Easy Starting 35?

[Shawn Kuntz]

I like Fox 35's but they are hard to start by finger flipping.  What is an easy starting finger flipping 35 size engine that I could buy?  Super Tiger, OS, etc.?

[peabody]

Shawn...
I  think that once a Fox is properly broken in, it will start as well as any.....it's certainly NOT a reason to buy another brand...

That said, I think that OS motors, either LA or FP series, work better than Foxes and start easily...

[Peter Nevai]

I would also say that just about any modern engine properly broken in can be easy to start.Not that familiar what CL suitable engines come in 35 sizes anymore, but a OS LA 40 or Brodak 40 is a good alternative. Proper fuel, Proper Break in and a tad of experience can get either of these engines to be one or two flip starters. One reason for staying away from used engines from uknown sources is that you never know how they were broken in.

[Terry Bolin]

I have several Fox 35's and they all start fine by hand but like the others said: Even after then engine has been run earlier in the day, I still have to choke the engine until fuel is on you finger, then flip it over 3 or 4 more times before putting on the glow igniter.  The Fox's that I have don't start any harder than my OS engines either, just find your combination.
Good luck!
Terry B.

[Willis Swindell]

See if you can find a old $5.95 McCoy 35 red head and run a quart of Testers 39 through it, Then we will talk about hard starting.
Willis 

[Shawn Kuntz]

Thanks fellas.  I use an electric starter on my Fox motors.  They are broken in and run great.  But what I want to find is an easy finger flipper that I can use for the slow race in the contest I want to enter this summer.  The rules only allow finger starts not electric starters.

[Bill Little]

Thanks fellas.  I use an electric starter on my Fox motors.  They are broken in and run great.  But what I want to find is an easy finger flipper that I can use for the slow race in the contest I want to enter this summer.  The rules only allow finger starts not electric starters.

Sounds like the best place for a 25 LA or 25 FP.  Easiest "restarts" I have seen.

[Michael Floerchinger]

Hello Shawn,

   I have had a lot of Fox 35s, 45s, 50s and sorts of other Super Tigre, OS Max, Enyas, Mcoys …….. and the list goes on and on. The thing I had learned was what has been mentioned over and over was a proper break in is a big factor in first flip starts. The other factor is know you engine, not all will start on the first flip with the same prime, you have to experiment. But I have found another way to start any engine was to choke off the venturi and hold the prop, not flip the prop and turn it over a few times, then flip it a couple times to see if there is enough fuel fro a good compression “POP” without the glow plug energized, just to get the engine lubed if this is going to be the first start of the day. Then I would energize the plug, hold the prop, not flip the prop and choke the venturi as I turned over the engine, once I felt the ignition “POP” then I would take my finger off the venturi, signal for a start and then flip the prop and usually the engine would start on the first flip. The main thing is fly a lot, get used to the engine and you will figure out to first flip any engine.

Mike

[Crist Rigotti]

My Leonard Neumann Stuka Stunt Works OS 35FP is a 1 flip engine.  I could always count on it to perform on my Legacy 40.

[Bob Zambelli]

Just to chime in here - I was really impressed at how easy it was to start a properly broken in Fox .35.
The one on my Stinger starts the same, hot or cold, usually on just a few flips. And, it's 100% STOCK.

The main comment I would like to make is regarding electric starters. For a ball bearing engine, they are fine in that the bearings will take the thrust load.

On plain bearing engines like the Fox, OS or ENYAs, the only thing that keeps the crankshaft from moving backward is the plain face at the front of the case. In normal running, the prop pulls the crank forward against a well lubricated thrust washer inside the engine.

Every time you use an electric starter, a small amount of the front of the case is worn away, allowing the crank to move farther aft. It may be very slight - one or two thousandths but you can almost guarantee that it's happening.

At some point, you may see a black residue for a few seconds after it starts. This usually means that there has been enough wear that the crankpin has started to rub on the backplate, scuffing away a small amount of aluminum.

Make sense???
                            Bob Z.

[Phil Bare]

Shawn, in this day and time when mufflers are the order of the day, no engine is going to be any harder to start then any other for the simple reason that it is impossible to get an exhaust prime to them. PROVIDING, every thing is set up right and you have learned your engine and its requirementsOn a Fox Stunt .35, choke off the intake and turn the engine slowly about 4 times, flip it about three times, attach battery and she should start on the first flip....................But this applies to any engine.....providing it is set up right..........as an after thought, adding a stuffer back plate to an other wise stock Fox Stunt .35 will help as much as any thing, more crankcase compression + better fuel transfer ....

[W.D. Roland]

finaly good word about foxes---i always liked them and my .35 stunts started good

the way i did it(castor days no after run oils)first time of day was fill tank--choke and flip about 3 times-continue flipping (no choke)until fuel dispersed through engine and it loosend up(fresh alcohol thinning old castor)
connect battery-hold prop and pull it through if it bumps hard it will start 1 or 2  flips
if it didnt bump choke and turn one more and flip.
after this it was choke 1 turn and start the rest of the day.as engines like the .35 fox get more time on them add another choke stroke.
foxes like to be wet---dont know what was wrong with the one i chased through the yard with the garden hose!
guess he was a stupid fox.

David

[W.D. Roland]

opps--forgot you wana race
dont know what rules you have to follow.vintage?

all of these i know can be 1 flip starts hot and cold on as high as 40%fuel
these are what i used to run in slow rat in mid 70s

 no bb std by pass---st .35 stunt case with combat(bb) piston/sleeve/head(factory version was .35c)
                                       big case .35 testors mcoy(k&b piston sleeve with dykes ring)sleeve and all fits k&b green head?

bb allowed std by pass--st g.21 .35front or rear intake(rear intake made from .29
                                           home made k&b .29 rear intake and front on .35 case
                                            fox .36x
                                           
 bb & schnurel allowed   fox .36 schnurel(shiny case 4 bolt back plate)---real fast with 9x8 prop--slightly         
                                             rich- accelerates forever.something goes wrong with these if ever lean and mean.
                                              my best guess was distorted sleeves.
modern engines--im clueless

[Howard Rush]

Fox Mark III Combat Specials will start with one flip, but they're extinct.  I think your best bet is a Nelson. 

[Marvin Denny]

  Fox MK III ex-stink-ed??  HMMM  Don't go into my junk barrell Howard.  It will be like Jurassic Park!!  There are at least ten of them there  and two NIB.  Not so manr MK IV s though.  There is even a Nelson and a Wiley there along with a hoffelt.
  How about a MK VI with the steel banded piston still on it.

  Bigiron

[Bill Gruby]

Hi Marvin;

Was wonderin when you were gonna show here LOL

They don't wanna look in my barrel either lots of EX-Stink stuff in there not just Mark III's either, is a .29X BB ex-stink-ed? LOL

"Billy G"   

[phil c]

Notice we are talking racing here.  That means hot restarts.
Fox 35- has to have the right fuel, usually around 25% castor oil, or 17 castor 8 Klotz.  You can not let the motor get too hot.  That doesn't mean it has to four cycle all the time, but if the setting gets too lean the case will heat up, which heats up the needle valve, and it will get too hot to restart, since you burn your finger off choking it.  The tank has to be spot on too.  Talk to Big Iron.  He had an excellent running tank setup on a Foxberg at Brodak's.  With most tanks the motor can lean out enough to overheat on the last third of the tank.

Any motor with an aluminum venturi, or with the needle valve going through the case, can have the same problem, to a degree.

With the racing/combat ABC motors the sleeve taper and materials are set up to make hot restarts easy.  Most clubs would frown on using a Nelson in a club sport race.

the RC ABC motors just take practice finding the right combination of choking, fuel, and needle valve setting for hot restarts.  A lot of times motors like the LA series sound like they are flooded when they are hot, when they really need to be choked while flipping the prop to get fuel through the needle valve.  It takes a huge amount of abuse to wear them out to the point where they won't hot restart.

[Marvin Denny]

  Phil Got it pretty close.  Heat is your enemy when it comes to hot restarts.  I used the only tank authorized in the Brodak contest---a Sullivan 2oz clunk.  The only thing I did was to tilt the rear of the tank outboard and and the bottom outboard slightly and replummed it so that ihe tubes wouldn't move around when I tried to put the refueling bulb on them.  The difference in speed is very little between a wet two setting and a dead lean setting.  BUT  the difference in laps is significent, but with the 2oz tank, the number of laps per tank is not important as there is enough fuel on board to easily make the race in the required number of stops even running in a four setting.  The heat generated between a screaming lean setting and the soft two is significant , so the ideal setting is a soft two.
 A plane that "flies it's self" is quite important as any time you have to input control changes into the handle, the plane slows down.

  Getting into and out of the pits quickly (pilot technique) is important, and Phil is one of the best.  Thanks for piloting my plane Phil.

  Bigiron

[Howard Rush]

Marvin,

I'll trade you a Mark 4 for a Mark 3.

[Marvin Denny]

  Howard, I sent you an E-mail re the MK III.

  Marv