Everyone is an engineer

[RC Storick]

Everyone of us is an engineer in their own right. The difference between some is piratical experience. I like what one member said about a formula Bob Hunt had taught him. (TLAR) That looks about right. Trust me on this after building hundreds of planes if it doesn't look like it will work it most likely won't! Reynolds numbers and other engineering terms and equations are great fun but mean little to me in the construction of a model airplane. Try and remember these are just toys "No ones life depends on your calculations"

While winning a national championship or a world title would be great, face only a few are going to do so in their life. Just the way it is. But if you were a national champ or even world champ its only something to us in our small community. In the great scope of things its still just TOY Airplanes. They're fun and have taught me a life time of skill I use in everyday tasks.

What I am driving at is I have a dry sense humor.

[proparc]

WELL SAID ROBERT!!  I ALWAYS LOOK AT THE CONSIDERABLE CAPABILITIES MODEL AVIATION HAS GIVEN ME OTHER THAN JUST HOW I PLACED AT A CONTEST.

EVERTHING FROM COLLEGE DEGREES TO DESIGNING AND BUILDING MY OWN COMPUTERS, TO FIXING MY OWN TOILET, I OWE TO MODEL AVIATION.

[phil c]

TLAR works when you(or somebody) has crashed quite a few planes trying to figure out what "about right" is.  If you want to try something outside the norm working the engineering numbers can get you close a lot quicker than building planes.

[RC Storick]

OK 

[hoythawkins]

Let me say this about that....the flamiclattus caused the schitzenfranc to create turbulance near the gogglinsprock, ergo, ergo, and ergo it went until the claridally of the donchudare crossed the vector of the musintouch and discentagrated.

But it is till a toy airplane. 

Hawk

[airbrush]

heh, I've always kinda liked the TLAR method myself, but lately as society
has progressed (an argument I'm sure) .... I've started usin' the SWAG method.
 .. Scienticfic Wild Assed Guess.
 I think the two systems are related, heh one may have even sprung from the
other....
 airbrush
james.

[Windwalker]

Let me say this about that....the flamiclattus caused the schitzenfranc to create turbulance near the gogglinsprock, ergo, ergo, and ergo it went until the claridally of the donchudare crossed the vector of the musintouch and discentagrated.

But it is till a toy airplane. 

Hawk

You left out one important factor... None of that can happen until the thermidactitrien and the endoweizenkrakk intersect below the ladenswallowchirp...    

Nick

[Alan Hahn]

By "piratical" experience, I assume you mean that some of us have learned to steal better than others?

[Mark Scarborough]

I think that perchance the reference was directed more at the ciruitous routing of the array of observable phenonemum as directed by carefull observation of test subjects and their implimentation of a varied schedule of techniques and methodology as noted by the elaborate listing of same in aformentioned experimental and practical enviroments. The carefull consideration and examination of said experimental and practicall applications thereof can be considered an effective and rational approach to design study and engineering expertise.

(in otherwords, if it works steal it! If it dont, tell everyone else it does!)

[Bill Gruby]

here goes nuttin--------as I see it, the book or numbers approach to something is based on someone elses findings.This causes a problem, INTERPRETATION, everyone is different. Whereas TLAR and SWAG are based on time honored PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

You can despute this till the cows come home, but PERSONAL EXPERIENCE will win out every time. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING beats trial and error. This is based on years of playing with "TOY AIRPLANES". Everything looks good on paper but it still needs to be tried. Remember this, you can read but that airplane you are building can't, when completed it may just have a mind of it's own.

OK with that said please remember it is a PERSONAL OPINION, treat it as such.

  HB~>Bill Gruby

[Mark Scarborough]

but in a serious note, I think that it is dependent upon the individual. Myself I like to delve into the numbers to the extent I am able to understand them. Then use what I think I understand to impliment in my work. Others are more comfortable using a more direct approach, (um ok so maybe its easier to say they copy) But as has been said, being copied is a high form of praise. Thats the great thing here in this hobby, room for all of us!

[Bill Gruby]

SOMEHOW I EXPECTED AN EARTH SHATTERING KABOOM   

I'm having to much fun, I'm going to bed NITE NITE


Bill Gruby

[RC Storick]

here goes nuttin--------as I see it, the book or numbers approach to something is based on someone elses findings.This causes a problem, INTERPRETATION, everyone is different. Whereas TLAR and SWAG are based on time honored PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

You can despute this till the cows come home, but PERSONAL EXPERIENCE will win out every time. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING beats trial and error. This is based on years of playing with "TOY AIRPLANES". Everything looks good on paper but it still needs to be tried. Remember this, you can read but that airplane you are building can't, when completed it may just have a mind of it's own.

OK with that said please remember it is a PERSONAL OPINION, treat it as such.

  HB~>Bill Gruby

Case in point is Bill Werwage. IMO the best designer of stunt planes. I wounder how much schooling he had to make all sorts of configurations work? If I am not mistaken he is a musician. Nothing is new! He will admit he has stolen ideas from others. Smart business I think. Everyone is stealing some idea from someone. There really are no new concepts for anything. Just refining of old ideas.

Teleportation? Solid air? Laser beams? All buck rogers stuff? or maybe Leonardo's stuff?

[Bill Gruby]

I,m 100% on your side Robert. If it wasn't for this type of peoples experimentation we wouldn't be where we are today. 

Bill Gruby

[RC Storick]

Speaking of solid air. Has anyone seen this? I saw it on the Discovery channel. They use it for insulation for space craft. It is transparent and has body,it is slightly heavier than air. If a guy could get it from NASA and mold it to an airframe then paint it, The plane would only be as heavy as the hardware and the paint. Too Cool!!

Solid air is no joke. It is real! view here.

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html

It is 99.8% Air

Provides 39 times more insulating than the best fiberglass insulation

Is 1,000 times less dense than glass

Was used on the Mars Pathfinder rover

[RC Storick]

or this stuff..
Aerogel is not like conventional foams, but is a special porous material with extreme microporosity on a micron scale. It is composed of individual features only a few nanometers in size. These are linked in a highly porous dendritic-like structure.



Now the thought of making a stunt plane out of this stuff is a new idea. But to get the stuff would be almost impossible! It was not my idea to make the stuff but I would put it to good use if you know what I mean (if I could get it).

Space age technology will take modeling to the next level of performance just like CF and Kevlar did.

[don Burke]

TLAR works when you(or somebody) has crashed quite a few planes trying to figure out what "about right" is.  If you want to try something outside the norm working the engineering numbers can get you close a lot quicker than building planes.

My first college class session of Airplane Design opened with the professor stating that,"The most important factor in airplane design is, 'IF IT LOOKS GOOD, IT WILL FLY'".  The ugly models I've built since then all flew ugly, nuff said!

[GWH]

Well, I am not an Aeronautical Engineer, But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

What we need building today?

I am part of the TLAR clan.

[Charlie Pate]

Engineers NEVER make mistakes; They just change their mind!

[Bill Little]

Engineers NEVER make mistakes; They just change their mind!

I still use a mule cart.

Bill <><

[Windwalker]

I still use a mule cart.

Bill <><

Hmmm... My cart is oxen powered.. Can I borrow your idea??    


Nick

[roger gebhart]

Get it done.  set it down and look at it. If it doesn't look right it probably isn't. Now ya gotta figure out why

[Bill Little]

Hmmm... My cart is oxen powered.. Can I borrow your idea??    


Nick

Nick....... there is a LONG story, going back a few years as to the "mule cart", especially with Sir Charlie of Pate.  It involves a quote that my Grandfather (my Dad's Dad who raised me) used to use: "Don't worry 'bout the mule goin' blind, 'til you get the cart loaded".  Many, many, of the young'uns don't understand what it means.

I think we ran over Charlie with the mule cart, up in the mountains, back when he was much younger.