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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Trostle on May 12, 2016, 11:36:16 AM
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As I mentioned in my earlier post, the flight scores at the World Championships are being posted near real time. Even though we do not have access to the flight order for in F2B, it has been interesting to watch as each score is posted. The scores are close enough that there could be some shifting of positions as the third round progresses. I was watching last night as scores were being posted for the first and second rounds of the F2B finals. It is not like being there, but since I did not make the trip this year, watching the scores in near real time is interesting.
This will take you to the F2B results:
http://www.cl-wch2016per.org//Results/index.php
Assuming flights will start Friday morning in Perth at 0900, that will be 1900 here in Mountain Standard Time.
(For those not familiar with the F2B procedures at the World Championships, the Finals ranking is based on the two best of the three Finals flights.)
I think we can thank Bill Lee for assisting the Australians with their computerized system they are using for this World Championships.
Best of luck to Orestes, Paul and David. They have already sewn up the F2B Team Championship.
Keith
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The flight order is actually posted for round three, its really convoluted to get to , but I found it sort of by accident,, anyway,
http://www.cl-wch2016per.org//Schedule/PracticeSchedules.php
anyway, looking forward to it, I wish we had an onsite play by play commentary
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In fact I just happened to think, I can likely post a copy version of it to save time,,
looks like Paul is up last,
F2B Final Rounds
Finals Round 3
Time CompID Name Country
09:20 B041 SALOMATIN, Vladimir RUS
09:30 B048 IATSENKO, Andrii UKR
09:40 B053 FITZGERALD, David USA
09:50 B040 GARFUTDINOV, Albert RUS
10:00 B011 YANG, Liu CHN
10:10 B052 HERNANDEZ, Orestes USA
10:20 B029 HIKI, Masaru JPN
10:30 B045 BURGER, Igor SVK
Break
10:50 B019 CHAPOULAUD, Nicolas FRA
11:00 B024 KORNMEIER, Richard GER
11:10 B002 PARISI, Joe AUS
11:20 B010 YANG, Jun CHN
11:30 B026 VALLIERA, Marco ITA
11:40 B017 GAUTHIER, Alexandre FRA
11:50 B051 WALKER, Paul USA
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looking at the weather, it appears that it is supposed to rain this morning ( their morning) from 8 till 10,, but the wind ramps from 7 mph to a high of 12 around 1 pm their time
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looking at the weather, it appears that it is supposed to rain this morning ( their morning) from 8 till 10,, but the wind ramps from 7 mph to a high of 12 around 1 pm their time
So is Perth rain like west-of-the-Cascades rain, where it's just water falling from the sky? Or is it like plains-states rain, where it's water falling from the sky with bright flashes and booms?
(Thunderstorms are the one thing I really miss living here. They're rare enough here that when you hear distant rumbling you run outside to see if you can see flashes, hear where it's coming from, etc. Then you sag in disappointment when it turns out that the storm was in the mountains where you couldn't see it.)
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move over here Tim
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So is Perth rain like west-of-the-Cascades rain, where it's just water falling from the sky? Or is it like plains-states rain, where it's water falling from the sky with bright flashes and booms?
In Perth, the flashes and booms sometimes happen with strong cold fronts, but there's nothing like that around at the moment. The current aviation forecast just mentions a possibility of fog this morning, with no showers until early Saturday. Should be a great day for it, with any luck.
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Skies clear this morning!
Eating brekky now, then out to field.
Could be interesting final day!
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Hope the wind is howling. ;D
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Hope the wind is howling. ;D
If we used the F3A scoring system that could actually be an advantage...
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This has been a most interesting world champs so far with less entries than usual.....51 instead of the 70+, but of course the standard of flying at the top has been very high. The weather has been great so far and the organization from the Aussies has also been excellent. Our practice circles are on a local sports field that was mowed almost to bowling green status so the usual complaint about nowhere to practice was completely removed. The actual competition circles were added to an existing R/C club runway here at Whiteman Park and right next door is a really nice wildlife park. Most evenings we have had visits from a few kangaroo's, and the grass here is well "fertilized" with Roo-poo!
The USA team is really strong and right now it is Orestes that is on top form after winning the world cup last week. I watched David fly such a neat pattern in round 1 yesterday but it looks like the judges here are looking for something more than "neat". Maybe hard, aggressive corners are the order of the day, but who knows?? With one round to go and two scores already in the bag, it looks like the first place will go to Richie Kornmeijer or Igor Burger. Igor's model weighs more than usual due to the added take-apart system for travelling but as per usual he somehow manages to get his models trimmed to perfection. It is going to be a good last round!
I posted a pic of Orestes at the practice field one evening as well as one of myself with New Zealander Loren Nell and the I also got to meet the famous "Uncle Jimby" at the same time. His paint job on his Shark was outstanding.
Keith R
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With one round to go and two scores already in the bag, it looks like the first place will go to Richie Kornmeijer or Igor Burger.
Keith R
Hi Keith,
Wish I could be there to watch this with you.
You made an interesting comment above. Yes, Richie and Igor have strong scores and are in a good position. But one of the scores from the first two rounds for each pilot might be thrown out with a stronger score in this third round. When you look at the current single best score for each of the top pilots, anything can happen with the final placings. It will certainly be an interesting morning for you.
Keith (the other one)
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Skies clear this morning!
Eating brekky now, then out to field.
Could be interesting final day!
It couldn't have lined up better if you wrote the script yourself. Go out with a bang!
Brett
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so is it over?
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Keith doesn't mention that Jimby is wearing a Warriors cap. I'll wager that is the farthest a Warriors cap has traveled from Oracle Arena in Oakland, California (a few miles from where Jim lives). The finish on anything Jim builds will be a show-stopper, look forward to seeing it in person back in California.
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so is it over?
No, but Paul gets the last flight of the WC (and maybe the last big contest flight of his incomparable career since he has said that last year was his last NATs and that this is his last WC bid - of course we will see...).
Brett
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Gosh, I'm on the edge of my chair. I wish they had a camera streaming the video.
Good luck to all of our guys.
Rusty
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How many points is possible for each maneuver in F2B?
I have other questions but will save them for another time and place.
I see there are only 2 inverted laps after the inside loops, so now I understand why the time is 7 rather than 8 minutes.
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In FAI scoring each maneuver is marked between 0 and 10 and a K factor applied. The horizontal square 8 has a K factor of 18. There are 6 inverted laps. The pattern is virtually identical. 7 minutes means accurate fuel measuring for an IC engine.
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How many points is possible for each maneuver in F2B?
I have other questions but will save them for another time and place.
I see there are only 2 inverted laps after the inside loops, so now I understand why the time is 7 rather than 8 minutes.
It's 0-10 points per maneuver with K factors applied to each maneuver. You can calculated the maximum possible - its 10x the K factor and +5 (starting points). Its just like AMA in the sense that there is no "correct" absolute score, but figure a 500 point conventional score is about the equivalent of a 1000 in FAI.
Its the same as AMA in that respect - you still have to do two laps between maneuver for a total of 6 inverted. The only place the FAI pattern differs from the AMA pattern is that you only have to have 1.5 laps after the hourglass and before the overhead 8, where in the AMA you must have a nominal 2.5, otherwise the flying is absolutely the same.
The 7 minutes is not there to take advantage of any pattern differences, it's just shorter. The theory is that this speeds up the contests, but it probably doesn't. At best, it's the same for experts, but ends up taking longer for the less experienced - because if you have even the slightest problem starting, you have to take an attempt. In AMA you have some time to keep trying. I would guess if we used a 7-minute flight time in Intermediate, the rate of attempts or overruns would be 3x what it is now.
Brett
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Gosh, I'm on the edge of my chair. I wish they had a camera streaming the video.
If you think it's stimulating watching it from afar, try actually being *in* one of these sort of big contest situations, like the WC Finals or the NATs Top 5 flyoff. Particularly if you have (or think you have) a good chance of winning. Walking out to the center of the circle, all by yourself, engine running, to pick up the handle for an official flight, is a very unique - and lonely - experience.
Brett
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If you think it's stimulating watching it from afar, try actually being *in* one of these sort of big contest situations, like the WC Finals or the NATs Top 5 flyoff. Particularly if you have (or think you have) a good chance of winning. Walking out to the center of the circle, all by yourself, engine running, to pick up the handle for an official flight, is a very unique - and lonely - experience.
Brett
Oh mercy, yes. It must take a lot of hard earned confidence and some icewater in the veins. At my level, I find I calm down immediately as the plane starts rolling.
I must have searched up some other scoresheet that showed 2 inverted laps after the inside loops. No matter, thanks for the detailed answer.
Rusty
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EDIT 11:00am Perth time
YAY! (http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3015/29/34/60/smiles/651906019.gif)
Orestes moves into 1st place.
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Orestes moves into 1st place.
And has already beat Igor. Ritchie is the next problem, but Paul's fortunes appear to be rising a bit, too. It would take a prodigious flight, but I would be extremely happy about having the last draw in this round - and Ritchie flies second after the break.
Brett
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Yep Igor just moved into 2nd place
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Richard in 3rd
Waiting on one score!
Guaranteed a USA individual for either PW and OH!!!!!
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Are they flying right now?
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Richard in 3rd
Waiting on one score!
Get the "Boom!" ready, this might be the best example you are likely to get.
I like the chances of a USA 1-2-7.
Last flight of the WC, gonna take a 1155 something, but well within the realm of possibility! I have seen this movie several times before, except it happened to me.
Brett
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Are they flying right now?
Yes.
Brett
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Thanks Brett, looks like I'll be staying up a little while yet then. #^
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King Kong will need an 1156.21
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Is Richard one of our stunthangar friends?
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King Kong will need an 1156.21
Can you play the threatening "Jaws" music when the shark is being hunted instead?
Brett
P.S. Yang Jun, 1110 out of nowhere. Unfolding better than expected for Paul, not so good for Dave and making Orestes very nervous.
This is REALLY GOOD STUFF, near real time scoring is a great thing.
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Paul and Orestes' flights popped up on facebook and it looks like it's going to be VERY close!
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Orestes and his camo shorts kicked ass!!
I hope he is wearing them on the podium! Congrats to the team and everyone who put this together and a big fat congrats to Orestes!!!! Way to go man!! Way to go!!!!!!!
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Not that close, as it turns out, but congratulations to World Champion Orestes Hernandez! USA Team Gold going away, too.
Brett
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Great Job Orestes!!!!! New World Champ!
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Congratulations to Orestes and the Home Team! H^^
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It was fun hitting refresh over and over waiting. Big props to the crew for keeping things up to date quickly. Thank you!!
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Yeah it was fun. Good work, guys! Congratulations to the US Team.
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Man, that was a nail biter! Way to go Orestes! And way to hang tough Paul & David! That was fun to watch unfold!
EricV
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Congrats to the entire team! Very well done!
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SIMPLY OUTSTANDING!!!!
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It was fun hitting refresh over and over waiting. Big props to the crew for keeping things up to date quickly. Thank you!!
The live scoring was FAR more compelling that I would have ever expected. I might have been more wound up for this than I am for the same thing in real life.
Brett
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Isn't this great?? I got to shake the new world champs hand a short while ago. What a happy chappy he is! It could not have happened to a nicer guy either.Well...... "Other Keith", you who right and Orestes certainly pulled out all of the stops to get such a great score. The nice thing is that he won with a model that has zero trimming features like lead-outs or rudder fin adjustment. It is also the older version of the Shark and not the latest Shark Ellipse. The USA will also win the team trophy as well, so all-in-all a good day for their team. Think of this......3 world champs in one team. That's hard to beat!
Keith R
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The live scoring was FAR more compelling that I would have ever expected.
Brett
One neat thing on the near real time scoring is that it showed the totals for each flyer at their respective position as each flight was finished. We did not have to scan the whole score sheet to see who was leading who. Same as to the team standings as well.
Vivid contrast in years past when scores were not available until late in the day, sometimes not delivered to the Team Managers until like midnight.
Many kudos to Bill Lee who was instrumental to make this happen.
Keith
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Congratulations to the USA Team !!!!!
Vamos Orestes todavia !!!!! Un orgullo e inspiracion para todos tus hermanos latinos !!!!!
:) :)!
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Congratulations to Orestes, Paul, and David. Well earned.
What a team, 3 World and Nat's Champs........
Congratulations again;
Larry
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Well Done Team USA!!!!
Congrats Orestes on your first World Championship!
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Congratulations Orestes, World Cup and world champ Champion!! I knew you could do it!!
Congratulations to team USA on the team win as well! I know that I and everyone on this forum are extremely proud to have had all of you guys represent us!!
Derek
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Congratulations to our team! Orestes your many tireless hours of practice have paid out well for you. A well deserved win!
Dave
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Congratulations to Orestes and team USA!!!!!
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Congrats US Team Orestes, Paul and Dave!
Martin
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Congratulations Orestes !!!
I knew you could do it "World Champion"
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There's nothing more exciting than watching OUR guys getting it done!! I excho the comments about THREE world champs on the USA team! And a special congrats to the new world champion, may this be only the first of several, just like your other team mates.
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How cool is this?
Orestes has never, ever asked for my help or opinion on anything concerning his program.
This does not mean we are not friends, we get along very well but it does mean that he has done everything "his way" with what has proven to be a very successful system of dedication and hard work.
At the level these guys compete at----- this win is especially sweet!
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y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1
Congratulations guy's.
H^^ H^^ H^^
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Marvelous!
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Way to go Orestes and team USA!
Congrats to Igor and Richard as well!
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Congrats to Orestes as he has worked hard to get this far and finally make it. Congrats to the USA team as it looked like they finally did it up right for this modern era.
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Way to go, guys!!!
What a team! And Igor and others, as always excellent. I think that any of these guys could have made the top - just a spectacular array of talent. I loved reading along with the scoring. It sounds as though everyone was a champ, on and off the circles, in producing this spectacular contest. The land of Oz is looking as magical as can be.
SK
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CONGRATULATIONS Orestes!!!
And, congratulations to Team USA for bringing home the gold!
After having competed in the Team Trial in Houston, I had no
doubt that this was a very strong USA team.
Steve
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Way to go guys... Congratulations! to the entire USA team and their helpers #^ #^ a job well done.
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Congratulations Orestes and Team USA! The scores say that the competition was fierce.
Pat
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Congrats to all! Has anyone come across any video yet? Please share if you do.
Thanks,
Tom
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Congrats to all! Has anyone come across any video yet? Please share if you do.
Thanks,
Tom
How about some photos. H^^
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Igor's model weighs more than usual due to the added take-apart system for travelling but as per usual he somehow manages to get his models trimmed to perfection. It is going to be a good last round!
Yes it was heavier, but in that thick air it did not make any probles, and also when I istalled my light battery (yes Paul my Zippy :- ))) ) which arrived 3 days later from Abu Dhabi, It was all solved. The real problem for me was, that model had 3 weeks when I arrived. I decided not to fly Perth, but later "someone changed my mind" and after return from SF USA in february I started building so I flew with model which was only 3 weeks old and only basically trimmed and every evening after contest I did few trim chages for next contest day. Well .. I had to trim one day more to get 2 points more and get Orestes :-P ... the lesson learned, you must prepare earlier if you want win :-P
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Well .. I had to trim one day more to get 2 points more and get Orestes
But Orestes would have gotten in 100 more practice flights in that day.
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Hmm ... that is also true, I had probably only 5 practice flights in "final trim" after all :-P ... so I see I must start building model for France right now
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Congratulations to USA team :)
For me was pleasure to see flights of each one of you on this world champ.
I 've seen some remarkable flights of Igor, David Fitzgerelad and Paul Walker in strong wind and rain : ) More over because Igor and Paul were flying electric, but Dave not :) Still getting a heartbeat remembering how models almost touch the ground : )heheeh
Actually Igor's one did once.....:P
Greetings and smile to all : )
See you soon
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Hmm ... that is also true, I had probably only 5 practice flights in "final trim" after all :-P ... so I see I must start building model for France right now
Igor, in what year did you place 7th at the Worlds with your OS MAX LA 46 powered Next?
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Do you mean this?
(http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/stunt/images/max013.jpg)
It is my Max II not "Next". I had it in Sebnitz 2002, I placed 10th.
http://www.go-cl.se/wch02-f2b.html
It was my first WCh. Before I was team manager for our guys and did not fly because I worked long time in germany and did not have time for practice. That model I did in high school workshop with Christoph Holterman. The same model was later converted to electric and I used it till 2008 Landres where it finished 2nd. And still hinging on my wall and last year it was used by young man Leotong from china on ECh (after he crashed his model) - that boy is currently junior world champ from Perth :- ))
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The Next was predecesor of Maxes without logarithmic flaps, it was my first "calculated" models using my program for aerodynamic analyze and also first model with my airfoil. But I flew it only on local contests, because I did not have time for WCh or Ech. The Max line was extracted from Next with smaller wing for light power train with piped OS maxes to keep proper wing load.
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/stunt/thenext.htm
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Do you mean this?
(http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/stunt/images/max013.jpg)
It is my Max II not "Next". I had it in Sebnitz 2002, I placed 10th.
http://www.go-cl.se/wch02-f2b.html
It was my first WCh. Before I was team manager for our guys and did not fly because I worked long time in germany and did not have time for practice. That model I did in high school workshop with Christoph Holterman. The same model was later converted to electric and I used it till 2008 Landres where it finished 2nd. And still hinging on my wall and last year it was used by young man Leotong from china on ECh (after he crashed his model) - that boy is currently junior world champ from Perth :- ))
Yes, this is the plane. This is when I started studying your work on your Website. You made time lapse videos of this plane showing flap lift at various AOA. You would eventually convert this plane to electric I believe.
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Yes, I needed verify calculations, so I filmed tightest corner as allowed by flap unit and compared to calculation, it was very close, so I knew that I have usefull numbers.
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Yes, I needed verify calculations, so I filmed tightest corner as allowed by flap unit and compared to calculation, it was very close, so I knew that I have usefull numbers.
At the time, I didn't understand why you didn't kit the plane, given the VERY large number of LA 46's that were, and are in use. You are the only person to my knowledge, that has been able to develop a world class stunter for the ubiquitous LA 46. The construction was very simple and quite logical, which in my opinion, would have been ideal for large scale kitting.
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I wasn't at home that time I worked in Germany and was happy that Christoph H. allowed me to work with him. I did that model on purpose, because several our flyers told me that US engines were too expensive (I flew PAs from randy in "Next"). We had problem with enough flyers so I told them that "the engine" is not what gives points, so I did Os Max model. Also "Max" name comes from usage of os max. I had 2 such models and I NEVER needed to deinstall tank for shimming or remove motor for maintanance. They both worked flawlessly and I was very happy with that. However most pilots did not like fact that model did not have classic cowl. BTW as far as I remember also Todd Lee flew in Sebnitz OS powered plane, but I do not remember details anymore.
But planes were available and later dady of Richie K. contacted me to develop model for his son (Richie). I spent with them some time (I worked close to them) and I developed model that time called "Max 60" for ST 60 especially for young boy and large ST 60 with limited handle forces and that model was build in large number and is used by Richie till now also in electric versions. Also our Alex S. (2nd from WCh Bulgaria) uses that model little modified for him till now.
the Max Bee is nothing else only the same Max II with improved fuselage for electric so I was able to use that long nose allowing better side forces for better behavior in wind and turbulence. And also wing went to place where I wanted it and not where pipe dictates. Some people tried to make kits, but so far I do not know if it was succesfull, because I did not see any offers.
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Yes, Americans do favor the traditional removable cowl. Although, I think your setup is simpler and better. Less problems and easier to choke.