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Author Topic: Don't be afraid  (Read 3694 times)

Offline RC Storick

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Don't be afraid
« on: March 31, 2009, 07:37:03 PM »
Years ago when I was first starting Viper Development I was using a OS.40 on a pipe. I had angled the exhaust stack to accept a wrap around header, so the pipe would run in the normal position. Bob McDonald had made me a header out of GAS pipe and it worked but the plane was nose heavy. No one made a aluminum wrap around header in the configuration I wanted. So I set out to make my own.

I went to out local metal suppler and bought the right size tubing. I tried and tried to bend it. I tried to heat and bend it, I tried mandrel bends, it just did not look right.. I knew it could be done as many headers were already made. I asked every one locally how to do it. No one had the answer. I thought about this for a while.

A few days had past and I knew that Aero space bent tubing without kinks or impressions. I called NASA. I had asked to speak to the head of engineering. I don't know if the person I spoke with was but what he was, was more than helpful. I had explained the whole deal to him and asked how they bent tubing. He said Nitrogen filled mandrel bent. I laughed and said I have no nitrogen or any way to get it. He thought about it for a while and said Bismuth. I asked what is it? He told me and then again I said I have no where to buy that. He asked for my address and said he would sent me a ingot.

Bismuth is a low temperature melting metal, Melts with hot watter. http://periodic.lanl.gov/elements/83.html I put it in a cup and set the cup in hot water. about 10 minutes and pored it in the aluminum tube. After the tube cooled I bent the soft aluminum like butter. I heated the tube again and pored the Bismuth out. That was in 1993. I was reminded of this today when I ran across that ingot in my tool box. A good mechanic does not know all the torque specs or measurement of any thing he is working on. However a good mechanic knows where to find the info.

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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2009, 07:57:37 PM »
Well put - I have been a successful maintenance professional for 25+ years and learned early on that admitting you don't know- and then finding the correct info is a far better solution than trying to BS your way through an issue and getting caught, or worse - damaging an expensive piece of equipment.

As one of my mentors in aviation told me once - it is great to be skilled and able to fix things on the run- but when things get tough - data wins! 

Top manufacturers pay highly trained engineers a lot of money to design and test stuff, then spend a ton more money to create the documents needed to maintain and repair the product, the info is out there- ya just gotta find it - like you did.
Bill Heher
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009, 08:04:21 PM »
Well put - I have been a successful maintenance professional for 25+ years and learned early on that admitting you don't know- and then finding the correct info is a far better solution than trying to BS your way through an issue and getting caught, or worse - damaging an expensive piece of equipment.

As one of my mentors in aviation told me once - it is great to be skilled and able to fix things on the run- but when things get tough - data wins! 

Top manufacturers pay highly trained engineers a lot of money to design and test stuff, then spend a ton more money to create the documents needed to maintain and repair the product, the info is out there- ya just gotta find it - like you did.

This also applies to painting and paint materials. If you have a paint question ask a local custom painter. Ask your supplier.
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009, 08:13:50 PM »
Sparky,

To point out the obvious----in the example you gave, the mechanic called an engineer. ;D

Cheers,
Jim
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2009, 08:17:25 PM »
Sparky,

To point out the obvious----in the example you gave, the mechanic called an engineer. ;D

Cheers,
Jim

Engineer's design it and mechanics make it work, every time. Without the mechanics this country would grind to a halt in no time flat. Who would fix it the engineers?   LL~

Thats super laughable and it reminds me of another story. In my Motorcycle club we have a machinist, Every machinist I have ever met is a perfectionist almost obsessive. We had to load a bike on a trailer and we had no tie down eyes. I said lets drill some holes. After him hem hawing with a machinists scale for about 15 min I grabbed the drill and drilled 2 holes. He said that on hole was off by .100 th. I yelled its a damn trailer for gods sake. If we had to rely on people like this nothing would ever get done.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 10:09:02 PM by Robert Storick »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009, 08:38:35 PM »
That's funny. engineers usually say the same thing about designers. Great story.
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Offline Scott Hartford

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2009, 08:40:35 PM »

Offline Keith Spriggs

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 10:04:28 PM »
MY MOTTO:

Measure with a micrometer
Mark with chalk
Cut with an axe

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 10:07:47 PM »
MY MOTTO:

Measure with a micrometer
Mark with chalk
Cut with an axe

I knew that I have seen your work!  S?P


And if you had ever seen his work in person you know this statement is BS. A true craftsman!
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Offline Michael Floerchinger

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 06:33:46 AM »
I had a limited budget when I worked for Century electric so on an initial project the management had me working on I had to do everything myself, draft the mechanical design, the electrical design, write the software, scrounge for parts in the discarded project room. The only thing I was able to buys the computer, DAC cards and the Hypotronics hypot tester. When the tester was completed (Two speed pool pump motor tester) I even had to rent the truck. Load the test and deliver it to McMinnville Tennessee!

The point being that once the Tester proved it self in testing motors on the production line the company wanted many more built, one landed me a trip to Budapest Hungary, first and only time I was in Europe. The company then hired an engineer, a drafter and a machinist to do what I was doing, that instantly added months to the completion time of the Testers. At least I did not have to drive the delivery truck anymore!

I later found out that ATI in Dayton Ohio told the company I worked for that the Tester could not be designed to do what they wanted it to do, that was why did not want to sink too much money into the project and were quite surprised when months later I had a working prototype! I think the backbone of this country survives on the do it yourselfers and free thinking mechanics, yep, do not be afraid!

Mike

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2009, 07:25:11 AM »
If Wilbur and Orville had been afraid we'd all be modeling trains only, no stunt flying.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline George

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 11:48:36 AM »
If Wilbur and Orville had been afraid we'd all be modeling trains only, no stunt flying.

And if Edison had not invented the light bulb we would all be watching television by candle light.  ;D

George
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Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2009, 12:37:13 PM »
Years ago I redesigned a controller for a radar jammer. This flew in pods on fighters and had
a bad reputation for reliability, particularly the older ones. I looked at the design and could see
why, there were about 25 mechanical switches selecting RF modulation modes. Further, the raw
switches were being used, without debouncing, in the circuitry itself. I asked why it had been done
that way (for at least 10 years) and was told that they liked to be able to switch in certain test
modes out on the flight line, just prior to launch. So I asked how many of these different "test"
configurations they had, and could they be characterized. So, they gave me a list of 4.

I redesigned the controller so that it had an EEPROM with a look up table, and a plug for a 3 position
DIP switch (external to the pod, in a test box), that allowed them up to 7 test modes, and when they
removed the test box, that was the flight mode for the current mission. I also wrote them a  program
where they could use their PC to easily set up modes and reprogram the EEPROM.

Although my design was sterling, functioned perfectly, and used all mil-spec components up to the vibration
and thermal environment, it was rejected by their senior technician, who immediately installed the old
controller.. So, nothing was changed, and the problems persisted.

A couple of years later I was visiting the area again, and found them running my configuration program
and programming EEPROMs for a mission. The senior technician had retired, and they had quietly reinstalled
my controller and been using it for almost a year.

Long ago I adopted the handle "Evil Engineer" after a manager had said they had to keep engineers simply
because they were the lesser of evils.. I think the senior tech agreed; he didn't like the idea of some
some whipper snapper (I was 35 at the time) coming in and fixing something in his bailiwick. And HE had
designed the mess of switches. Further, the guy had flunked out of engineering at differential equations,
and simply resented ALL engineers from there on. So, my problem had been one of poor handling of a
fellow human's ego.

At the time, I was pretty cocky and full of myself. Now I'm older and would have handled it differently,
sat down, and got him involved in the design, and made him feel I was working for him, designing to his
specs, while quietly doing things the right way to get the job done properly.

There are definitely educated idiots, but there are uneducated idiots as well.

I'm guilty of having similar (perhaps unjustified) pre-attitudes toward management as well. And I can tell
many stories about management who couldn't find its butt with both hands and a GPS fix. But I've also
had at least three managers in my own career who have been inspirational, and I would do anything to
support them.

Face it, we all develop attitudes and inclinations about everything we encounter.
It's only human.

L.

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert
 saying it can't be done." -Peter Ustinov



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Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2009, 12:06:58 AM »
The company I work for hired a "green" engineer several months ago.  The guy was very intelligent, but did not have direct experience with some of the things for which he was responsible.  He volunteered to work in production for several weeks.  Experience added to education in an already sharp guy seems to have made a huge difference in his effectiveness.  If nothing else, he now communicates much better with his counterparts in production.  On the other hand I've worked with some folks that never seemed to "get it."  I guess what I'm saying is that there are first rate mechanics and first rate engineers.  There are also mediocre mechanics and mediocre engineers.

More to the point of the original post -- "if you don't happen to know something, know who to ask."
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
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never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline Bill Gruby

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2009, 05:59:39 AM »
And if Edison had not invented the light bulb we would all be watching television by candle light.  ;D

George

 Extremely good topic Robert. Very enjoyable.

 George, Edison did not invent the light bulb. He invented the Carbonized Filament inside thus improving on a 73 year old invention. Sir Humphrey Davy is the original inventor in 1806. Then came Warren de la Rue in 1840, then Frederick de Moyleyns in 1841. Then Joseph Swan in 1878 and finally Edison in 1879. You could say that Edison was the inventor of what we know to be "Carbon Fiber"  S?P

 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/who_invented_the_light_bulb

 "Billy G"  H^^
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2009, 10:49:28 AM »
The bismuth alloy is actually called "Cerro-Bend", and comes from a supplier in PA.  Sorry, don't have details, but a Google search on the name should be sufficient.  I used Cerro-Bend to make molds, over which I hammered soft aluminum to make cowlings, etc.  It can be used over and over.

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Offline Pinecone

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Re: Don't be afraid
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2009, 05:26:18 PM »
If you have Cerrobend, watch using it.  It contains both lead and cadmium.  Both are fairly toxic.  So handle with gloves and good ventilation when melting and pouring.

Cerrosafe is a safe version.

BTW Cerrobend is also know as Wood's Metal.
Terry Carraway
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