Author Topic: Elongated Fuselage for Flite Streak? (Read 6129 times)

Allen Eshleman · « **on:** June 02, 2010, 02:23:36 PM »

I have an ARF Flite Streak, which has been, thus far, the best flying plane I've had. I'm also getting better by fractional degrees - doing lots of figure 8's and hoping to pull off a vertical 8 and square 8 soon. However, I'm aware that the fuselage will need to be replaced at some point. I already have the wood. I have 30 flights or so on this one. I read somewhere on this forum that the fuselage can be elongated - let's say - an inch in the front and three inches in the back. Has anyone tried this and what would it do to flight characteristics and handling?

Gordan Delaney · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2010, 05:45:40 PM »

Allen,

I`ve been doing that for about thirty years. Makes a great airplane. I also add 3/8in. to the elevator.

Gordan Delaney

ray copeland · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2010, 06:47:10 PM »

Allen, found my old templates. I added 1 inch to the nose and 2 inches to the tail section and made the elevator 1/4 inch larger. OS la25, home made tongue muffler with a 3 oz. hayes clunk on pressure, a joy to fly every time!

Allen Eshleman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2010, 08:16:12 PM »

What does this do to the handling? Does it slow it down? I'm also using a Hayes 3 oz. tank, Fox 35, inboard mount and pressure.

Elwyn Aud · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2010, 04:58:03 AM »

If you're using the ARF Streak measurements as a base line for a new fuselage, be aware that the ARF Streak fuselage is around an inch longer than original Streak.

ray copeland · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2010, 06:04:32 AM »

Elwyn, thanks for that info, i did not know that, my measurements are based on arf dims. Total fuselage length on mine (using an arf wing,rudder and stab) is 28 inches, it turns a lot smoother than my standard size arf plus there is plenty of room to mount a tank on the outboard side if desired.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2010, 09:43:15 AM »

Around here, we fly what we call the "Doodle Streak" so named because it has a much larger, higher aspect ratio horizontal tail and elevator. It flies out of corners much more smoothly than with the original dimensions. All the models we have done were based on the ARF 'Streak.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2010, 09:52:56 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on June 03, 2010, 09:43:15 AM

Around here, we fly what we call the "Doodle Streak" so named because it has a much larger, higher aspect ratio horizontal tail and elevator. It flies out of corners much more smoothly than with the original dimensions. All the models we have done were based on the ARF 'Streak.

I like the idea of a longer tail - should make it tremendously less sensitive to the CG location. Note that if you make it long enough, you get a Skyray. But I think it's a bad idea to increase the aspect ratio of the tail. It's not going to be a significamt improvement in any aerodynamic way and it will be either heavier or more flexible, or probably both. Just scale it up in all dimensions.

Brett

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2010, 05:14:09 PM »

Ty brings up the subject of power, but doesn't tell the whole story. The FS story was that GMA designed and built the prototype, and put a Fox .35 (Combat?) on it. Those were the worst of the Fox .35's for vibration, apparently. Anyway, GMA had problems with the engine run, he figured that it was nose flex (harmonic), so he drew the final plans with a 1" shorter nose than his prototype, and sent the plans off to Top Flite. If you extend the nose 1", you'll be right back where George started. Not a problem with a smooth ABC/ABN .25. TF also twisted George's arm to enter combat at the NATS with some FSs...as I recall the results, that didn't accomplish much, as he was out after a couple of rounds.

As an aside, I have a SIG Skyray 35 with a .25LA-S. It's way too heavy for the .25...and tailheavy. An ARF Flite Streak wing would be a huge improvement...which would then be the same thing as a FS ARF with nose and tail extended. So, I'd vote to do what Gordan said!

Steve

Kim Mortimore · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2010, 05:34:02 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on June 03, 2010, 04:44:22 PM

Hi Allen. I have three Flite Streaks. One is stock, (ARF) turns on a dime as they all do. Second one has a one inch longer nose to allow a bigger tank. Turns on a dime. The third one has a 1 1/2 inch longer nose and a two inch longer tail. Turns gracefully like a true stunter. No instant bang turn......I consider this version more of a trainer.... Ty

If the results of Ty's "experiment" can be generalized, and aren't due to some other factors, doesn't the long tail tend to exacerbate an inherent weakness of flapless planes: soft squares? Could a somewhat shorter tail with larger stab/elevator be preferable?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2010, 08:50:38 PM »

Quote from: Kim Mortimore on June 03, 2010, 05:34:02 PM

If the results of Ty's "experiment" can generalized, and aren't due to some other factors, doesn't the long tail tend to exacerbate an inherent weakness of flapless planes: soft squares? Could a somewhat shorter tail with larger stab/elevator be preferable?

But there's a tradeoff to be made. The basic airplane is capable of turning tighter than you can practically control for competition stunt. So there's not much reason to make it any better than that. The longer tail will improve the acceleration in pitch and also the damping of the corners, so it starts and stops better and still give a sufficient corner.

Too long, and you are limiting it and the corners will get softer. The Skyray is sort of like that, at least my light version, it is clearly limited by it's tail moment, which I think is excessive for the wing loading. It's about perfect for the stock-weight model and a 20FP.

And I think you are overstating the "soft corners" from non-flapped airplanes. Stuff like the Ringmaster have to be flown soft because the airfoil is terrible, not because the tail moment or tail volume is inadequate. But reasonable-weight airplanes with good airfoils (Jamison Special, All-American, Doctor, and the Flite Streak) have *no problem* turning far tighter than you can consistently manage in competition.

Brett

Bill Heher · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2010, 08:56:41 PM »

Longer nose with an inboard balsa doubler gives enough of room for a 3oz tank, plenty for a .25. Stretching the tail makes it more friendly / less twitchy, and helps reduce the need for tail weight for balance.

Kim Mortimore · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2010, 09:21:47 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on June 03, 2010, 08:50:38 PM

.......And I think you are overstating the "soft corners" from non-flapped airplanes. Stuff like the Ringmaster have to be flown soft because the airfoil is terrible, not because the tail moment or tail volume is inadequate. But reasonable-weight airplanes with good airfoils (Jamison Special, All-American, Doctor, and the Flite Streak) have *no problem* turning far tighter than you can consistently manage in competition.

Brett

"Soft corners" was probably a bad choice of terms. I should have said something like "whatever makes them mostly absent from competition when they aren't getting a 10-point bonus in OTS."

Larry Renger · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2010, 12:01:49 AM »

Brett, sorry to disagree with you, but the Doodle Streaks have been flown by a lot of different people and they all agree it is a smooth stunter. (BTW, I was a rocket scientist too! Both model and full scale)

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2010, 04:29:06 AM »

The most outrageous Flite Streak I've seen is a Top Flight model powered by a Fox Mark 111 Combat Special on bladder. Spectacular. One year at the NATs way back when, I think a Flite Streak came in second in Fast Combat. Seeing the Streak with the Mark 111 do it's thing, made me believe it possible.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2010, 07:48:17 AM »

I remember when the Flite Streak came out. Guys in the club were putting 1/16 ply full length both sides of fuse. The Flite Streak built according to the instructions is still one of the quickest turn planes I ever had. But, then I built a Giant Killer by Scarinzi.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2010, 10:38:27 AM »

There is of course the Dan Banjok/Ted Heinrich double dimensioned (4 times the volume?) giant Streak powered by an ASP 1.08. Overpowering and scary first few times it is experienced. Will do a pattern of sorts, a decent corner actually. Dan flies it with two hands, tilted backwards 30 degrees to balance the pull on the .027 lines. Far as I know it has not been entered in Profile. A three liner, perhaps not legal in that event. There is as well a potential issue with engine size.

Allen Eshleman · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:02:39 PM »

He again,

I'm not very aerodynamically versed. What is a higher aspect horizontal tail and elevator?

Allen Eshleman

Larry Renger · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:31:16 PM »

The chord (front to back distance) is kept the same but the wingspan (side to side) is increased making for a "thinner" surface viewed from the top. The area is increased linearly with the increase in span. Aerodynamically, the added area improves damping and control power, plus the efficiency of the surface (lift to drag ratio) is somewhat improved.

In our experience, it has worked extremely well.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2010, 05:42:50 PM »

One of our club members had a FS arf. OS 32 30% nitro and an old u-reely(50' lines?). One flight and done. The wing was the only survivor. He gave it to me and I built a Skyray fuse for it. Between that, 10% fuel and 60' lines, it's pretty docile now. Should have put 2 wheel gear on it.

Steve

ray copeland · « **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2010, 08:14:33 PM »

Pic of mine with arf parts and new fuselage.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2010, 08:44:19 AM »

It looks good even with the over spray. Now for a great flight report. Also don't worry about the overspray as I think it gives it character. Now you know why I borrow the neighbor's news paper to cover every thing I don't want painted.

YakNine · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2010, 12:51:59 PM »

Any recomendations for a super combat streak? I was looking at Barry's Plans and am thinking about one with a .35 fox in it. Do they fly pretty much the same as a regular streak, I was just hoping that the engine might behave a little bit more sitting upright. Its a stock .35 with a stuffer backplate. Thanks T.J.