Drone Attack Over Los Angeles

[Steve Helmick]

Can't believe that y'all didn't notice this in yesterday's news! I can't admit to being a helicopter fan, but more so than drones. Wondering if they'll find what's left of the drone...I'm pretty sure the drone owner isn't going to file a claim for damages, but wonder if perhaps it was a legit drone flown by another TV News crew...wouldn't that be exciting?!    Steve

https://www.dailynews.com/2019/12/04/los-angeles-tv-news-helicopter-struck-by-drone-lands-safely/

[Perry Rose]

The down wash of the rotors will deflect a bullet but a drone gets through??

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

Drone?  Proof?  We hit something, was it a drone?

I just don't trust anything these sensation pimps say.

[Dwayne]

The down wash of the rotors will deflect a bullet but a drone gets through??

I was thinking the same thing, how did it get through the down wash?

[Steve Helmick]

Good points by all! I would suspect that a drone would have to be sucked down through the rotors, which would show damage on the rotor blades. I believe rotor blades to be pretty tough stuff, tho there would be some sort of scrapes and scratches. The pictures I've seen show some damage, but don't really show what part of the copter they're on. I'm pretty sure the FAA will use the findings to make whatever point they want to make, probably make all of LA county a no-fly zone for law abiding R/C models, if it isn't already. That's what they do, it seems.    Steve

[Tom Vieira]

you are all assuming one thing, it approched from the front, side, or bottom traveling through the main rotor wash.  possible it approached behind the main rotor, where turbulence is significantly less and then striking the rear tail stabilizer?

[Dave Hull]

The closeup photos on-line of the tailplane of the chopper pretty clearly show the impact damage. Go look and then you can form a better assessment.

Don't forget that the drone is flying on a GPS-coupled autopilot. High bandwidth control. Way, way faster than "R/C fingers." It is going to try to maintain altitude, even thru a rotor downwash. Ever been up close to one of these dudes when someone cranks "full up?" It is beyond awesome--it is scary if you're too close. I was next to a large "camera platform" when the guy popped it off the table he had it set on to adjust some things. Won't make that mistake again.

If the drone operation was any kind of legit, the FAA already has a LAANC on file. I'd bet good money that it doesn't. There is also an interesting rule about operations having to be below the top of a tall building and within some number of feet--presumably because a manned aircraft would not go there.

If the Feds can get their hands on the controller like they did in the case of the New York Blackhawk incident, they'll get accurate data on where the collision actually occurred. Otherwise, you are listening to a full-sized pilot tell you where he thinks it was. He is not an uninterested party.

There are lots of chopper flights around here. I don't think a lot of them meet the standards for flight over densely populated areas. Maybe they should.

The Divot

[944_Jim]

If I had to guess, that chopper pilot was someplace he wasn't supposed to be.  I can hear the narrative in my head as I tell my grandchildren of a hobby I nejoyed in my youth, and.mid-life crisis. I bet he was flying backwards at 40 feet above ground. We are lucky he doesn't tell the truth, otherwise the FAA would use this to make any CL aircraft illegal.
Narrative:
"See what happens when a professional pilot flies as he should? It's those irresponsibly flown CL model airplanes! Look at one of them did to that helicopter! The helicopter pilot was flying safely above the crowd at that illegal CL meet at the edge of the farmer's property! The pilot was safely maneuvering in reverse, watching where he was flying by using his rearview mirrors when BAMM, out of nowhere that CL plane came up into the bottom of the tail while attempting a death-defying loop!"
And that ended CL flying as a hobby.
Well, like we say in my house..."It sounded good!"

[Fredvon4]

watch the video

https://abc7.com/air7-struck-by-drone-over-downtown-la-makes-precautionary-landing/5734727/

[Dan McEntee]

   They are just assuming it was a "drone". They have no debris and can't say for sure if they saw it. The pilot said his observer 'thought" he saw the red and green lights of a drone" but I don't know of any that have position lights?? Look at how nice and square the hole is. Pretty good size also. That leading edge is pretty stout, and it must have taken something pretty heavy and sharp to punch through it. Then there is the distance to the big dent further outboard. No where near the same kind of damage. 7:15 PM and it would have been dark. I sincerely doubt their story. If it would have hit a quadcopter or model airplane, there would have been something left behind. That long gouge in that outer dent area is suspicious also. Again, something hard, heavy and sharp would be needed to make that. I wonder what ATC has on their radar records for their operations that night?? First thing would be to prove that they were where they said they were, when they said they were there and at the altitude they claim. It just doesn't add up to me.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Fredvon4]

While I am aware that there are indeed very large hexa drones with relatively heavy payloads....most in that cost also have very sophisticated accident avoidance sensors and software,,,,I am talking commercial systems that can cost over 50,000 bucks

I worked on helicopters most of my career...the damage on the leading edge of the sync elevator is too extensive to be from a lite hobby drone....even at high speed....I find the spiral (helical)  scar on the tail rotor blade curious also....

I am certain this is was a mid air collision in an urban setting....can't think of any roof top antenna that could damage top of elevator...so at a loss to describe a fixed object that was ran into by the copter

back to expensive heavy drone....need not be a copter type we usually think of...there are fixed wing drones with front tractor engines both electric and IC...but sync elevator strike first then into tail rotor....no prop left so perhaps the helical blade scar is from shaft running motor?  And a fixed wing craft into the rotor wash and then not wiping out the tail rotor is hard to invision.....

I am leaning toward the chopper was shot from the ground with rifled large bore shotgun or black powder damage and helical scar consistent with spinning projectile

edit in....no ----my scenario does not work as elevator damage is top side...shot at from roof top --maybe, but not from the ground

[katana]

I can't understand you guys! First off you all hate drones for what they represent and what they are doing to your hobby via regulations (short sighted or not), then when one 'potentially' causes damage, you defend them with reasons why it couldn't be blamed - but equally, can't come up with viable alternatives that don't involve a professional, certified heli pilot flying recklessly as to strike a ground object! Please make up your minds as to which side of the fence you are on!

[Chuck_Smith]

I am leaning toward the chopper was shot from the ground with rifled large bore shotgun or black powder damage and helical scar consistent with spinning projectile

edit in....no ----my scenario does not work as elevator damage is top side...shot at from roof top --maybe, but not from the ground
[/quote]

Sure, with a 1 in .125" twist. Sheesh.  That's not what a shot rotor looks like, I can assure you.

[Dan McEntee]

I can't understand you guys! First off you all hate drones for what they represent and what they are doing to your hobby via regulations (short sighted or not), then when one 'potentially' causes damage, you defend them with reasons why it couldn't be blamed - but equally, can't come up with viable alternatives that don't involve a professional, certified heli pilot flying recklessly as to strike a ground object! Please make up your minds as to which side of the fence you are on!

      Hey, certified heli pilots can and have been stupid people also. Human nature. I ain't defending anything nor any body, just offering my opinion by what I can see. The circumstances that are offered up and the photo evidence just don't add up to me. Something else happened, I think
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

And we don't all hate drones.  I don't like flying them, they don't act like an airplane and my dumb fingers just don't understand how to get them to work right.  But then I mostly like tootling around doing some spins, loops and touch n go's.  I am usually fascinated by anything that flys.   Not usually fascinated by what people DO with those things.  Structure diving is pretty thrilling to watch.  Imitators of people with real skills by people with, well MY skills and no waivers can cause plenty of problems. 
And we all love when idiot drones, those that fly themselves with limited guidance, get their software in a kink and decide to fly "Home" whereever the drone thinks that is.  I remember watching a video of a drone flying into a building, multiple times, because it wanted to go home to some place in Washinton even though it was in New York.

But none of that matters here.  It's ok to be upset with multirotor or any RC pilot who uses their craft to break a law as it will affect ALL of us.

It's not ok to assume that any damage done is caused by a "drone" with no proof other then non specific damage as that will also be used to affect ALL of us.

I remember in Topeka we lost a crew of emergency medical people because the pilot wanted to show everyone what it was like to fly "In the Nam" and the power lines took his rotor off.  Pilots are people after all, capable of all our failings.

[Fredvon4]

I spent 24 years Army....mostly aviation maintenance, instructor, and graduate of Safety Center and later Crash Investigation schools at Ft Rucker.  For over 7 years I was sent TDY to various crash sites to investigate, guard, photo document, interview witness and air crews, write opinion and fact based reports as part of a team. 

I am not trying to find a way to excuse any actor in this event....

Based on photo evidence I have no good theory how that happened in forward flight.....however at a hover, any object (FOD) of weight might have rotor wash blow it into the leading edge of the sync elevator

HELL for all we know from the reporting....This crew failed to pre flight an on landing post flighted and made up a story to account for the aircraft damage......

90 percent of the pilots I met were above average smarts and good honest humans.....the butt heads got FEB* OUT and went to work flying life flight or power line or TV crews....less than average ability or ethics got them *Flight Evaluation Boarded out of the Army

In an urban area, I have never heard of a weapons assault from above, but I do not believe my knowledge is any indication that it never happens...I know that no "from above" incidents ever happen in RURAL areas...duh!

I do know and have investigated shots and hits to Army aircraft from below in the greater Ft Hood Texas area...never did find the shooter(s) and most were relatively small caliber

[Chris McMillin]

Are you high?

If I had to guess, that chopper pilot was someplace he wasn't supposed to be.  I can hear the narrative in my head as I tell my grandchildren of a hobby I nejoyed in my youth, and.mid-life crisis. I bet he was flying backwards at 40 feet above ground. We are lucky he doesn't tell the truth, otherwise the FAA would use this to make any CL aircraft illegal.
Narrative:
"See what happens when a professional pilot flies as he should? It's those irresponsibly flown CL model airplanes! Look at one of them did to that helicopter! The helicopter pilot was flying safely above the crowd at that illegal CL meet at the edge of the farmer's property! The pilot was safely maneuvering in reverse, watching where he was flying by using his rearview mirrors when BAMM, out of nowhere that CL plane came up into the bottom of the tail while attempting a death-defying loop!"
And that ended CL flying as a hobby.
Well, like we say in my house..."It sounded good!"

[Fredvon4]

Chris u missed the sarcastic laughing man to Jim's tongue in cheek "There I was, 30,000 feet, out of FUEL, oil, airspeed-- and good ideas" accounting of the catastrophic hole in the aircraft...

which by the way can actually be fixed with.......100 MPH tape or simple 50 MPH Duct Tape.

Duck tape will not work as it was only designed for holes in blinds and decoys on Duck Dynasty

 

[Dave Hull]

Impact energy increases linearly with the increase in the mass of the light object (drone), and as the square of the velocity at impact.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=drone+damage+to+wing+testing&&view=detail&mid=FC43A1BF7E4FE446ED1EFC43A1BF7E4FE446ED1E&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Ddrone%2Bdamage%2Bto%2Bwing%2Btesting%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

The damage looks consistent with a drone strike. Would have to see it up close (and even using paint transfer and microscope) to verify. I would also pull the surface/skin and look inside. A bird strike is often obvious--but not always until you get inside the structure.

Saying it wasn't a drone strike unless the helo landed with drone parts embedded is not realistic. They may be embedded, but then again not. Been in a car wreck? Did you have pieces of the other car stuck in your door panel? Maybe not....

Never heard back from the alleged Mexico drone strike that wiped out their radome. What did they find inside when they pulled off the damaged skin?

Media coverage of stuff like this is beyond poor. They assume that we have the attention span of gnats and don't want to know what actually happened. If it isn't still bleeding or have some other shock factor, how it ends won't get reported. Certainly not as widely as the initial report. Personally, I believe that if the news practice was to cover how each story actually turned out, we would have a lot better informed public. Pay for new highway taxes? Great, what did it get spent on? It didn't get spent on highways? Then don't ask me for another bond issue!  Claim a drone brought down an aircraft? Great, show me the NTSB/FAA reports.

Dave

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

"Never heard back from the alleged Mexico drone strike that wiped out their radome. What did they find inside when they pulled off the damaged skin?"

I believe they found feathers, it was a bird.

[Brad LaPointe]

Falling space junk .

Brad

[Fredvon4]

got to wondering what was decided cause...

I believe Dave said it best

"Media coverage of stuff like this is beyond poor. They assume that we have the attention span of gnats and don't want to know what actually happened. If it isn't still bleeding or have some other shock factor, how it ends won't get reported. Certainly not as widely as the initial report. Personally, I believe that if the news practice was to cover how each story actually turned out, we would have a lot better informed public. Pay for new highway taxes? Great, what did it get spent on? It didn't get spent on highways? Then don't ask me for another bond issue!  Claim a drone brought down an aircraft? Great, show me the NTSB/FAA reports."