stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Phil Spillman on September 05, 2023, 04:05:20 PM
-
Is there any difference in strength between Elmer's Glue All and Elmer's School Glue? Regarding their usage in construction of model airplanes?
Phil Spillman
-
personally, I would be afraid of the "school" glue, if I remember right, it is a bit thinner than the regular. To be honest, I left Elmers years ago for Titebond III, it's my all time favorite aliphetic resin.
-
t's all explained on the Google!
-
Is there any difference in strength between Elmer's Glue All and Elmer's School Glue? Regarding their usage in construction of model airplanes?
Phil Spillman
Hi Phil,
I agree with Will about the school Glue. I started using Elmer's Glue All when I spent a few days with Tom Morris at his house building some Cavaliers. That was all he used. I have used Titebond like Will and it works great as well. I think either way you will be good.
Mike
-
Is there any difference in strength between Elmer's Glue All and Elmer's School Glue? Regarding their usage in construction of model airplanes?
I would not use either. Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue or Titebond (original) are not much more expensive, also non-toxic and much superior an adhesive.
Brett
-
Well , here in Australia , just to annoy me , personally , you can no longer get Elmers Wood Glue .
But the supermarkets have Elmers everything else glues . So we may well give it a go . Thanks .
-
I forgot to mention as Brett pointed out, I use the original Titebond. Also forgot to mention, as Ty pointed out, that Tom did dilute the white Elmers glue a little for that reason. I shy away from CA (although it is great in certain applications) simply because the fumes from it burns the Hell out of my eyes.
Mike
-
Just last week, I had a Free Flight guy recommend SIGbond, saying it was easier to sand than Titebond. I don't think he is aware of Titebond III, and I have doubts about being able to order anything from SIG, especially stuff related to actually building a model airplane. R%%%% Steve
-
I used to use Elmer's glue. It worked OK, but I like Titebond II better. Water cleanup and non-toxic are two of the benefits of these adhesives.
Titebond III is waterproof which does not help in model building. On that note I used Titebond II on a privacy fence repair and it DID melt the first time it rains. So use III if water could be an issue.
-
I use Elmers Glue All for most of my construction. Straight out of the jug. I use glue bottles from Hobby Lobby that have a long spout on them. I also use CA for putting parts together . Even use Ambroid when I can get it for joints. I guess I had the wrong Tite Bond as I didn't like the way it sanded. D>K
-
Obviously each has his own experience but I'll never use ANY of these 'white' glues again other than fixing a chair. I tried them on two new airplanes I built a few years ago with the drop-drop-drop method. One of them came apart at the Team Trials in the air when most the glue joints all let go under stress and vibration. These glues barely attach themselves to the balsa with little penetration. The airplane was all built up with a fully sheeted skin. The second airplane? I could never trust it so eventually scrapped it out. When the Sigment well ran dry ( still have a small stash) I tried a fabric cement from Aircraft Spruce. It's thinner than Sigment but otherwise about the same. It soaks in very well and may require some double gluing but builds very much lighter than Sigment or anything else. You could very easily mistake it for the original Ambroid- even the color. I did use the Titebond full strength. I don't now care to try it watered down......
Dave
-
Obviously each has his own experience but I'll never use ANY of these 'white' glues again other than fixing a chair. I tried them on two new airplanes I built a few years ago with the drop-drop-drop method. One of them came apart at the Team Trials in the air when most the glue joints all let go under stress and vibration. These glues barely attach themselves to the balsa with little penetration. The airplane was all built up with a fully sheeted skin. The second airplane? I could never trust it so eventually scrapped it out. When the Sigment well ran dry ( still have a small stash) I tried a fabric cement from Aircraft Spruce. It's thinner than Sigment but otherwise about the same. It soaks in very well and may require some double gluing but builds very much lighter than Sigment or anything else. You could very easily mistake it for the original Ambroid- even the color. I did use the Titebond full strength. I don't now care to try it watered down......
Dave
Dave, can you explain what you mean by the drop-drop-drop method?
-
Dave, can you explain what you mean by the drop-drop-drop method?
Yes I'll try. Simply, rather than apply a continuous bead of glue along a rib for example, you put a drop of glue, then a space-maybe 1/4"-then another drop etc. The idea is to save weight and help prevent the starved horse look through the sheeting when glue shrinks and pulls the wood down around the rib. It works OK as long as the glue grips the wood well.
Dave
-
When the Sigment well ran dry ( still have a small stash) I tried a fabric cement from Aircraft Spruce. It's thinner than Sigment but otherwise about the same. It soaks in very well and may require some double gluing but builds very much lighter than Sigment or anything else. You could very easily mistake it for the original Ambroid- even the color.
Dave
Can you tell us which brand? It may be available through Wicks Aircraft, as well, and Sparky was able to wrangle a 10% discount for us.
Steve
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
-
Can you tell us which brand? It may be available through Wicks Aircraft, as well, and Sparky was able to wrangle a 10% discount for us.
Steve
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
It's called Fab-Tac fabric cement. I've used a pint then ordered a gallon. Both labels look as though it is private labeled for Aircraft Spruce but I dunno....It is pretty thin so I got a plastic squeeze bottle you would use for catsup or BBQ sauce and attached a small glue tip to the end.
Dave
-
There is the nitrocellulose AM-DROID Cement from Volare Products which is reported to be very much like Ambroid.
https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product=vps-am-droid-cement
-
Yes I'll try. Simply, rather than apply a continuous bead of glue along a rib for example, you put a drop of glue, then a space-maybe 1/4"-then another drop etc. The idea is to save weight and help prevent the starved horse look through the sheeting when glue shrinks and pulls the wood down around the rib. It works OK as long as the glue grips the wood well.
But that also leads to local glue starvation, meaning the joint is not complete, and also, where it does make a good bond, it greatly increases the local load on the wood, which is the weak part of the joint. It will also lead to "zippering" where the first dot/glue rivet fails it will load the next one then the next with ever-increasing load.
Even Elmer's white glue/"Glue All" is much stronger than balsa.
Brett
-
There is the nitrocellulose AM-DROID Cement from Volare Products which is reported to be very much like Ambroid.
https://volareproducts.com/blog/?product=vps-am-droid-cement
Also, this:
https://www.amazon.com/UHU-HART-ADHESIVE-MODELLING-CEMENT/dp/B00L9HI16I
or this:
https://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-Multi-Purpose-Household-Glue/dp/B0000A605H
These two are more-or-less identical to SIG-Ment. Dave's "starved horse" concern will be much worse with any sort of nitrocellulose cement. Water-based glue like Titebond is much less prone to this, CyA is even less prone to it, epoxy almost immune and only shrinks a tiny bit.
Brett
-
But that also leads to local glue starvation, meaning the joint is not complete, and also, where it does make a good bond, it greatly increases the local load on the wood, which is the weak part of the joint. It will also lead to "zippering" where the first dot/glue rivet fails it will load the next one then the next with ever-increasing load.
Even Elmer's white glue/"Glue All" is much stronger than balsa.
Brett
I think I'd call what happened a strip tease rather than zippering....I'm sure the glue itself IS strong but it didn't matter when it wouldn't stick to the wood. I still dot the cement mostly and so far no issues. It keeps me from over applying the glue which seems a natural trait. Sure gave Richard (RO) a startle with the very loud pop over his head twice as I entered and exited the wingover . I flew out the tank and landed with about 30 degrees of dihedral...
Dave
-
The bottle of the Elmers glue all is made in the USA haven't had a problem with it. The school glue is made in China, I won't buy it. I loved SIG wood glue as it is easy to sand down too, harder to find now.
-
Hi Guy’s,
I’m now out of glue, used my last bottle of PICA glue it (crap), Has anyone found a replacement brand like it? It works very well on balsa and or foam, and even on plywood & hardwood. Years ago I bought all the remaining glue I could find around town, now most of the hobby shops have gone away as well.
Mike Pratt
-
Didn't I read somewhere here on SH that guys liked the LMI Instrument Makers glue? If so....buy it up while you can....LMI is closing for good in the near future.
-
Didn't I read somewhere here on SH that guys liked the LMI Instrument Makers glue? If so....buy it up while you can....LMI is closing for good in the near future.
The original stuff (identical to PICA Gluit) is long gone, as far as I can tell. The stuff they have been selling recently is Titebond, or something nearly identical to it. Which is still good, but you can get Titebond anywhere for dirt cheap.
Brett
-
Thinks Bret,
I was sure someone would have the answer to that, Titebond original or Titebond II?
What you building this winter, any plans yet? I’ve got a few projects going but mostly in CAD drawings right now but hope to start cutting wood soon, beware the “Strike Force”.
Later,
Mike Pratt
-
Thinks Bret,
I was sure someone would have the answer to that, Titebond original or Titebond II?
What you building this winter, any plans yet? I’ve got a few projects going but mostly in CAD drawings right now but hope to start cutting wood soon, beware the “Strike Force”.
Later,
Mike Pratt
I just get the original Titebond (1), which seems to be the same thing as it was in the 60's. But to avoid any confusion at all, this is NOT the same as PICA Gluit/LMI Instrument makers glue. or at least not the kind you like. That was discontinued about 10-15 years ago.
What LMI currently sells is much like Titebond (1) or Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue, which is probably much better as an adhesive than PICA Gluit, but doesn't sand as well. Their little glue applicator is probably worth getting, the "mini" is very convenient
In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't use much of any air-drying adhesive for most model airplane construction, I use thin Zap and Hot Stuff Super-T, with occasional epoxy for special cases. Like everybody, I have used any of those mentioned here with success at various times.
I started using Titebond and Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue for rockets, ordered straight out of the back of the Centuri catalog, where the rapid and extreme "grab" made it very useful for gluing on fins, and potentially disastrous for gluing in engine mounts. It's still far superior for the fins, I would use epoxy for the mounts, not because it's stronger, but because it has nearly no grab.
Gluing balsa to other balsa is is not a challenging use for an adhesive, as long as you use proper techniques, any of them are plenty good enough. I don't like Ambroid/Duco/SIGMENT/UHU Hart because of the extreme shrink, but obviously it hold the airplane together well enough.
Brett
-
I'm shocked that Dave Trible actually likes SIGment. I built a Starduster X wing with that stuff as a teen, double-glued (pre-glued and second application). When I took it up off the board, it pretty much fell apart. I reassembled it with Ambroid (which I had used for years already at my tender age), and had no such problem.
One of my dear-departed local FAI FF guys always used "fabric cement" to build with. The stuff from Aircraft Spruce, but bought at a local aircraft supply store. Smells like "Tarzan's Grip" glue from Australia, if you're DU. y1 Steve
-
I'm shocked that Dave Trible actually likes SIGment. I built a Starduster X wing with that stuff as a teen, double-glued (pre-glued and second application). When I took it up off the board, it pretty much fell apart. I reassembled it with Ambroid (which I had used for years already at my tender age), and had no such problem.
Hmm, I built a few airplanes with SIGMent/Duco, and no unusual problems. Ambroid was my model cement of choice but there are certainly downsides to it, and it shrinks more than SIGMent.
Brett