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Author Topic: drag  (Read 2505 times)

Offline Dan Miles

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drag
« on: November 29, 2006, 02:57:49 PM »
anyone out there know how to calculate drag on lines. I would like to know how much the lines drag but don't know how to figure it.

Offline Scott Jenkins

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Re: drag
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 03:19:17 PM »
Dan,
Follow this link http://www.go-cl.se/cl.html and go down to the Team Racing section.
Look under "As I F2C it" for the team racing spreadsheet. Its a downloadable xls spreadsheet you can manipulate to get the results you want.

Scott
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FAI F2C VOLUME 2 SECTION 4, 4.3.7
m) During the refuelling and the restart of the motor, and until the time when he releases the model aircraft, the mechanic must keep the model aircraft in contact with the ground by at least one point and with the centre line outside the flight circle. During that time the pilot must be crouching or sitting inside the centre circle. He keeps one hand on the ground and his handle and his lines as close to the ground as defined by the F2C panel of judges until the model aircraft starts again.

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: drag
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 04:32:53 PM »
Go to the download section of this forum and download LineIII, it includes a couple of PDF files that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about line drag.

It isn't a simple calculation as too many things effect it.

Offline John Paris

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Re: drag
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 07:10:56 PM »
Dan,
You are not planning on getting technical on the group are you?  The simple answer is that there is enough drag from the lines to make the airplane rotate 360° each lap...... n~
John

Good luck on your quest.
John Paris
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Offline Dan Miles

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Re: drag
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 04:27:12 PM »
I've been busy and didn't have time to get back till now sorry Here's what I'm getting to; We know that the plane should fly with it's front to back centerline 90 degrees to an imaginary line between the handle and the plane so it will turn loops without yawing around (speed planes can piont "in" a little and get a little more speed but they don't loop). All I'm saying is that the center of drag (including the lines) and the center of thrust should be the same or the plane will try to fly toward the drag. If the those centers were on the same line without lines then we need to add the amount of the lie drag on the outboard side. Bandaids can be used like engine offset, rudder offset, linerake and some others but they will cause other problems when the conditions change like a manuver, going into and outof the wind, going slower at the top of a wingover. So eventhough these bandaids seem to slove the problem under certain stiuations, it will not work throughout. If we can get the drag (including lines) and the thrust on the same line we will know that the problem is somewhere else. If your plane flies at you, points away from you or yaws around in manuvers, (like changing from inside to outside in an 8) you will know the planes (inculing the lines) aerodynamics is right i that respect.


Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: drag
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 06:57:01 PM »
Sounds interesting, this would mean the engine needs to be someplace on the inboard wing in order for the center of thrust and center of drag to be in the same location. All you effectively would be doing is lengthening the outboard wing. Not sure if it's ever been tried, would take a ton of tip weight.

Every aspect of a stunt ships is a compromise of some fashion. If you make one aspect perfect something else could be off so far the model could very well be unflyable.

Offline John Paris

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Re: drag
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 07:57:57 PM »
Longer OB wing to make the thrust get in line with the drag....  Ok, now how would we compensate for the lift differential.  There are many forces to think about here.  I suppose the additional drag of the longer OB wing would require that the engine be brought closer to the center again...
John
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Offline Dan Miles

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Re: drag
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 10:59:00 PM »
the outboard drag could be a fence like was on the Goldburg Wizzard ??. or some other way to get the thrust/darg (including lines) at the same place

Offline Bill Little

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Re: drag
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 11:09:23 PM »
Longer OB wing to make the thrust get in line with the drag....  Ok, now how would we compensate for the lift differential.  There are many forces to think about here.  I suppose the additional drag of the longer OB wing would require that the engine be brought closer to the center again...
John

Hi John,

I don't know about how to get the thrust line/drag evened up, but I do know of a famous or rather infamous design that has a longer outboard panel.  y1

Maybe the designer(he's a member) will pontificate ion that subject.

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: drag
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2006, 07:09:04 PM »
If anyone remembers Dave Trible's Shameless design will have noticed that the outboard wing was longer.  Of course it is a profile design.  Daves theory was this was centering the the weight of fuse, engine and associated stuff on the center of the wing.  I had mine out yesterday just to get a flight up.  Keep forgetting what a terrific flying design it is.  DOC Holliday
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