Done with PAMPA

[Steve Hines]

For the people that did not know, Samantha stepped up and said that she would be the CD. She was going to change vacation for going to Brodac to the Nats. She found out her vacation days had been taken away because of covid time off. the only way she could get more time off was if she did an internship. She did not need this for school, and she did not want to get paid. She is in her last Cass for Statistical Analytic. Capstone what they call it, but they give you a topic and your three-member team have to take it for start to finish. This would have been good for the AMA, a job like that would have been worth thousands. She could have done it on how to keep PAMPA for dying.

Dave sent something to the AMA, Told Samantha to do it herself but she does not listen to me. That was sometime Thursday. Got text message starting around 1 that john Paris was going to be CD. What happen to Samantha? Talked with John and he said that he volunteered if things did not work out with Samantha. Don't know what was said, was not on that phone call. This is what Samantha received 9 hours later.

The first thing Samantha said when i called he, is this does not surprise me! PAMPA only want Female's to be tabulators and runners. this is what she got from Dave nine hours later. I will have to type it out because i can't get it to post from a text. If they is something incorrect, I will correct it.

Hi Samantha. Dave here. I Am still working on your internship and want you to get to come to help us.I need to get the word out to the crew what was going on and we still hadn't nailed down anything yet. I told some what we were trying to do with you coming. A couple of us that have done this began to think this would be overwhelming to you right now given everything you got going on in your life and likely not be the best for you if you had this much pressure- and it is trying to make a bunch of people happy in sometimes bad circumstances. I got cussed at a couple of times for things I had to do or out of my control. And it quite a lot of work even before you get there. John Paris called me while i was at work today and offered. I felt without knowing what AMA is going to do I should accept. I still wish for you to come and help John in whatever capacity he needs most. I know we have NOBODY to do the tabulation. In that way you can still do the internship. I'll let you anything they tell me. Reach out to me whenever.

Dave Trible

Isn't something how people say they are doing something in your best interest while they are screwing you. Now to Samantha reply.

Hi Dave. I really don't want t hold back on feelings with this because I feel as it this is important. First off, i have no desire t help with anything at the NATS or do any sort of other internship after this. Also, for you and others to assume that this would be overwhelming to me is offensive. Besides doing full time college in Business Analytic, I also work at a dental corporation and help manage 34 centers. My role is a Patient Care Coordinator and I the head of patient complaints. So to think that I couldn't deal with this is very wrong. Not to mention I wouldnt be taking any called or working during that time so I could put all my energy into this internship but you wouldt know that because you neglected to even ask me. Just because it is hard for others doesn't mean it would be difficult for me. I truly feel this is very sexist or ageist because there is no explanation for this. Saying that I could be a tabulator instead is troubling to me because there is no correlation on the workload between the two. I done being underestimated. I feel that this sort of unacceptable behavior has been happening to me since I started flying. Just because I am a women doesn't mean can't do what a man can do and I assure you I am better than what you think. I am a hard worker, incredibly intelligent and tougher than you could imagine. I'm sorry you had to miss out on me ever helping any of you again.

Dave who is the couple, step up and let Samantha know who the others are. She may just like to write them a letter.
And how many guys did you offer the tabulator job too.

Steve, or as I'm know at contests Samantha dad.

[wwwarbird]

 Wow. Doesn't seem like the best decision toward encouraging the future of the hobby.

[Craig Beswick]

Wow  there's nothing like making a private matter public!

From the letter sent by Samantha it seems to me she is more than capable in handling the situation.

I'm not sure why you have found it necessary to stir the pot in an open forum. Each to their own I suppose.

Craig

[SammiHines]

Hello everyone. First off, this is not a private matter due to this directly impacting this years event. I believe that this needs awareness and keeping silent will not break the pattern I have endured for 11 years. Even though everyone has not treated me this way, there has been an overwhelming amount of people that have. Each year is something different and I cannot deal with it anymore. I have been feeling underestimated and not equal for too long and something needs to change. If you all want this sport/hobby to not die, I would suggest treating everyone equally no matter age, race or sex. It is 2022, not 1950, please start acting like educated individuals. I do thank those who have supported me, advocated for me and shared laughs with me. I especially thank those who haven't treated me differently because I am a woman or because of my age. Additionally, I feel like this is needed because my flying career ends here. I don't feel like it is worth putting time, money and effort into this which has made me completely lose interest. This is just not benefiting me and is only tearing me down. With this, I really hope this can provoke some change in the community.

Sammi

[john e. holliday]

I know I don't really have a fight in this, but I think some people have made a mistake in letting this young lady do the job.  I know of a couple of ladies that did their work for the AMA Nationals.  First one was Bev Wisnieuski(spelling) who cd'd contests and ran the NATS control part.   Brenda Schuette was event director if I remember right before Bev took her under her wing and taught her what she needed to know at the time.  It is probably too late but I think you should have been offered the position.  If you know how to manage people it isn't the title you have.  I know from being an event directer for the NATS it take getting people in the right positions to get things done.  You think Dave or any of the past stunt ED's did it all by them selves.  My thoughts.

[Dan McEntee]

   The first thing in my mind, as I read all of the posts here, is the only way I am familiar with the name Samantha Hines is seeing her picture in magazine or on line in photos at contests years ago. i don't think I have heard or read anything about any model related activities of hers in the last several years. From Steve's and Samantha's descriptions she has been working pretty hard in establishing her path in life. Sounds like she will a very successful person in whatever she decides to do with her life.

   What I haven't seen anywhere is anything about her involvement in the event, or running a contest and being a CD at any contests. I read the mags, Stunt News and this forum a lot, and do not recall seeing her name any where.  I don't think I have ever seen her listed as being a judge at any major contests, or at the NATS. Samantha may have some other real life experience in organizing and managing business that is a definite plus. But I don't think she has left any kind of foot print in the national spectrum of Precision Aerobatics. Some might put it that she has no name recognition in the event. To me that means she hasn't been very active in the event to an extent where she has the experience to be event director at the NATS. I haven't been to very many C/L NATS, but the few that I have and in talking with others that are more experienced, and some of those who have been the ED, it can be and will be pretty intense. This has nothing to do with her being female, If it were Alice Royer, Mary Gebhardt or Randi Gifford or some of the other females in the stunt community with similar flying and/or major contest back grounds, I don't think we would be having this discussion. In thinking about this as I'm typing, wasn't it just at last years NATS where Todd Lee's wife Michelle stepped up to be an assistant E.D. when it was really needed ?? I really don't think PAMPA has been anywhere near what some would call a "good old boys club" as it seems like it's being insinuated here. I think if you are going to be the E.D. of the biggest, most important stunt contest in the country, you need a reputation and credibility that the entrants can feel confident that you will be able to handle all of the crap that is CERTAINLY going to be shoveled your way. I don't think anyone that is a regular NATS attendee gives a rats ass if you are male, female or whatever. Just be some one that knows the rules, knows the event, has some experience to fall back on when the unexpected does (and WILL) happen. And it doesn't hurt if you know or are familiar a pretty good cross section of the people all across the country who fly this event.  NATS week isn't exactly the place for on the job training, in my opinion. I like to use the analogy of learning to drive a car at Indianapolis on Memorial Day! In thinking about it again, I don't see it as a bad opportunity for Samantha to be involved as an assistant E.D., add her skills and work experience to the effort, and still fulfil the requirements she needs for her internship, if I am understanding the situation correctly. It's certainly something that should be considered.
   This is just my feelings on the issue.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

add her skills and work experience to the effort, and still fulfil the requirements she needs for her internship, if I am understanding the situation correctly. It's certainly something that should be considered.

Dan, you need to reread Steve's post.  The internship was not the reason for her volunteering, it was the way to get her vacation back so she could.  I have no idea if she wanted to be CD or volunteered because nobody else would but in either case this was handled poorly, and we may have lost one of our future stars.  Not a single NATS CD that was doing it for the first time had done it before, yet they all made it through, and another name got engraved on the Walker.  What I cannot understand is why, when the decision was being made, did they not go to Samantha and discuss it and the options before giving it to John Paris.  I have CD'd enough contests to know that nobody really wants the job but you do it anyway, and some get very good at it, so they get asked more than others.   I will state it again, I hope that this gets worked out.

Ken

[Dennis Moritz]

Samantha Hines has participated in judging at the NATs. She was part of Judging groups, observing with the group as official flights were flown. This was training. She had no official vote, but was able to see how her estimate of scores matched the official judges. Samantha was also selected to be part of the International Stunt Team as a Senior, I believe. Samantha has flown at the NATs in competition many times. Her ability of manage large projects would have been clearer, if Samanths's work history had been inquired about and discussed.

[jose modesto]

Samantha. What know
1) National champion
2) Junior team member 2018 WC
3) Nats judge ( multiple times )
4) Really Smart
Just a few of her accomplishments
PS she volunteered wen no one else would
Thank you Samantha
Don’t quit fight for yours
Jose modesto

[Doug Moon]

Wow!  WOW!  Now PAMPA and all of us are a bunch of sexist men. Thanks..

I happen to know that nothing could be further from the truth.  Dan McEntee nailed it in his post!!!! 

I have also seen, from afar, nothing but help, praise, and admiration offered to Samantha over the years as she has been involved in this hobby.  Note: Jose's lists she's got it going on in stunt.

Dave was presented with a tough situation for sure. He has been begging for a long time for someone to step up, and Bob Hunt has been shaming us as well for a long time about getting this done. But as normal human behavior would have it nothing happens until it absolutely has to happen.

One a person has offered to run the nats. Awesome! She has been involved in the hobby for many years and knows many of the contestants personally. Also her father has been around the hobby/event for a long time as well. Should be able to get through it.  Everyone is a rookie at some point right? BUT, they will also need some sort of an internship to get cleared to get the time off to be there.  From Steve's post it was hard to tell if the internship was approved for her time off or not.  Or if that was still up in the air and could possibly be declined.  If that happened the nats would be a real bad spot. And it was not clear if the AMA was onboard with that or had to do anything with it in order for the internship and time off to get approved. If it was cleared and she had the time off it wasn't clear to me, my bad.

Another person steps up and offers to run the nats who has some experience running contests in the past and does not need special provisions to get the time off needed. This person also knows the community well.

Steve posted Dave's email and nowhere did he make the assumption that Samantha couldn't handle the nats because she is a woman. Furthermore he never said she couldn't handle it at all. That is such a slight on Dave and so unnecessary.  He did not deserve her response, that was uncalled for. It's no wonder Dave doesn't want to deal with this stuff anymore.  Thank you for your service Dave. He simply said in a very round about way the people, AMA and contestants and internet jockeys, at the nats can be a real pain in the ass and it's not very fun when things go sideways. And they always do, see this past year and the weather debacle Dave had to deal with.

A simple phone call would have alleviated alot of this for sure. 





   

[Derek Barry]

Samantha, 
 Thank you for volunteering to be the Nats ED. I'm sorry it didn't work out. But about that...

...Doug and Dan were spot on.

 The Nats ED role isn't just a one week gig either.  It usually starts well before January and consists of finding judges, pit bosses, tabulators, score runners, donors for awards, arranging accommodations for the pilots meeting, appearance judging, banquet,  getting grass cut for a few weeks before,  getting T-shirts for the crew, buying reams of paper and ink for printers, learning Howard's program, and many other things. This is all before you get to Muncie. I'm not saying you aren't capable,  but it's a lot of work before you ever show up.

Samantha,  it is sad that you would accuse people who have supported you all these years of sexism or anything else like that, simply because you didn't get your way. Real leaders have to make difficult decisions, and stand by them. That is what Dave did here. Doug, Dan, and Dave himself, did a very good job of explaining it.

 Your reaction to this whole thing makes it clear that you might not have the right tempement to manage the high stress situations that occur at the Nats.

I think the correct decision was made.

Derek

[Perry Rose]

Where is the other side of the story?

[SteveMoon]

If this is how the Hines family reacts to disappointment, then I think it is safe to
say that nobody from the Hines family needs to be involved in running the Nats.
Lashing out, calling names and accusing people of certain offenses may work
just fine in the mainstream media, but that kind of victim mentality won’t do you
one bit of good when a problem or situation arises during the contest. And, as we
all know, there is always something unforeseen that arises.

I remember, quite clearly, judging Samantha as a Junior in the Walker Cup flyoff.
I also remember offering encouragement and advice afterwards. So, her claim
of sexism, ageism and other crybaby s**t is way off base from my point of
view. This whole situation is thoroughly disappointing, but not too surprising.
I think Dave’s done a good job dealing with a difficult situation and I applaud
hus effort. I also applaud John Paris for volunteering, as well. John is a great
guy and I’m confident he’ll do well.

Later, Steve

[Ken Culbertson]

I have come to the conclusion that this issue does not belong here.  None of us have the full story and the more I hear and read the more I become convinced that this was one of those situations in life where everybody has good intentions, but everything just goes wrong.   We are all saying things, myself included, based on what we think happened.  Those things are hard to take back if we turn out to be wrong.   Maybe we have learned a thing or two from this...probably not.

Ken

[Tim Wescott]

Wow!  WOW!  Now PAMPA and all of us are a bunch of sexist men. Thanks..

Well, quite obviously, no.  Either PAMPA has been a bunch of sexist men all along, or it hasn't and there's a misunderstanding.

But, definitely, getting publicly huffy because a problem has been elevated is a good way to kick dirt over it.

[Mark Luman]

Steve,

Being online when you made the decision to make your "Opinion" public in a very unprofessional and quite frankly childish manor certainly does not help your ill placed arguments.  Your accusations you made toward the organization as well as personal attacks on PAMPA resulted from disappointment that the LAST minute volunteering and request that had conditions was handled wrong. For Months it has been well know this position needed to be filled.  During your accusations you even brought up the "Race" subject to sensationalize your OPIONION in a public live forum, way over the line for this situation. Your anger was created only because you and a family member in your opinion was slighted in some way.  You mentioned issues from past years that seemed to in your mind support your ill placed accusations and fueled the fire so to speak.  If the past issues were such an issue and no action or outburst back then to support your accusations why would they now be related, they are mute points in regards to this situation.

Simply put, time was running out and as most know with out a quick decision this late in the game could have resulted in not having Nationals.  This requirement for an internship created more steps and an unknown timeframe for approval to complete. President of PAMPA was up against the wire and made the decision properly given the circumstances.

If your decision is to be done with PAMPA and CL due to the choices made in a critical situation then I would like to thank you for your advise and involvement and the same to Samatha for her experience and involvement in the hobby.  I have only herd great things about Samatha's flying and would be a shame to loose her experience over a misunderstood situation. Nothing about this was sexiest or any of the other accusations but understand you have your options as well as I do and others that are just hearing of this situation.



 

[Dennis Leonhardi]

I have come to the conclusion that this issue does not belong here.  None of us have the full story and the more I hear and read the more I become convinced that this was one of those situations in life where everybody has good intentions, but everything just goes wrong.   We are all saying things, myself included, based on what we think happened.  Those things are hard to take back if we turn out to be wrong.   Maybe we have learned a thing or two from this...probably not.

Ken

 

As usual, Ken, your response displays wisdom ...  Life is a journey, not a destination.  We seem to grow old too fast and wise too slowly.

Dennis

[Steve Hines]

"I don't see it as a bad opportunity for Samantha to be involved as an assistant E.D" Dan did you know that she volunteered for assistant E.D.  Dennis thought that that she should fly her last year as a senior. He told her to just fly and the thought he would still be able to get someone. You guys think Dave did such a job, told her ok that worked for him. Then I had to call her and tell her the news. He did not go to her with any concerns, he did not call her tell 9 hours later. Now I know that that did not happen till after Dennis called him. Glad you all think Dave is such a stand-up guy. Some of you were worried that Samantha would have a problem with the bar set that low.

[Mark Weiss]

Someone a lot smarter than me encouraged me to follow this path whenever possible: "Always feel your emotions but never act on them." When I fail to do this, I always end up apologizing to someone because I did not like their actions. End of that sermon

There are some important issues that have not been addressed here that I feel need to be now. I volunteered in 2019 because I was afraid the Nats would be cancelled and never to return. I have always felt an obligation to carry on the tradition of those folks before us. But, the system is broken and has been for years. A few PAMPA members have volunteered because no one else would. The past four years prove that point. We have no system in place to make this work. So, if we go on this way, more people are going to be offended or burned out. What happened here is not the problem, but merely a symptom.

We need to take a serious look at what we are doing and make smart changes. For example, why not have a person interested in being the ED first be an Asst and take the reigns the following year? I believe this took place sometime in the past, before I was active with PAMPA.

Joe Daly and I spent a good portion of last weekend working on ways to make the job of CD simpler and therefore more attractive. It can be done. Recruiting NATS leadership for the following year needs to be seriously addressed soon after the current Nats has been completed. I will get off my soap box.

 I was lucky enough to recruit four ladies to do the tabulating in 2019. I made a mistake of bringing too many judges and they produced thousands of sheets of paper that had to be input.
It was the most difficult and trying position in that NATS. They were awesome! I asked them not because they were woman but because I knew they could get the job done and work well with Derek, Mark O and me. Being a tabulator is not a petty, beneath my dignity job. It is brutal. I just cannot let that go about this event being unfair to anyone! They consistently worked 12+ hour days everyday along with Derek and myself/

I truly hope Samantha sticks around. We have a terrific relationship and I hope to see her in Muncie, Brodak, and anywhere else. Let's work together to fix the underlying problem. It is fixable

[Howard Rush]

I was lucky enough to recruit four ladies to do the tabulating in 2019. I made a mistake of bringing too many judges and they produced thousands of sheets of paper that had to be input.
It was the most difficult and trying position in that NATS. They were awesome! I asked them not because they were woman but because I knew they could get the job done and work well with Derek, Mark O and me. Being a tabulator is not a petty, beneath my dignity job. It is brutal. I just cannot let that go about this event being unfair to anyone! They consistently worked 12+ hour days everyday along with Derek and myself/

I think Mark holds the record for judge recruitment, and his success in tabulator recruitment was not because he was lucky.  I hope he recruits for future Nats.

There are two tiers to tabulating: the first is data entry.  It requires two people plus another to keep the scoresheets organized plus reserves if you can recruit them.  The second tier is a person who oversees the pilots' meeting, looks after the computing equipment, is familiar with the Nats process and Microsoft Excel, can read and follow a script, has the mathematical sophistication to understand the consequences of going off-script, and is assertive enough to thwart misguided, yet well-meaning innovation.  The latter gig requires extensive preparation before the Nats and is essential for a fair, accurate, and objective contest.

[Steve Hines]

I will get to all of you sooner or later.

Well Doug, I see you came right out with the sexist thing. Did you read what Samantha wrote. Show me where she ever said or inferred that he or PAMPA was sexist. She felt that and gave a reason why. Feeling are nether wrong or right they are feeling. Why didn't you pick up on ageist? In psych one you learn if someone is truly offended by something it because they know what there are.

You said dan nailed it, He has not read anything about her in a while, maybe if he was there doing something he would have seen it. The only nats she missed from 2010 was 2020, back in2021.

You and other said hard it is to be ED, what does that have to do with price of bread. It seems Dave thought she was qualified at first when he excepted her offer. If there was any doubt later they could have ask her for her Qualifications. Dont know if any know but Howard ask if she would look at the circle seating program, and she said yes. Even with out that she still may have been as or more Qualified as John.

Steve   

 

[Steve Hines]

Perry Rose, yes where is the other side, where are the other people Dave talked too before the decision was made.

Steve

[Mark Luman]

Steve,

Are you seriously trying to deny that Samantha used the sexist comment?? Both in the Public live feed of Stunt Hanger Hangout you read her letter and then posted here in this forum.  Additionally you ranted about it being sexist on the live feed, your exact words were your thought this was a sexist thing and tried to make examples referring to tabulators and other positions that addressed your attempt to support your opinions, wich probably is still up on YouTube for not only members but the general public.  Your delusional and arrogant attitude that you can post and spout off YOUR opinion, make accusations and when not agreed with you can't understand and try again to sway those whom are in disagreement of your ill faded accusations. In your most resent reply you then mention Ageist, during the live forum you struggled with the word and in fact another member had to inform you of what the definition was. My issue with your approach to this is the use of the public forum to sensationalize you thoughts and opinions and personal attacks.

[Craig Beswick]

As I said very early on, a private matter made public.

A side note, "Feelings", have no place in a conversation or argument.

Clearly, Steve, your, "Feelings", are hurt and I'm sorry to say you have made that very well known and allowed it to effect your discussion.

I commented that Samantha could stand up for herself, which she did, with her very first post on Stunthanger. Welcome to Stunthanger and good for you Samantha.

We have not heard from Samantha since, yet you have taken the bull by the horns to what end? You said, at some point, you wanted everybody to know Dave wasn't a good guy. At what stage are you vindicated and put this, now, unseemly spat to bed?

Do yourslelf a favour mate let your daughter fight her own battles. From what I have read she is more than capable of looking after herself.

Craig

[Mike Griffin]

I guess it is true, history does repeat itself.  This will not end well.

Mike

[Dave Harmon]

It would help a lot if a proof reader would correct some of the gobblty goop wording.

[EricV]

Decorum. I urge not only Steve, but all of us to look it up and refresh ourselves on the definition.

I'm as guilty as anyone to letting loose on the keyboard in the past and believe me I'm embarrassed, but willing to admit it... I've been working hard to fight that weakness lately.

The Golden Rule should apply here, even more so amongst friends. We all should give each other the benefit of the doubt, and hope for the best outcome instead of assuming a bad motive and feeling slighted. The silver lining is that it leads to a longer and happier life.

As to the others, and some of my closest stunt friends here, I urge you to bow out of this, nothing more is really left to say where any good will come of it.

This is one of those rare times I really do hope the Admin dumps a thread. It doesn't exactly put our best foot forward.

EricV

[Ken Culbertson]

Decorum. I urge not only Steve, but all of us to look it up and refresh ourselves on the definition.

I'm as guilty as anyone to letting loose on the keyboard in the past and believe me I'm embarrassed, but willing to admit it... I've been working hard to fight that weakness lately.

The Golden Rule should apply here, even more so amongst friends. We all should give each other the benefit of the doubt, and hope for the best outcome instead of assuming a bad motive and feeling slighted. The silver lining is that it leads to a longer and happier life.

As to the others, and some of my closest stunt friends here, I urge you to bow out of this, nothing more is really left to say where any good will come of it.

This is one of those rare times I really do hope the Admin dumps a thread. It doesn't exactly put our best foot forward.

EricV

I agree that the thread should be closed but I fear that another one will just be opened.  Keep it here.  There was a huge sign on the back wall of one of the 4th TFS maintenance hangars at Eglin AFB back in the late 60's.  It read "No Airman is totally useless; he can always serve as a bad example".  It is probably gone now, or at least reworded to be PC but, that is how I feel about this.

Ken

[bob whitney]

first let me say, i feel being the NATS stunt ED.is the hardest job in control line . i have been the NATS Racing ED at least 3 times and judged expert class stunt at Brodaks and the KOI .also helped with the free flight KOI. none of this qualifies me to be the nats stunt ED
 call this what you want but the ED needs to be in the IN GROUP or close to it it,to be able to CON people to spend a week in the sun and wind.it  is almost a full time job .getting all the support people, making sure all needed supply's are on hand like water for the judges.making sure you have enough people for the whole week,.like said, making sure the grass circles are ready and the L PAD is as ready as it is going to be
  the ED must be thick skinned as he will make decisions that will make flyers who are your friends very unhappy at the moment but that night he needs to be able to sit down that night and have a drink with them. assistant ED then ED, just my thoughts RAD

[Bill Morell]

Sure glad I don't compete. Doesn't seem to be much fun.

[James Holford]

God I miss Control Line and its soap opera persona......


 But Doug and Dan is right.      oh and SteveMoon

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Dwayne Donnelly]

Sure glad I don't compete. Doesn't seem to be much fun.

Don't let this get to you, I promise being at a contest is great fun, sorry this stuff is being posted on a open forum for all around the world to read. 

[Bill Morell]

Actually I have been to several including the first VSC. That one was very cool.

[wwwarbird]

 This argument is all just another gradual step toward total C/L extinction. The day will come, guaranteed. The only hope of at least prolonging it's existence, especially competition, is for the "elders" to be ready and willing to hand over certain reigns. This, and tutor the upcoming interested generations in all the related and necessary aspects, and that "interested" pool is extremely small. Nothing against John P., he's a great guy, but what I see here is a missed opportunity.

[wwwarbird]

It would help a lot if a proof reader would correct some of the gobblty goop wording.

 Yep, and spelling, usually carries a bit more weight that way.

[Steve Hines]

Mark
That is what I'm saying! You can go back and watch the video, and i stand by what I said. I like how you and other said this is just a misunderstanding. What did Samantha misunderstand, that She volunteered, and it was accepted under one thing that had to happen. A day and a half later she got a Email 9 hour later with a half ass excuse. I will say that again 9 hours. Well Mark I will let you come to a conclusion on this one. Samantha wanted to judge at the nats, after judging at Brodak. She was told she would have to do two years of training first. She sat in the hot sun for two years at the nats. Even gave up flying advance the year she won intermediate the one year. So now she volunteers and was told they could not accept because they did not think, that some people would not accept a teenager scoring them. Then I think it was two you later the one Daly boy actually judge Samantha and adults. I believe he was a year younger than Samtha would have been. You know there was not even the two years of training. You can put a name to that because i don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

The reason I have not posted of past events before, is because Samantha did not want me too along with others. They believed they would take it out on Samantha. Can you believe someone would do such a thing. I gesse its that sins of the father thing.

And for bring race into the show, when Samantha was done venting to me. I did said lucky your not black, to bring some perspective to what she was feeling. I also told her if she thought that being a Ed in a model airplane contest was a big accomplishment, you are shooting way to low. I think when you start your job interviews they will be more impressed with your 3.78 GPA, than you being a ED at a model contest. One of her last classes was a calculus 3 and how they use it in statistics, not introduction to algebra. People post how much work it is and what you need to know, are you kidding me. I even told her if she wants to fly, we will go to Canada, or Europa, other places. Maybe she could fly for a country who needs a woman for their team and see if the US could put up a woman to beat her. I finish with you can revisit your decision in 10 years, you be 31 and a lot of these guys will be dead or drooling on them selfies. If this gets your panties in a bunch, so be it.   

Well is all I can type one handed to night, but if Charles will allow it, we can all talk about in the after party tomorrow night.

Steve



 

[SammiHines]

Okay everyone, I haven't replied to anyone’s comments because honestly it would be very long and I feel like people aren't reading these correctly anyways, which is causing a lot of back and forth. (But I would absolutely love to address them!) If anyone wants to talk to me directly, I would be happy to. I want to make it clear this is not me trying to throw a fit and have it get messy. I simply would like awareness to the situation, especially since I will not be flying anymore. I will be on the video chat tonight for the after party and I would love to talk to anyone who has any questions, comments, or concerns about what has been said. I would also love to clear up a lot of the confusion that is happening. Lastly, I want to make a very clear statement here. I am not only blaming Dave for this happening, and I never called him sexist or ageist, this is just what I am feeling, and I know that this was not just on Dave. To be completely honest there was an email sent from Dave to Yolanda about me being the ED (I was cc'd on this email), and Dave seemed very on board and even called it a "win-win-win" for everyone. Now, I don't like how Dave handled the situation, especially with how I found out. I really hope I can talk to some people tonight who are willing to talk about it!   

See you there,
Sammi

[Steve Hines]

Talked with AMA today, this was handed over to HR department. they knew about time constraints, but were told of the new person being put up as ED. They only approve it. The lady in HR was going to get back with Samantha to day, sound like they were still open for the idea. I would like Samantha or Dave to post the Email.

Now it's time for whoever was talking to Dave to grow a pair and speek up. I would like to see if there is a link between the other things that happened to Samantha.

Steve

[Dan Berry]

Ohhhh…… it’s certainly time for SOMETHING to happen.

[Dave_Trible]

Sammi I didn’t feel like this was the place to talk about this but I WILL respond to you here on this and will be done with the topic.
I absolutely appreciate that you came forward to offer taking this job on.  The fact John will be the ED has NOTHING to do with your qualifications, sex or anything about you personally at all.  Never did.  The real issue  I thought should be obvious to you and everyone else though I now realize I should have made more of a point about it in my message to you.  Your ability to serve as the ED came with one HUGE caveat-  an internship from AMA so that you could get time off to attend.  I immediately sent a letter (email) on your behalf to AMA to facilitate that,  and followed that up with a second email.  As of this very minute I have YET to hear a word back from AMA and doubt they are even looking at it.  I was looking a drop dead cutoff date of January 31st to have a number of things submitted to AMA - BY THE ED.  Look at the calendar.  Last weekend others were working on either finding another recruit or designing some new way to run the Nats.  On Sunday my phone rang WHILE I WAS AT WORK- yet I work most weekends.  I noticed it was John.  I excused myself from my customer for a couple minutes and ran outside to call him back.  I figured it was important.  He said he too had been holding back a bit to see how it went with you but offered to step in.  At that point I was with about a week to wait it out from AMA,  cancel the Nats altogether for EVERYONE or accept John’s kind offer.  What would YOU do?
About getting to you sooner-  I’m sorry but I had to go back and finish my work shift.  Then when I did get home that evening there was a calamity at home that I couldn’t avoid for quite a while.  During this I got a message that something was stirring on this forum .  Once I got a first chance I tried to call you- no answer.  Then I sent the message you posted above.  I did during a quiet minute at work post the message about John,  mostly before someone else jumped in at the last minute and I’d have to turn them down and so those who were working on it could stop. 
I hope you will reconsider the comments about sexism.  I am the first ED to choose a lady Assistant Director ever,  with hopes she will take the lead at some future time.  I raised ( by myself mostly) two daughters who are just a little older than you and am a proud dad just like yours.  I know they are capable of doing just about anything they wish to do. 
In closing I hope you understand if you’d have brought this up a month or two sooner and we had time to work on it the outcome might be different.  I hope you don’t give up now.  TIME was the problem here- we ran out of it.

Dave

[Craig Beswick]

Dave,
I am sorry you you had no other option than to play this out in the open forum. I'm sure you would have preferred not to. This is surely a matter for you the AMA and the 2 protagonists.

Samantha and Steve,
you have both said you are done with control line and will never fly again. That is sad. But can you now go away? What is it you want to achieve? Your sad stories of how terribly you have been treated are pathetic. Dragging up historic hurts and the struggle to be a woman in a male dominated sport makes you look desperate rather than adding to your argument This is a grubby affair played out in open court and completely unnecessary.

Samantha, now you want to, "Argue Your Case", in the privacy of the Stunthanger after party? That is not the forum you chose to make it public, yet, to further fuel this ridiculous storm in a tea cup you want to try and garner support from the 5 or 6 on Stunthanger video?

You don't like how you were treated. Fine, you have made your point. You don't like the email or message you were sent, or the time it took. Fine, you made that public. You ARE NOT going to be the ED and that is that. What else do you want? If this is the way you respond to poorly worded and unwanted news I think it is fairly clear you aren't ready for the job. Move on, life is too short!

Craig

[Ken Culbertson]

Talked with AMA today, this was handed over to HR department. they knew about time constraints, but were told of the new person being put up as ED. They only approve it. The lady in HR was going to get back with Samantha to day, sound like they were still open for the idea. I would like Samantha or Dave to post the Email.

So, how did it go? 
Ken

[Tom McClain]

A simple understanding of the relationship of AMA and PAMPA would have been helpful in this sad state of affairs.  AMA owns the Control Line Nationals not PAMPA.  PAMPA is the SIG that provides volunteer help to AMA to administer the CL NATS to AMA's satisfaction.  PAMPA can suggest and AMA approves.

So the PAMPA President suggested to Yolanda Jones (AMA Nationals) and Joyce Hager (AMA NATS Staff Director) that Samantha would be an excellent selection for ED for Precision Control Line Aerobatics.  It appears that two women at AMA did not agree.  I am only guessing here.  But Dave had to  have a suitable alternative as time was running out.  John Paris volunteered.

Therefore, sexism, ageism, misogyny, racism or any type of new victimology had nothing to do with this outcome.  Or am I missing something?

[Dennis Leonhardi]

[Craig Beswick]

Air Master bro!
Steve stated, on Stunthanger video, he and Samantha were never going to fly control line again!

Samantha stated here she was not going to fly control line again!

I don't disagree with you though, I think one, or both, will fly control line again. My point is more they have allowed their emotions and, "Feelings", to get in the way of this post. A post that never should have happened. No self control!

Craig😀.

[wwwarbird]

 I immediately sent a letter (email) on your behalf to AMA to facilitate that,  and followed that up with a second email.  As of this very minute I have YET to hear a word back from AMA and doubt they are even looking at it.

 That clears the air a bit here and seems entirely believable, the AMA sitting on their asses as usual. If it was a quad-copter/drone event you'd have their immediate attention. After all, they said it themselves, that's the "future of Model Aviation". 

[Tom McClain]

So, how did it go? 
Ken

Yes, inquiring minds want to know how did the AMA phone call go?  Especially since AMA HR does not select EDs, Joyce Hager, Staff Director and Yolanda Jones, AMA Nationals make the selection.

[Steve Hines]

Ken

Samantha heard back for the AMA, not a problem. Sense they did not have to pay her, and only have to write a letter, they were good to go. As i said before Dave called Monday and said john was going to be ED, I was no longer a time issue. Only a week for a big organization. Found out also the one girl had been out of work for 4 weeks and had just got back.

Steve

[Steve Hines]

Tom

Show what you know, Yolonda was the one I talk to today, she said she talked to her boss and was told to send it to HR. Samantha talked with a April C. Yolonda said they over the Sig but let them pic, but they would find someone if they had too. They only ok the pic.

Steve

[Steve Hines]

Craig

Well it looks like you from here, and dont know nothing about us. It will not be hard for me to quit, I dont fly control line. Unless you count the ring master round up, and have not done that in three years. Read the Subject, Done with PAMPA. That is why Samantha wants to get on to night, people cannot understand what they read. This is my post, I the one that is now calling you a Bumb ass. I will also be on tonight if you want to get on to night. This is not the place to do it, then let's do it someplace else.