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Author Topic: Engine choice for Vector arf  (Read 3625 times)

Offline Matt Brown

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Engine choice for Vector arf
« on: April 23, 2021, 08:05:08 PM »
I picked up a new Vector arf last week. Trying to decide on an engine for it. I have 25FP, 40FP, 40FP with Gardner piston and liner or 46LA. If something like the brodak 40 is noticeably better, I’m not opposed to buying one.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks, Matt

Offline Dan Berry

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2021, 08:08:32 PM »
You're hard-pressed to beat the LA46 out of those choices.

Online Matt Colan

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2021, 10:59:35 PM »
LA 46 without question
Matt Colan

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2021, 11:19:41 PM »
The 40 FP & the LA 46 have thae same footprint , NVA posn. etc.

Only the ole for the ead is not eyedentacal . Ahem .

The Master 11 x 5 seems a good set up / trial prop . So you can see if theres something better than that ' base line ' after if youre inclined .

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 11:28:37 PM »
Here's another vote for the LA46, clearly the best among the engines listed. I flew a kit-built Vector with an LA46 for several years. A 5-pitch is too much. Have a look at the "LA46 setup" at top of Engine section. APC 11.5 x 4 or 12.25 x 3.75 are ideal for this engine. You probably already know this, but don't try to run it like engines from 50 years ago. It wants to rev. The LA46 will pull a small-ish plane like that through the pattern with almost no break and at a consistent speed, almost like a piped engine.

Offline Dave Harmon

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2021, 11:39:41 PM »
I would be the last guy to disagree with some of the names I see here.....But....in my experience....
I have been flying the Vector ARF for 2 years now with the Brodak 40 and it has plenty of power to fly the full schedule.
The airplane was designed for the B-40 and it drops perfectly into the mounts without hacking the mounts wider to fit a physically larger engine.
I use a Brodak wide wedge 4oz uniflow tank with no muffler pressure.....the engine runs a nice 4-2-4 break.
No wheel pants.
Also I don't use the Brodak muffler....I use the 'chip' (tongue) muffler from RSM, supplied venturi, 59' .016" lines.
With this setup it is nose heavy so a bit of weight is needed on the tail....actually I prefer to fly it a bit nose heavy.
Follow the break in instructions that come with the B-40 and it will run great on GMA fuel.
Use a Thunderbolt R/C long plug.

https://www.mikegoesflying.com/shop/engine-accessories/glow-plugs/thunderbolt-rc-long-glow-plug-with-idle-bar/

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2021, 11:50:41 PM »
I have been flying the Vector ARF for 2 years now with the Brodak 40 and it has plenty of power to fly the full schedule.
The airplane was designed for the B-40 and it drops perfectly into the mounts without hacking the mounts wider to fit a physically larger engine.

     I don't have one, but have seen a ton of them. There is a pretty large range of variation in Brodak 40s and from batch to batch there seems to be pretty signifcant variations.

   I doubt that the airplane was designed for the Brodak 40 - I think the design predates Brodak as a company, and almost certainly was around before there was a Brodak 40, maybe as early as 1995ish?

     Brett

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2021, 06:27:33 AM »
Something that hasn't been mentioned — and this comment is based on examples from the first run of Vector 40s — engine length.

The FP 40 and the LA 46 are the same length and with the engine back against the firewall, the crank overhang dictates one of two solutions in order to have a reasonable and not excessive gap between the fuselage and the back of the spinner.

Solution 1 — use a spinner with a recess in the backplate like the Dubro.

Solution 2 — add a 1/8" lite ply nose ring.

The Brodak 40 is shorter than the FP and LA but uses the same mounting bolt spacing. I believe that the Brodak 40 is a drop-in replacement for the OS stunt 35.

Offline Fred Quedenfeld jr

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2021, 06:51:00 AM »
Randy smith Vector   57 inch wing span   630  square inch
Brodak Vector 40      50.5 inch span         536 square inch
NOT the same plane

Fred Q

Offline Dave Harmon

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2021, 07:31:50 AM »
     I don't have one, but have seen a ton of them. There is a pretty large range of variation in Brodak 40s and from batch to batch there seems to be pretty signifcant variations.

    Brett

Just like guitars, race cars and airplanes.....setup of the B-40 is everything.

First.....the backplate ears will distort (you can see it) and the gasket will leak if tightened too tight.
I don't overtighten these 3 screws and use blue Loctite on the screws.
The backplate can be installed incorrectly....be sure the ears line up correctly with the crankcase.

The spraybar holes are drilled slightly off center so when looking directly down the intake rotate the spraybar so that the holes are not visible at all.

The spraybar sucks air where it goes through the venturi so wrap plumbers Teflon tape around the spraybar under the nuts.

The needle valve sucks air too.....put a piece of fuel line over it.

Make sure the glowplug is not leaking...put some fuel on top of the head and hold the prop at top dead center and watch for bubbles around the plug....tighten as needed or replace the washer.
These washers are slightly cupped and when new should be installed with the cup facing the engine so the plug flattens out the washer and you get a good seal.

Now the next thing some guy is gonna say that they are not gonna screw around with this engine for these reasons.....too much hassle bla bla..
Come to Tulsa and you can fly it....runs great....takes about an hour to do the job.

About the Vector being designed for the B-40....originally probably not but the current version of this ARF is designed/configured so the B-40 drops right in without any mods or hacking.

My only real complaint is that this ARF has a Z bend on the bell crank.
Not on MY airplane!
I replace that gnarly little wire with a .110 carbon rod.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2021, 11:01:43 AM »
Just FYI  to clear up about the engine, I designed 2 Vectors  one is 57.5 inch  wing span,designed in 1985  for a  46 to 51,  The Vector 40 I designed back in the late 80s, it was designed  for 32 to 40 engines of no specific brand, but I setup many Magnum and TT 36s for this plane, Dondi Garrison won many  Nats, and other Titles  with a Vector 40 and a Thunder Tiger Built Magnum 36 that I converted to CL,  So many engine will work in the  Vector 40 as they have been flying this plane  for years, Mag36  Webra 36  TT  36 FP 35 , 40   LA  40 46, Brodak 40 works  very well  in this plane, others have used an older  ST 40 - 46  in it. There were many that  used a side to rear conversion with a CF tuned pipe.  So you have a lot of options,  The  BRODAK 40 and  LA  46 maybe the most used  engine  in the  Vector 40.  Of course  the  ultimate  in my opinion  is  the  Aero Tiger,  some  others  are using  my  OS  35 AX  as a replacement
This smaller  40 series of these  have  sister ships, The  SV-40  Dreadnought 40, and Tempest 40.

Randy
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 02:17:51 PM by RandySmith »

Offline Matt Brown

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2021, 01:18:35 PM »
Looks like my older LA46 will be my choice for my Vector. No sense spending money when I have something perfectly suitable. Should get started on assembly tomorrow.

Thanks for all the support.
Matt

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2021, 02:17:21 PM »
Hey Matt,
  I had 2 and loved the LA 46 vector arf combo. I thought it was a great setup.

Tom
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2021, 02:29:57 PM »
Looks like my older LA46 will be my choice for my Vector. No sense spending money when I have something perfectly suitable. Should get started on assembly tomorrow.

  I think that is probably a good choice. The ARFs seem to be pretty routinely in the low-mid 50 ounce range and I have flown them powered by as much as a PA65.   I would think it could pretty easily be built to mid 40's is you did it yourself, and I have seen "from plans" or maybe kit versions flown with Fox 35s and large-case 40's, and that worked well.

     Brett

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2021, 08:19:59 PM »
The Vector 40 I designed back in the late 80s, it was designed  for 32 to 40 engines of no specific brand, but I setup many Magnum and TT 36s for this plane, Dondi Garrison won many  Nats, and other Titles  with a Vector 40 and a Thunder Tiger Built Magnum 36 t

    As I recall, really little Dondi flew the 35-size one (with two hands!), and didn't little Derek fly the 630 square inch version for a while?

   Brett

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2021, 09:51:24 PM »
    As I recall, really little Dondi flew the 35-size one (with two hands!), and didn't little Derek fly the 630 square inch version for a while?

   Brett

    I remember seeing some little urchin flying some practice at the Lawrenceville Airport at a early 90's NATS flying with both hands and almost being lifted off his feet in the overheads!! I always thought the was a young Derrik Barry, Bu t I think he corrected me and said that was Dondi Garrison. It was fun and inspiring to watch him. Didn't look like he was afraid of it at all at that age!
   Type at you later,
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2021, 05:33:11 PM »
We've got about 6,flying in the WAMS, Williamsburg Aero Modelers Society, all fly with LA .46's and all fly beautifully and reliably. I've had mine flying for over 12 years with the same LA .46 and it just keeps getting better and better! This time of year 7.5% Nitro with 11/11 fuel is the ticket. Once we get to the 95% humidity with 97 degree temps we'll switch to 10 11/11! Recommend a 4.5 ounce tank and adjust for climate variations.

Phil Spillman 
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Offline Daniel_Munro

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2021, 12:06:35 PM »
I reckon the LA46 would suit it nicely. Though if the FP40 with the Gardner P/L set runs nice id probably go with that.
NZL7396

Offline Dave Harmon

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2021, 11:20:36 PM »
I'll admit when I had the Brodak 40 on my Vector 40 it was one of my first stunt planes and I had no idea how to set it up. Didn't know how to trim out the plane or fly it either.

Motorman 8)

Thats OK Motor......believe me...my B-40's didn't run correctly either but I dogged them until I figured out what to do to get good runs from them.

Offline Don Chandler

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2021, 02:30:32 PM »
I have an OS 40 LA in mine and it does very well.

Offline Kafin Noe’man

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2022, 06:11:41 PM »
Just FYI  to clear up about the engine, I designed 2 Vectors  one is 57.5 inch  wing span,designed in 1985  for a  46 to 51,  The Vector 40 I designed back in the late 80s, it was designed  for 32 to 40 engines of no specific brand, but I setup many Magnum and TT 36s for this plane, Dondi Garrison won many  Nats, and other Titles  with a Vector 40 and a Thunder Tiger Built Magnum 36 that I converted to CL,  So many engine will work in the  Vector 40 as they have been flying this plane  for years, Mag36  Webra 36  TT  36 FP 35 , 40   LA  40 46, Brodak 40 works  very well  in this plane, others have used an older  ST 40 - 46  in it. There were many that  used a side to rear conversion with a CF tuned pipe.  So you have a lot of options,  The  BRODAK 40 and  LA  46 maybe the most used  engine  in the  Vector 40.  Of course  the  ultimate  in my opinion  is  the  Aero Tiger,  some  others  are using  my  OS  35 AX  as a replacement
This smaller  40 series of these  have  sister ships, The  SV-40  Dreadnought 40, and Tempest 40.

Randy

Hi Randy,

I just got myself a Brodak Vector 40 ARF which I’m planning to put ENYA SS40 BB with 11x4 prop at the nose.
Will this combination work well?

Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thank you!


Best,
Kafin
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I fly: Vector, Cardinal, XEBEC, and Banshee

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2022, 12:40:17 AM »
Is Vector 40 nostalgia 30 eligible?

Offline Craig Beswick

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2022, 12:55:11 AM »
Randy said earlier in the thread he designed it in the late 80s.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2022, 07:26:58 AM »
Kafin:

Excellent choice for moving into pattern flying.  It is both maneuverable and gentle.  I flew a borrowed one for the first year after losing my "fleet" to a fire.

Ken
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Offline Kafin Noe’man

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2022, 08:32:09 AM »
Kafin:

Excellent choice for moving into pattern flying.  It is both maneuverable and gentle.  I flew a borrowed one for the first year after losing my "fleet" to a fire.

Ken

Great!
Thank you Ken.

Can’t wait to recieve my Vector 40
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Offline Davidf2d

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2022, 01:51:17 PM »
Is there enough clearance with the kit landing gear for the LA46 size props?
I've got a Vector 40 kit, bought it for the Brodak 40 but been having problems with inconsistent runs.   Wondering about building it for the LA46.

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2022, 03:30:32 PM »
I have an OS 40 LA in mine. I did not build the plane but purchased it from a guy. With everything mounted my Vector 40 weighs in at 64 oz. Pretty heavy model. Will initially try a 12-4 prop and see how she flies.

Offline Craig Beswick

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2022, 03:49:57 PM »
Is there enough clearance with the kit landing gear for the LA46 size props?
I've got a Vector 40 kit, bought it for the Brodak 40 but been having problems with inconsistent runs.   Wondering about building it for the LA46.

David,
good question. I ran a 46 in mine, took off the wheel pants and changed the wheels to 2 1/2"! No problems.

Craig
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: Engine choice for Vector arf
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2022, 06:16:16 PM »
Hi Randy,

I just got myself a Brodak Vector 40 ARF which I’m planning to put ENYA SS40 BB with 11x4 prop at the nose.
Will this combination work well?

Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thank you!


Best,
Kafin

Hi Kafin

the  Enya should work well, but it is a little  heavy , so just be aware of that and get  the balance  right 
Randy


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