Author Topic: Electric Black Tiger (Read 3561 times)

Dan Grill · « **on:** July 18, 2019, 05:53:43 PM »

I have decided to get rid of all my "wet" planes, engines, and et al. I have always wanted a P-40 stunter so I plan to build one last plane for playing around. My choice is the Bob Elliott's Black Tiger with one big change...I want it to be electric. Any advice or help would be appreciated for this winter project.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2019, 08:01:52 AM »

Dan,
I have a Still Stuka that I converted to electric. This ship has similar moments to the BT and Barnstormer. I am using a 4S -2500 compact Zippy pack. I tried the 2100's and it was OK for OTS by for PA is was a little tight on time and battery life was short. You might consider using the Brodak Barnstormer electric conversion kit (SKU BH-1947). It is laser cut and should work fine with either battery pack. On my Stuka I needed to be able to get the battery pack back into the wing about 1/3 to get the balance without adding tail weight, I think the Brodak kit has the needed mods to do this (you may need to add a nose ring and flip it over for the inverted engine). Set-up wise I am running an APCE 10x6 @ 9750 rpm fixed rpm on 60 ft. C to C 0.015" braided. Good luck with the project.

Best, DennisT

Shorts,David · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2019, 11:15:26 AM »

Interesting. It just so happens I have a black tiger on my building table and was considering if I should do it glow or electric.

Steve Berry · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2019, 11:27:55 AM »

Quote from: Shorts,David on July 19, 2019, 11:15:26 AM

Interesting. It just so happens I have a black tiger on my building table and was considering if I should do it glow or electric.

Same here. I have a Lazer Works short kit sitting on my build table. Was going to use a Fox .35 (got the kit & engine in a raffle) but would like to go electric myself.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2019, 02:10:37 PM »

Thanks for the replies everyone. I am planning to get the lazer works short kit and I have a set of plans. Do plan on doing a lot of research and hope I can get input especially on construction for how to place battery. I don't plan on any type of competition just fun sunday flying so don't need max performance.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2019, 06:48:30 PM »

Thing is I don't need a bottle of windex after flying or K2r to take care of the fuel soaked plywood. Also less noise and no needle valve fiddling. With timers can get a couple of flights out of a battery just like the R/C guys. If planned right none of the electrics will show also like the R/C guys planes. Plus don't need to drag the fuel, starter, battery, tach, syringe, rags to the field. I'm lazy. But thanks for the input. Dan G

Shorts,David · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2019, 07:43:50 PM »

I'll have to double check my plans, but I think you could run a battery from the bottom front of the scoop up near or above the wing diagonally. I'm still leaning towards o.s. .35 I've got. Or LA .25 maybe. Working on the belcrank now.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2019, 02:53:55 PM »

Bob so nice to hear from you! This is more of a learning project because it sounds like fun to do. I have the charger that charges, discharges and balances the batteries and a good car battery. I like the fact that 2 years from now my batteries will still be good but not so the gallon of fuel, and the ease of just rolling up the lines, picking up the stooge and leaving. plus I don't need to fuel proof my printed out decal. Nothing wrong with wet planes I have played with them since I was 11 just want simple and fun.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2019, 01:23:58 PM »

Hi Dan, any progress on the Black Tiger project?

Dan Grill · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2019, 06:14:59 PM »

Now that the winter is coming and the Capri is put to bed I am ready to get started on the tiger. I got my short kit from Lazer Works and OMG what a great job! Need to start planning what motor to use and battery so I can build accordingly. I will take any information and opinions offered. I am excited about getting started. Please keep in touch.

Steve Berry · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2019, 10:46:56 AM »

Quote from: Dan Grill on December 10, 2019, 06:14:59 PM

Now that the winter is coming and the Capri is put to bed I am ready to get started on the tiger. I got my short kit from Lazer Works and OMG what a great job! Need to start planning what motor to use and battery so I can build accordingly. I will take any information and opinions offered. I am excited about getting started. Please keep in touch.

I've got the exact same kit that I won in a raffle. Please let me know what wood I'll need to get, as my stash is not quite as plentiful as I originally thought it was. Are you planning on OTS only, or also fly in Classic? That will affect the size of the battery needed.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2019, 02:32:40 PM »

I'm not really a pattern flier so will just be a fun play around plane. I was not really ever good at pattern flying. I did cheat and bought the canopy for the kit. So far I have some 1/4 square balsa for leading and trailing edges. Looks like also need some 1/16 and 1/8 sheet I'm lucky I have some 4 inch wide in my "balsa box", also couple of 1/2 in thick blocks to make side cockpit windows although I just may paint them on. Thinking about how to finish it, maybe aleutian tiger or I saw a picture of a P-40 with a parrot head on the nose. The shark mouth is getting a little old on them. Still researching power system but Brodak has a universal electric conversion that allows me to put a hatch on the top for battery access. All in all looking forward to getting started. Let me know how things are going for you. Thanks Dan G

Shorts,David · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2019, 10:54:20 PM »

I just need to buff mine out, put on the canopy and mount the gear, and do leadouts. Yeah, I love Lazer works stuff.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2019, 05:13:41 PM »

First three flights are done. Plane is going good so far, but power isn't working so we'll yet...maybe I should've gone electric too.

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2019, 05:40:33 PM »

Quote from: Shorts,David on December 27, 2019, 05:13:41 PM

First three flights are done. Plane is going good so far, but power isn't working so we'll yet...maybe I should've gone electric too.

What engine did your ultimately choose for yours, David?

Ted

john e. holliday · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2019, 08:45:03 PM »

Hey guys, if you are charging off you car battery, remember to fire your car up and go get a snack and make it about a ten mile trip with out shutting the engine off. I've had car batteries that would only click when you hit the starter, but after a jump start and driving at least ten miles were back to almost full charge.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2019, 01:14:30 PM »

Does anyone have some build up photos of the black tiger. I am just not sure how to start the main body? Only ever built profile planes from plans. I would appreciate any help. Thanks Dan

Gordon Van Tighem · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2019, 09:15:30 PM »

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/berkelely-40-warhawk-black-tiger-1866136625

http://www.controllineplans.com/Images/p40berk.GIF

Shorts,David · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2019, 11:02:30 PM »

If you want build photos I probably have several but my phone won't upload but I can from the computer. Email me if you want some and ill search.
Ted, I went with an fp .25. it was looking promising until the down leadout let go from the belcrank. It does pretty tight inside loops. Anyhow, I broke the prop and knocked the gear off. Spent more than an hour today slicing and rethreading a leadout. Maybe halfway done. But...the hinges are glued in solid. Lol

Shorts,David · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2019, 07:00:48 PM »

A couple build pictures I found

Dan Grill · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2020, 01:25:04 PM »

Before I put epoxy to sides wanted to get some opinions. I am thinking that I should no longer need the engine mounts. I don't know how much it would affect nose strength but i would be adding a mount for the motor. I was thinking of placing the battery under the rear of the front turtle deck and into the canopy, trying to keep the weight over the center of gravity. Ideas and thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

Shorts,David · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2020, 08:30:57 PM »

Hi Dan. Mine is just a tad nose heavy and turns tighter than it should. Both ways are even and the handle is as in as possible the elevator horn is as far out as possible. Il going to try a different handle with even closer spacing and untape my hinges. It's hitting about three foot corners and that's too much for my to handle right now. Point is, don't be afraid of putting the cg a tad forward. Just my thought of the day.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2020, 02:29:52 PM »

Thanks for the info Dave. Mine will be for sport flying so Ill be happy if it stays in the air. I have no interest in either pattern just circles, loops and 8s. I think Ill weigh my fox 35 with muffler and a 3.5 ounce tank as a starting point and go from there.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2020, 05:15:13 PM »

I was considering changing the nose and side windows and make it into a P-40 B. Just something I was thinking about.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2020, 07:40:49 PM »

I used the canopy from Lazer works. But for the back windows I cut them out and put in my own clear plastic so now I can see the flap horn.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2020, 02:16:26 PM »

Now that I am able to afford it I want to cover the plane with silkspan and dope. My questions are which type of dope to use? I am not after a super covering so I will be using a brush for color. I think Brodak used to sell spray color dope. Are there articles that I can look at to see proper ways to do said covering? Thanks Dan

Shorts,David · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2020, 12:15:31 AM »

There are definitely many great articles that more or less agree with each other. If you have a spare 8 hours, you can watch Windy U Master Brodak Dope videos on YouTube. I've only tried three techniques and never repeated anything yet so I'm not the expert. I used colored silk on my tiger and clear coat. I used natural tissue with some krylon stripes on another model. If you brush, make sure you thin it and have an excellent brush. I prefer sig supercoat over Brodak Dope because the sig shrinks more which helps an amateur like me.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2020, 10:08:27 AM »

When I was young I used Aero Gloss om silk span and cloth hinges but then I discovered Monocote. I just could never master wing tips, thank heaven for the Sig Twister. I really don't want the shiny coat from iron on so back to doping.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2020, 09:58:40 AM »

Putting project on hold until I can find 3/32 music wire in this blessed area and also a pair of control horns for flaps and elevator that aren't $14 each. A little silly for a piece of bent wire with a metal tab with holes soldered to it. I thought I bought 4 from eBay for $15 but turns out they were for 1/2A planes which I never knew were made. Oh well I have an 83 Capri that needs attention and I can get reasonably priced parts for it.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:44:36 AM »

Sometimes it's a bit silly, but when I'm at the contests there is usually a guy with a trunk full of hardware and everything under the sun. I picked up five or six control horns for 2 bucks each on the notion that I'd need them someday.
I love monocote too. I'll probably go back to it someday, but I want to figure out silkspan and dope first. I've got one more silkspan and dope plane all framed up. After that, who knows which method I'll use.
I hope the electric works good for you because I could only squeeze 3.25 ounces into the compartment for the tank and even with acetone in my fuel I'm cutting it questionably short on the run time.
Ace and Orchard hardware sometimes carry the smaller music wire. Also a train shop is where I got my last supply. Just some ideas.
I may buy a spare black tiger and do electric and monocote next time. such a bargain.

Capri is a great looking plane. have fun with that.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2020, 02:15:23 PM »

I am going to try my hand at making the control horns, can't believe it is very difficult. I'm not so much interested in flying patterns this project is basically to see if I can make the plane electric. I like the challenge of solving the problems that will show up as I go forward. Glad you are willing to give me advice I do take all I can get.

Robert Whitley · « **Reply #31 on:** January 20, 2020, 10:41:59 PM »

Try checking out your local industrial bolt supply stores for wire.
I’ve been buying drill rod from one of them and it is equal to or superior to music wire and is readily available in our commonly used sizes.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2020, 02:24:46 PM »

Thank you for the idea. My only choice around here is fastenal so I asked and basically got a "duh what?" LHS is going to restock their L&S rack so I am hoping they get it in.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #33 on:** January 29, 2020, 04:34:58 PM »

Ok I have a new question. I dug up my cute little scale and weighed a Fox .35 with tongue muffler and a 4 oz. tank and it came in at 9.8 oz. Then I weighed the motor, speed control and battery which came to 13 oz. Now if I add my fuel it would also be 13 oz but weight decreases as the fuel is used. Should I balance for the electric system? Does the balance change as fuel is used? Reason I ask is because I am planning my battery tray and need an idea where to place it. Any advice would be helpful.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #34 on:** January 29, 2020, 05:03:19 PM »

what size battery did you end up going with...so far? I'd definitely set it up as much as possible with the battery as installed as you can get it to balance on the spar, but I'd want to give yourself some wiggle room to go more than likely forward from there. But that's just my thought. One of my electrics is set up nose heavy, the other is right on the spar with battery installed.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #35 on:** January 30, 2020, 02:21:29 PM »

The battery is a 2200 mah I have for an electric super clown that I haven't flown yet. Ill hit hobby king for a 2700 version. I do appreciate your advice that is pretty much what I was thinking.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #36 on:** January 30, 2020, 07:11:33 PM »

I guess 2700 is reasonable. That's what I used in my barnstormer electric and it's about the same size as the blacktiger. I used some sort of drone three blade propeller that looked and flew really well. Especially for a p-40. It was a master airscrew drone 3 blade of some sort. Maybe 10*5? I'd have to double check. Again, good luck. Keep us posted.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2020, 06:44:19 PM »

I have decided to finish my tiger. Since my first c/l plane was a Cox P-40 I think it is fitting that my last plane should look like a Cox P-40.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #38 on:** February 02, 2020, 02:49:08 PM »

Does anyone think that the "tail feathers" supplied with the Lazer Works kit are a little thick? I was thinking that since I am making the plane electric perhaps 1/4 sheet would be a better choice for the tail. I am not going for OTS or some type of competition just weekend flyer. Any opinions?

Shorts,David · « **Reply #39 on:** February 02, 2020, 03:15:23 PM »

Sounds like a good idea. Many modern planes have thinner elevator than horizontal stabilizer. It just wouldn't technically be OTS legal, however I bet no one would notice, and they won't mind unless you beat them. Mine is stock, but you're right about it being thick and heavy.

Dan Grill · « **Reply #40 on:** February 02, 2020, 05:19:23 PM »

All and all it is turning into a fun project but the real work is yet to come when I try and power it.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #41 on:** February 22, 2020, 05:37:56 PM »

How's the blacktiger coming Dan? I'm guessing I've got about 40 flights on mine now, but after today I'm going back to my PA project. It was ten mile an hour winds and I think a larger plane would have done better, but I'm not certain. On calm days I was enjoying it more.

David