese Team won the Team Trophy.  I have to wonder if it's still like the old days where those guys were totally sponsored by their Government.

I always wonder why I don't like the Chinese...guess I'm just a BAAAD...Guy!

Incidentally.  Did something happen to Joe Gilbert?  He's such a nice person and, to me at least seems to be a much better flyer than his scores reflect.

Did the judges just not like him because he's a "New Guy".  By the way I also do not like the French and have never trusted them to do anything honestly.  I dealt with a lot of them through NATO in Europe when they were pulling out of NATO in the 1960's and to a man they were "RATS" in my opinion and they all were arrogant and hated Americans.
If the Germans or Russians or anyone else decide again they want France they can have it as far as I'm concerned.   In fact, I would form a cheering section!  I would never go there for any reason.

I certainly know the judges were not all French but my guess is if there was any was possible way, the rotten french would try to stack the deck against the American Team!

Just my educated opinion and your's may vary without malice from me!   H^^

Randy Cuberly

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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2018, 02:32:50 PM »
Preliminary scores were wrong.

Yang (China) 1st

Valliera (Italy) 2nd

Burger (Slovikia) 3rd

Nogome (Japan) 4th

Hernandez (USA) 5th

Hiki (Japan) 6th

Rudd (USA) 7th

Team Japan 1st

Team China 2nd

Tean France 3rd

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2018, 02:34:42 PM »
Congratulations to Marco, Orestes, and and Chris !

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2018, 02:41:45 PM »
I suppose the Chinese Team won the Team Trophy.  I have to wonder if it's still like the old days where those guys were totally sponsored by their Government.

I always wonder why I don't like the Chinese...guess I'm just a BAAAD...Guy!

Incidentally.  Did something happen to Joe Gilbert?  He's such a nice person and, to me at least seems to be a much better flyer than his scores reflect.

Did the judges just not like him because he's a "New Guy".  By the way I also do not like the French and have never trusted them to do anything honestly.  I dealt with a lot of them through NATO in Europe when they were pulling out of NATO in the 1960's and to a man they were "RATS" in my opinion and they all were arrogant and hated Americans.
If the Germans or Russians or anyone else decide again they want France they can have it as far as I'm concerned.   In fact, I would form a cheering section!  I would never go there for any reason.

I certainly know the judges were not all French but my guess is if there was any was possible way, the rotten french would try to stack the deck against the American Team!

Just my educated opinion and your's may vary without malice from me!   H^^

Randy Cuberly


Since you are into opinions, here is mine:

Joe and Richard never had a chance. They fly a USA type pattern that no longer scores there. They don't have adequate corners.

Somehow the now accepted USA type scoring pattern does not reward tighter corners  even though the rules specify tight corners. This is not helping our F2B team compete.

Look at the US results. Orestes has the tightest corners of the US group, and he was the highest placing US pilot. Chris was the next tightest, and the next highest placing pilot.  And so on..
 If the US does not start getting on board with tight corners, get used to these results.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2018, 02:44:12 PM »
Hmmmmmm...All kinds of fancy electronic scoring equipment and they still can't get it right!  Yep!  the French are still French alright!  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2018, 03:13:02 PM »
Paul,
I believe you completely!  I've seen this occurring in local contests here in the USA where "smoothness" and "Pretty" have been described by judges as the desirable effect for the pattern.

I have in the past however seen Joe Gilbert fly very tight corners.  It's true that I don't believe Richard ever has!  Perhaps the judging at our selection process is not attuned to the necessities to win at the worlds.

I do remember however when the Americans flew hard tight corners and the Europeans calls us "Too Fast and Loud" and even Ragged".

Understand that my opinions are mine, but they weren't formed yesterday!

I also have to wonder why there isn't a coaching process by the "champions" we have an abundance of here in the US for prospective US team members.  And I don't just mean an afternoon in CA.  If we had an organization in the USA that was interested in "Modeling" and Modeling Competition, instead of multi-rotors, and MONEY, it would likely be easy too arrange that!

I also have to wonder why a totally European organization Founded in France is allowed to make all the "rules" for International Competition.  The FAI scoring system Sucks in my opinion!  It makes no sense to me that several maneuvers should each
 be worth, 2 or 3 times as much as others!  I simply don't buy that they are that much more difficult to fly well!  That comment has nothing to do with what the pattern looks like but that also has changed many times over the years.

Randy Cuberly  "Opinionated old curmudgeon"   <=  H^^
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2018, 04:11:36 PM »
Okay, now that it is official and proper, it's time to congratulate the winners. So, here's to you Liu Yang; congratulations on your well earned win. And, here's to the entire Japanese team for their outstanding team victory (first time for them I think...). I see my very good friend, Masaru Hiki placed 6th; if I'm not mistaken, that's his highest placing yet. So here's to you Masaru! And congrats to Mr. Nogome for his great fourth place finish.

Congrats also to Orestes for a valiant try at a title defense; I know first hand just how difficult that is... And a big pat on the back goes out to Chris Rud for his seventh place finish in his first outing at a world championships as a Senior flier; he'll win one in the future I'm certain.

Condolences to Marco Valliera; it must have stung a great deal to have seen the initial results and believe that you had won the championships, only to have it taken away in a recount. Perhaps the electronic scoring should have been checked the old fashioned way just to be sure on it's first try before the scores were posted...

And lastly, congrats to Igor Burger; he is a class act and has been a great Champion in the past (two times...), and will be again I predict.

May you all now return home safely!

Bob Hunt

 

Offline James Holford

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2018, 04:19:17 PM »
First or last im proud of our USA. They gave it their all and thats all we can ask for.

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Online Brent Williams

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2018, 05:22:44 PM »

Since you are into opinions, here is mine:

Joe and Richard never had a chance. They fly a USA type pattern that no longer scores there. They don't have adequate corners.

Somehow the now accepted USA type scoring pattern does not reward tighter corners  even though the rules specify tight corners. This is not helping our F2B team compete.

Look at the US results. Orestes has the tightest corners of the US group, and he was the highest placing US pilot. Chris was the next tightest, and the next highest placing pilot.  And so on..
 If the US does not start getting on board with tight corners, get used to these results.

As an aside to the FAI corner reward, Paul's corners during his Sunday competition flights at the NWR with his new P-47 were astoundingly sharp!  I complemented him afterwards and he mentioned that his corners were actually backed off a bit from that planes true potential.  You had to be there, but given the caliber of the company he was flying against, I was surely impressed.
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2018, 05:32:25 PM »
By the way I also do not like the French and have never trusted them to do anything honestly.  I dealt with a lot of them through NATO in Europe when they were pulling out of NATO in the 1960's and to a man they were "RATS" in my opinion and they all were arrogant and hated Americans.
If the Germans or Russians or anyone else decide again they want France they can have it as far as I'm concerned.   In fact, I would form a cheering section!  I would never go there for any reason.

I went to the last three world championships held in France.  I found the French people to be most friendly and welcoming, especially to Americans.  Some examples: 

The 1990 opening ceremony was held in a stadium with lots of local folks in attendance.  They applauded when each team was introduced.  The American team received applause and cheering second only to the French team, only because the French team introduction was accompanied by fireworks. 

We drove around scouting for practice fields before the 2000 world champs.  We came upon a French air force base and asked if they would let us practice there. They were apologetic because the commander wasn't there (it was a holiday weekend) to approve letting us in.  Another guy we asked about a practice site misinterpreted our request and led us in his car to the WC site, several miles away.

Part of Dave Fitzgerald's loot for his 2008 world championship was a locally made ceramic lamp.  Dave assigned me to pack the lamp and ship it to him.  Knowing no French (I'm an American) I went to Longwy where the lamp was made, found a lamp factory and asked them if they'd pack the lamp.  It turned out to be a different factory than the one that made Dave's lamp, but they packed it elaborately and didn't want to take any money for doing so.  I think I may have forced (Dave's) money on them.

I also have to wonder why a totally European organization Founded in France is allowed to make all the "rules" for International Competition. 

Although it is currently fashionable to have opinions without facts or data, you might look at the FAI's Web site to see their rules process.  It's in English.
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2018, 07:53:37 PM »
I had to drop out around 1983 or so and I came back in this January of this year, I was disappointed at how big the corners had become.  I am not sure if it is the plans we are flying now can't turn them or the judges aren't rewarding them.  I think it is the latter.  I was not around to argue the changes but I suspect we changed the rules to accommodate those huge, over powered planes with heavy showroom finishes.  Instead of learning to build to meet the standards, we changed the standards to meet the build.  I could be very wrong but the deeper I get back in the less I think I am.  If we are ever going to be competitive again at the world level we are going to have to start rewarding 5' corners.  We have a judging problem in that if you follow the judging guide there is no way to reward tighter corners because you have to deduct for errors.  A 6' or 7' corner is still "tight" and from what I saw on the NATS videos even a 10' passes as "tight".  So why do 5' when you can get just as high a score at 7'?  I think today's ships can do the 5' corners and we need to bring them back.  Even 6' would be an improvement.  If we don't then we will forever be "bringing a knife to a gunfight" at worlds.

And that is just one old timer's opinion - Ken
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2018, 08:26:11 PM »
\  I was not around to argue the changes but I suspect we changed the rules to accommodate those huge, over powered planes with heavy showroom finishes.  Instead of learning to build to meet the standards, we changed the standards to meet the build. 

   Given that *I* changed the rules, I can assure you it was absolutely not to accommodate "huge overpowered planes" (which, incidentally, turn far better than was common practice from 1952-1989). If anything, the change - specifically, removing the entirely impossible 5' radius requirement - emphasized the corners, since it was essentially the same as calling the required radius 0 feet. But it also removed a long-term bugaboo where a few concentrated entirely on corner radius without considering anything else.

    In practice, it changed nothing about the corners, because the most competitive fliers are generally distinguished by how tight the corners were, and how close they come to 45 degree dimensions VS what sort of geometry errors they made as a consequence.

   A significant change from the "good old days" is that the airplanes don't seem to come to a dead stop in the corners, turn and then slowly accelerate away. They almost all fly through the corners with little speed variation, which, if you don't provide the proper entry and exit "definition", might look smoother (which it is) which you may interpret as softer. A different significant change is that the maneuvers from the top fliers are all in the range of (although not quite) 45 degrees, which also makes it harder to make the corners look sharp since they are smaller and the corner is a larger fraction of the dimensions.

   Paul's comment reflects a change in the FAI over the time frame you mention from a time when exactly NO emphasis or consideration was placed on cornering or sizes in comparison to hitting 5 feet, to the current situation where, apparently, size and cornering are the key determining factors. This was after many years of US pilot's "encouragement" to do so, but was probably not the source of the change.

    Brett

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2018, 09:30:27 PM »
I went to the last three world championships held in France.  I found the French people to be most friendly and welcoming, especially to Americans.  Some examples: 

The 1990 opening ceremony was held in a stadium with lots of local folks in attendance.  They applauded when each team was introduced.  The American team received applause and cheering second only to the French team, only because the French team introduction was accompanied by fireworks. 

We drove around scouting for practice fields before the 2000 world champs.  We came upon a French air force base and asked if they would let us practice there. They were apologetic because the commander wasn't there (it was a holiday weekend) to approve letting us in.  Another guy we asked about a practice site misinterpreted our request and led us in his car to the WC site, several miles away.

Part of Dave Fitzgerald's loot for his 2008 world championship was a locally made ceramic lamp.  Dave assigned me to pack the lamp and ship it to him.  Knowing no French (I'm an American) I went to Longwy where the lamp was made, found a lamp factory and asked them if they'd pack the lamp.  It turned out to be a different factory than the one that made Dave's lamp, but they packed it elaborately and didn't want to take any money for doing so.  I think I may have forced (Dave's) money on them.

Although it is currently fashionable to have opinions without facts or data, you might look at the FAI's Web site to see their rules process.  It's in English.

Howard,
I'm happy you had warm experiences in France.  My own were not always as warm and friendly!

My opinions of the French people in general were formed in the 1960's as a military US Army Officer working for HAFMED (Headquarters Allied Forces Mediterranean),
In Malta GC.  During the time when France was withdrawing from NATO (1964 to 1965) Roughly, I visited Paris, the outgoing SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Forces Mediterranean) Headquarters.  I saw riots, burning American Flags, Had excrement thrown at me, and was called names that were not very NICE!  All this because France, basically, wanted to make all the rules for NATO in the Mediterranean ( as they always did for everything else)!  Most of the other NATO countries, of course, objected to this, so De Gaul, basically took thier "marbles and went home"!  The French people in general tend to be nice on the surface as long as you're doing things their way.  Not so nice if you're trying to do things differently than "their" way!  Yes it's their dammed country and they certainly have the right to do that but like wise I have the right not to like their way! 

Later in the early 1970's after the Army experience, I met and married a lovely Austrian lady here in the US, who was with the Austrian Counsel General's Office in Chicago (USA).  She happened to be a simultaneous interpreter of several languages, one of which was French.  She had spent a lot of time in Paris and wanted to Honeymoon there.  Against my better judgement I agreed and we went there.  I of course enjoyed myself and found most of the French people to be kind and friendly.
However my sweet lovely Bride after a few days said that many of her long time friends there now were pretty cold toward her and she discovered that it was because she had married an American. 

We left Paris and went to Vienna (Austria) her home.  The difference in the way I was treated there was astounding.  The Austrian people are very warm and friendly, and for all practical purposes seem to live in a moving "Party".   They made me feel as if I belonged there.

Many years later I had occasion to return to Paris on Business for several days and once again was made to feel like an orphan child.  I found in general the French people were generally rude unless they wanted something from you.

I've taken the time to write this simply to show that my opinion of the French people was not formed in a vacuum. 

I have traveled extensively through out the world and found the people in most places to be warm and genuine.  Not so the people of France.  At least not toward Americans!  At least not after they get your money!

There are other reasons, I would not print here, but suffice it to say that I would never go to France again!

Randy Cuberly

PS:  I have read the FAI Rules and think they are stilted and in spite of being drawn up by a committee of different countries still reflect the general attitude of the original French organization!  Yes, my opinion but I assure you it's an educated one!








Randy Cuberly
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Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2018, 09:38:22 PM »
A five foot corners Not a Problem .

a Clean Consistant five foot corner . no bobbles or bounces IS .

But steping outside convention ( Nobler Spec Geometry ) can get you on the way .( Beriger didnt have ' Nobler ' aerodynamics  )

5.2 plus laps And Low Inertia required . Or Excellent Control Authority . Which you DONT GET on .015 stainless lines .

Obviously the main objective is a good party .  S?P S?P
Good to see the international ' Liberty Equality Fraternity ' etc . Allways thought the meeting of nations of more importance historically than the victories or defeats as its a competition Not a Conflict ??

Theyll be asking for the Statue of Liberty back , if you keep that up , Randy .

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2018, 09:42:19 PM »
I would like to congratulate my Friend Masaru Hiki (Hiki San) on his performance at the worlds.

Hiki San has attended VSC here in Tucson several times (4 I think) with Kaz Minato.  He is a very fine gentleman and an excellent stunt flier of the very topmost caliber.

He has in fact won both Classic and super 70's here several times.  His patterns with classic airplanes are seemingly near perfection, and his corners with the classic airplanes are astounding.  We nicknamed him "The Flash" because his corners simply gave the appearance of a "Flash" and a straight line.  No Kidding!

I am not one bit surprised at his performance at the worlds and expect to one day soon, see him as the World Champion!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2018, 09:49:41 PM »


Theyll be asking for the Statue of Liberty back , if you keep that up , Randy .


 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

The French did help us in the American Revolution.  They sat in their ships in the harbor at New York and waited until they were absolutely sure we were going to win and then finally joined in to the victory.
History shows they were actually scared silly of reprisal from King George!

But they did help in the "Mop Up".

As for the statue...good riddance!   <= <= <=  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Randy Cuberly
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2018, 10:13:41 PM »
As far as the  Corner  goes, No One  is  doing a  5 foot radius  corner.

Randy

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2018, 10:24:23 PM »
In truth the human eye and brain is not capable of registering the difference between a 6 or 7 ft radius corner and a 4 or 5 ft radius corner.

It has been photographically proven that the aforementioned 5 ft corner is likely impossible with a CL stunt plane!  Also the "G" loads even at 6 or 7 ft and 60 or so MPH are astounding!

Remember Derrick's folded wing at the NATS?

Not picking on you Derrick...I think you may very well have won if you could have kept your primary airplane in one piece!  That's also the opinion of someone else that I respect very highly!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2018, 12:24:25 AM »
Remember Derrick's folded wing at the NATS?

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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2018, 12:31:29 AM »
I think this thread has some very unfortunate undertones to it. The team did the hard work and not inconsiderable expense to both get on the team, prepare and travel, and compete, everyone else sat at home and read about it. Anyone who thinks they could do better is certainly welcome to try. The pilots from other countries aren't exactly cannon fodder, they are damn good.

I think Orestes and everyone on the USA team did a fine job under difficult circumstances, and as far as I can tell conducted themselves with grace, dignity, and sportsmanship. They should be, and we should be, proud of and grateful for their accomplishments.

     Brett

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2018, 04:08:44 AM »
I think this thread has some very unfortunate undertones to it. The team did the hard work and not inconsiderable expense to both get on the team, prepare and travel, and compete, everyone else sat at home and read about it. Anyone who thinks they could do better is certainly welcome to try. The pilots from other countries aren't exactly cannon fodder, they are damn good.

I think Orestes and everyone on the USA team did a fine job under difficult circumstances, and as far as I can tell conducted themselves with grace, dignity, and sportsmanship. They should be, and we should be, proud of and grateful for their accomplishments.

     Brett

Thank you Brett, you are absolutely correct. We should all be proud of our team. I know I am!

Derek


Offline Derek Barry

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2018, 04:31:41 AM »
Not picking on you Derrick...I think you may very well have won if you could have kept your primary airplane in one piece!  That's also the opinion of someone else that I respect very highly!

Randy Cuberly

Well, I would like to agree with that assessment, however, there is no way to really know. The folded plane certainly would have scored better in appearance judging, which would have narrowed the gap between David and I, but he was flying extremely well on top five day. (Probably as good as I have ever seen him fly) David was the clear winner that day, and anyone who watched all three rounds would probably agree. My last flight was probably as good as I was capable of, and it was still a few points shy of David. Even if I had done it twice, I still would have been second, or "first place loser" as Paul likes to call it.

Derek

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2018, 05:02:22 AM »
Thank you Brett, you are absolutely correct. We should all be proud of our team. I know I am!

Derek

I second Derek's and Brett's thoughts about the United States team; they fought hard to get to the WCs, and they did a great job. If you have never been a participant in the crucible that is a World Championships, there is no way that you can understand the challenges and the pressures that exist there. Our team can be proud of their week's efforts, and we should all applaud them heartily!

In an earlier post I congratulated the "winners" (really there is only one winner...), and was remiss in not giving appropriate credit to the entire US team for their valiant effort. Thank you all guys  and young lady!

What a wonderful experience this must have been for Samantha Hines. She will remember this forever and will maintain the many friendships she made throughout her life I'm sure. 

Bob Hunt
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 06:29:39 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline TDM

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2018, 06:09:08 AM »
Congratulations to the USA team job well done. It must have been very tough. I thank you for representing us for the effort physical financial etc that went in it.
I am proud of all of you Orestes Chris Richard Joe and Samantha. Have a safe trip back home.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2018, 07:42:36 AM »
I also agree with what Brett said!  Well done Team USA!
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Offline pat king

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2018, 08:05:16 AM »
I want to say to all the US competitors that we appreciate all your hard work, the hours spent, and the expense you put forth to represent the USA. I am proud of all of you.

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2018, 08:34:03 AM »
I think this thread has some very unfortunate undertones to it. The team did the hard work and not inconsiderable expense to both get on the team, prepare and travel, and compete, everyone else sat at home and read about it. Anyone who thinks they could do better is certainly welcome to try. The pilots from other countries aren't exactly cannon fodder, they are damn good.

I think Orestes and everyone on the USA team did a fine job under difficult circumstances, and as far as I can tell conducted themselves with grace, dignity, and sportsmanship. They should be, and we should be, proud of and grateful for their accomplishments.

     Brett

Great Post!! 

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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2018, 08:35:23 AM »
OK, I started the tight corner discussion on this thread. I was not trying to pick on any one, but trying to suggest how the next team could train for that competition. Unfortunately, that is now a requirement for doing well there.

Like the others, I am proud of the effort expended by these pilots to compete at this competition. I know what Chris went through getting ready, and that would be emotionally hard on anyone. He just kept going without skipping a beat and did very well for his first Sr competition there. Orestes coming off a win, that is really hard to keep the intensity and drive to do well. His finish showed that he really wanted to win again.

Thanks all for your representing the USA.


Offline Brett Buck

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2018, 09:31:53 AM »
OK, I started the tight corner discussion on this thread. I was not trying to pick on any one, but trying to suggest how the next team could train for that competition. Unfortunately, that is now a requirement for doing well there.

   I am sure you are correct and that was an excellent point, but I think people got off studying that tree, and forgot they were in a forest. I am sure everyone involved is well aware of the situation, having lived it for the last year and been consumed with it for the last two weeks.

   I also think that everyone should be aware of and keenly appreciative of the fact that FAI competition has been extremely frustrating long before the current emphasis shifts. Even being willing to *try* seems to be a difficult hurdle - I quite consciously chose NOT to even try out because I didn't think I could give it the effort it deserves. Chris/Richard/Joe/Samantha took on that challenge knowing full well it was going to be extremely difficult. I think everyone deserves all the credit in the world for that, and it is *far more important than the actual results*.

    Brett

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2018, 09:53:53 AM »
I too am proud of our entire Team USA that flew the F2 events, all of them.   Team F2B was all new to the worlds.   But I still wonder why Joe and Samantha went with fairly new planes to compete with.  All the factions of FAI control line take a lot of dedication and work to get competitive.   I know I tried with several partners years ago to compete in F2C with what resembled planes and not the guppies I see going now.   Now it is buy and fly/practice for most with planes that don't look like planes.   Even the F2A plane all look alike and it is up to who gets the best performance with the store bought equipment.   All four classes of FAI control line are no more BOM like when I tried F2C competition.

But looking at the posts on Facebook it looks like the USA had some podium finishes.  Hopefully see all the results in time. D>K
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2018, 10:19:36 AM »
OK, I started the tight corner discussion on this thread. I was not trying to pick on any one, but trying to suggest how the next team could train for that competition. Unfortunately, that is now a requirement for doing well there.

Like the others, I am proud of the effort expended by these pilots to compete at this competition. I know what Chris went through getting ready, and that would be emotionally hard on anyone. He just kept going without skipping a beat and did very well for his first Sr competition there. Orestes coming off a win, that is really hard to keep the intensity and drive to do well. His finish showed that he really wanted to win again.

Thanks all for your representing the USA.
I am with you on that.  Congratulations to a very talented team that did their best in difficult conditions.  Welcome home!

I am guilty on an earlier post of appearing to criticize the participants when my problem is with the system.  My reaction produced a flurry of rebuttals. This was not the proper place or time for me to do that and for that I apologize.  I do feel that we need to revisit some issues but not on this thread and certainly not now. 

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Offline James Mills

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2018, 11:12:49 AM »
I think this thread has some very unfortunate undertones to it. The team did the hard work and not inconsiderable expense to both get on the team, prepare and travel, and compete, everyone else sat at home and read about it. Anyone who thinks they could do better is certainly welcome to try. The pilots from other countries aren't exactly cannon fodder, they are damn good.

I think Orestes and everyone on the USA team did a fine job under difficult circumstances, and as far as I can tell conducted themselves with grace, dignity, and sportsmanship. They should be, and we should be, proud of and grateful for their accomplishments.

     Brett
Well said, I agree 100%.  Proud of our team, safe travel home.


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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2018, 11:56:02 AM »
   I am sure you are correct and that was an excellent point, but I think people got off studying that tree, and forgot they were in a forest. I am sure everyone involved is well aware of the situation, having lived it for the last year and been consumed with it for the last two weeks.

   I also think that everyone should be aware of and keenly appreciative of the fact that FAI competition has been extremely frustrating long before the current emphasis shifts. Even being willing to *try* seems to be a difficult hurdle - I quite consciously chose NOT to even try out because I didn't think I could give it the effort it deserves. Chris/Richard/Joe/Samantha took on that challenge knowing full well it was going to be extremely difficult. I think everyone deserves all the credit in the world for that, and it is *far more important than the actual results*.

    Brett

Bravo, Brett!

Ted

Offline RandySmith

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2018, 01:15:03 PM »
I think this thread has some very unfortunate undertones to it. The team did the hard work and not inconsiderable expense to both get on the team, prepare and travel, and compete, everyone else sat at home and read about it. Anyone who thinks they could do better is certainly welcome to try. The pilots from other countries aren't exactly cannon fodder, they are damn good.

I think Orestes and everyone on the USA team did a fine job under difficult circumstances, and as far as I can tell conducted themselves with grace, dignity, and sportsmanship. They should be, and we should be, proud of and grateful for their accomplishments.

     Brett

Brett    exactlly  , Great post    we  should  all  be  proud  of our US Teams ,  It takes  tremendous efforts  to  represent the  US, or any other  country, our  Guys and  Girl  gave a   tremendous  effort  for the  US Team  and  we should  applaud  the  effort   and dedication  they put forth .

Randy

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2018, 06:22:37 PM »
I'm unclear on how any of this scoring confusion is possible inasmuch as the entire scoring regimen was performed by Silicon Valley's finest flawless findings.  (Silicon Valley as a generic fill-in).  Why did anyone even bother to check...and how did they manage to convince the computers they were wrong?  Why didn't they all just ask Siri?

I'm so confused.

Ted

Offline BillLee

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2018, 11:53:15 PM »
Question for the guys that are versed in the FAI rules.

Are the two juniors who were outside the top 15 after qualifying eligible to still win the "open"world championship? Or, at this point, just trying to win the junior division?

Thanks,
Tom
The top 15 (plus any tie at #15) all compete for the overall world Championship, irregardless of age. The top three Juniors are added into the final rounds and compete for the Junior World Championship.

In the case this year, one Junior made the top 15, so the final rounds were for 17 competitors, 14 Seniors, 3 Juniors. The 3 Juniors competing for the junior World Championship against each other, and the one Junior that qualified in the top 15 also competing for the Senior World Championship.

And yes, it is possible for a Junior to be both Senior AND Junior World Champion, as has happened in F2D recently.

Regards,

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Online Tom Luciano

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2018, 04:11:23 AM »
Thank you Bill, for the clarification.

Tom
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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2018, 08:57:58 AM »
But I still wonder why Joe and Samantha went with fairly new planes to compete with. 

I can't be 100% sure in their case, but often the need for a new model is simply the requirement of getting it there.
Basically it has to be take-apart, and most models built are not.

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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2018, 10:32:58 AM »
I can't be 100% sure in their case, but often the need for a new model is simply the requirement of getting it there.
Basically it has to be take-apart, and most models built are not.

Pat MacKenzie

You got it, I'm thinking Joe would have loved to have been able to compete with his Ringmaster.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2018, 01:44:57 AM »
This was world CHAMP, not world war, so there is not need to hate chinese, french, russian or me or anyone else  VD~, I can say it was nice friendly contest, beside problems in Ukraine (which they must solve themself) I can say it was nice contest in friendly atmosphere.

Regarding new planes - Pat got it as it was also his case. The same I did in Perth, my model was few weeks old  ;D unfortunately this time I broke my new model in my car which I used last year on E champ so I had to take 7 years old model which was already "forever" hanging on wall and I had to reincarnate it. And what is pity, I cannot use it as an excuse for my 3rd place. Youngsters are comming and want win. I did not spectate them because I concentrated to our pilots, especially 15 years old Patrik. But from few maneuvers which I saw they all simply fly well, and this time it was really hard to get to finals. Example is Alex S. and Jiri V. - mates who placed 2nd and 3rd after me some years ago in Bulgaria. Alex went to finals after luck in last qualification round and Jiri did not do it at all. Well young generation comes :- )))))) ... and that is good.

If there is what I am disapointed from is fact that there are too many purchased models on top. Looks like it is getting to be "toy" event, not "modeling" anymore  :'(

Offline GERALD WIMMER

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2018, 04:40:50 AM »

If there is what I am disapointed from is fact that there are too many purchased models on top. Looks like it is getting to be "toy" event, not "modeling" anymore  :'(

Hello
This is where the US appearance points and builder of the model rules seem better to me. Personally I think an individuals effort to build a scale stunt subjects like Al Rabe's models is as good as it gets ! There is a likeness and similarity between most top models now with no incentive to create a B24, FW200 or  Avro Lancaster stunter to please the eye.  ;)

Regards Gerald

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2018, 06:52:23 AM »
This was world CHAMP, not world war, so there is not need to hate chinese, french, russian or me or anyone else  VD~, I can say it was nice friendly contest, beside problems in Ukraine (which they must solve themself) I can say it was nice contest in friendly atmosphere.



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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2018, 07:57:36 AM »
If I understood what I read FAI DID enact a BOM bonus point scheme for 2019.  At the last minute somebody pulled out the ‘points’ to it and it was left as a friendly suggestion.  It should be pushed again as a MANDATE.  Building a high-performance take-apart travel airplane isn’t easy and just buying a winner shouldn’t be an option, though I understand wanting to if the rules allow it.  This is supposed to be the game of champion modelers- so be it.  IMO.

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Offline BillLee

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2018, 09:12:45 AM »
If I understood what I read FAI DID enact a BOM bonus point scheme for 2019.  At the last minute somebody pulled out the ‘points’ to it and it was left as a friendly suggestion.  It should be pushed again as a MANDATE.  Building a high-performance take-apart travel airplane isn’t easy and just buying a winner shouldn’t be an option, though I understand wanting to if the rules allow it.  This is supposed to be the game of champion modelers- so be it.  IMO.

Dave
I'll leave it up to Peter Germann to explain that since he was at the meetings in Lausanne where the 5 or 6 folks who can afford to get there  ripped out what the entire F2 Technical Committee voted for.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 12:27:52 PM by BillLee »
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Offline Robby Hunt

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Re: F2B World Championships
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2018, 11:35:21 AM »
If I understood what I read FAI DID enact a BOM bonus point scheme for 2019.  At the last minute somebody pulled out the ‘points’ to it and it was left as a friendly suggestion.  It should be pushed again as a MANDATE.  Building a high-performance take-apart travel airplane isn’t easy and just buying a winner shouldn’t be an option, though I understand wanting to if the rules allow it.  This is supposed to be the game of champion modelers- so be it.  IMO.

Dave

The F2B discussion group voted to have the matter brought up before the F2 committee for a vote and the bonus point section was removed.  It was at no point enacted.


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