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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Terry Bentley on October 02, 2018, 08:54:56 AM
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I was wondering how many have used the doctors exam table paper and what do you think of it.
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I bought about a dozen rolls of his material and find it to be a good (but not perfect) substitute for the old Silk Span. However, I must add that I am not any real craftsman concerning the building and finishing of a CL plane. Here's a picture of my latest endeavor using this substitute. The stuff is good enough for me! Let the pros mention their ideas.
Joe
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I agree with Joe's assessment. I found it to be a little more fragile that the old good silkspan. But that could be due to my fat fingers as well. I was not really impressed with it. Polyspan is better.
Mike
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Hi Terry,
I have used the doctor's exam paper on several of my planes. Please be aware that it must be "crape" paper and there are 2 grades of paper. The TIDI 981002 is the lighter weight crape paper, similar to lightweight silkspan. The TIDI 916213 is more like a medium weight silkspan. The lightweight paper is great for cover bare wood. My Gladiator and Circulas 60 was covered with the medium weight paper with excellent results.
Sparky has a video where they "test" the doctors paper on YouTube:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_4Yvi_YBGk).
Dennis
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Hi Terry,
I have used the doctor's exam paper on several of my planes. Please be aware that it must be "crape" paper and there are 2 grades of paper. The TIDI 981002 is the lighter weight crape paper, similar to lightweight silkspan. The TIDI 916213 is more like a medium weight silkspan. The lightweight paper is great for cover bare wood. My Gladiator and Circulas 60 was covered with the medium weight paper with excellent results.
Dennis
Having eyeball'ed Dennis' planes in person, all I can say is; whatever Dennis did, we should do. Holy Toledo his planes look phenomenal.
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I used it to cover my Zilch X-pendeble. An Umland kit. It went on just like the tried and true Silkspan. I'd say a bit more delicate then Silkspan. Use a good dope brush.
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Do a search in the finish section and see my results using the want a be paper and SLC. Latest planes. if I can find them.
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Every time I read one of these threads, I become more and more happy that I stocked up with actual silkspan.
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Every time I read one of these threads, I become more and more happy that I stocked up with actual silkspan.
I wish I had Randy.
Mike
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What's wrong with Sig silkspan? Seemed fine when I ordered it from them. https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue?variant=465592188937 😁😁😁😁😁
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What's wrong with Sig silkspan? Seemed fine when I ordered it from them.
How recently was this? Last I knew they were out of it and their supplier was history.
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wwwarbird I ordered it in April. Call Sig. THEY GOT IT. ☑️ Question: How do you convince the control line stunt community there is no longer a silkspan shortage? Answer: You can't! LL~ https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue?variant=465592188937 Call them. They have it. ➡️ 1800-247-5008
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Believe me I'm not one to try and convince the stunt community that silkspan is no longer available or that there is a shortage.
However, I do like making other aware that there are alternatives. The time I needed silkspan the only material available was from Brodak. I tried it and was very disappointed with the results. I've also tried Polyspan as well. With Polyspan, it is very strong but takes a considerable amount of dope to fill the material, then you have to deal with the "fuzzy's" if you sand through and the filling of the holes can be a pain. I've tried Monokote and I'm just not very good with it.
To cover a full-size stunt ship I would need four sheets of silkspan. From Sig's website a sheet of silkspan cost $2.90, that would be $11.60 plus $9.95 for shipping, my cost is $23.20.
When I bought my case of 12 rolls 18 months ago, I paid $26.00 and shipping was free. I'm sure the price has risen since then. That worked out to be $2.16 per roll. Each roll is 21" wide by 125 feet long (that's "feet" not inches). One large full-size stunt ship will use about 12 feet. One roll will cover roughly 10 full-size stunt ships. With 12 rolls I had more than I will ever need in my lifetime.
Purely from a cost standpoint you get more "bang for the buck" with the doctor's paper. Sure I could have sold the extra rolls and recup my cost, but I didn't.
Most important to me is that I can't tell the difference between the doctor's paper I use today and the silkspan that I used 40 years ago.
The other nice benefit to purchasing a box of 12 rolls --- it makes for a nice gift to give a roll to fellow modelers. ;)
Dennis
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wwwarbird I ordered it in April. Call Sig. THEY GOT IT. ☑️ Question: How do you convince the control line stunt community there is no longer a silkspan shortage? Answer: You can't!
You could, if someone who had both types could compare the two, which to date, I haven't seen.
Brett
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Wow, SIG has SGM silkspan. 3.03 a sheet. Yikes.
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When Brodak came out with what they were calling silkspan I ordered some of it to try. I am not sure what it was but it certainly was not what we had acess to years ago that truly was silkspan. I covered one wing with this stuff and threw the rest of it away.
Like Randy Powell, I still have a few sheets of the "good stuff" we used to buy years ago and unless SIG has found some new super secret source for the material we used years ago, I don't believe it exists anymore.
Here is a tip for those of you who are using Polyspan in case you did not know it. It has an upside and a downside and if you reverse it, you will have the fuzzies like mentioned above. If your eyesight is like mine, it can be extremely hard to tell which is which and the best way to tell is to candle it under a bright light. You can also put a dab of Elmers white glue on your fingertip and let it dry and then drag it over the surface. It will snag and drag on the down side. The upside is shiner than the down side but sometimes it is really hard to tell. Also, if you buy it from Tom Morris, he rolls it on the carboard roll with the upside to the outside of the roll and he used to put a little red sticker dot on it as well. I have not bought any from him in a while so I do not know if he still does this or not.
If you do by accident apply it with the wrong side up and it gets fuzzy, you can apply more dope, let it dry and wet sand it with 1000 grit sandpaper until you eliminate it. I have done it and it works. Yes I have put the wrong side up...do it once and you will learn to be very careful about finding the right side up.
If anyone does truly find a source for the "real" silkspan like we use to buy years ago, please let us know. As Brett said, you would need to have a piece of the orginal and compare it to the new.
Personally, and I really hope I am wrong, I don think the good silkspan exists anymore but I sure would like to think it did.
Mike
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Thanks to Randy Cuberly I have a roll of Dr. paper and it works just fine....and the grain is lengthwise.
I have some Brodak 'silkspan' and the grain is ACROSS the sheet....ie...the wrong way.
I suppose it would work just fine if I wanted to splice the paper.....naaaa..
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You could, if someone who had both types could compare the two, which to date, I haven't seen.
Brett
When this subject first came up a few years ago now, I did some research on the TIDI website and asked for a sample of the part number in question in the original thread about it by email. A few days later, a whole roll showed up at my door. It looked and felt the same to me. I did some more research into another part number and it turned out to be the lighter stuff. I had some original packaged silk span in the medium and light weight grades and compared them on a Ohaus gram scale. Equal size sheets of the docspan (as some call it now) weighed only a few tenths of a gram different on the heavy side. I tried soaking it in water and handling it like you would when covering something wet, and it handled well, didn't break up or fall apart. Laying on a table they look the same , but holding a sheet up to a lamp lets you see the difference in the light and heavier paper.I have covered a couple of wings with it in the usual manor and it does not seem fragile or weak to me. The exam paper has some fine powder on it that turns milky but hasn't been a problem, and may account for the slight extra weight. I think it is the same stuff, if you get the TIDI brand. I have not seen any of the other brands that some have tried. I have posted extensively about my experiences with it and some one else out there did the same weight experiments as me and got the same results, I just can't remember who it was. I was emailing with some one else about this subject a few months ago when I found an auction on eBay for the heavy TIDI paper for 25 bucks a case shipped, so I got another case. About the same time I saw it mentioned here that silk span was showing up on web sites and even K&S had it listed again, so it looks like we are all "covered" if we need paper covering!!! Brett, if you want to see some samples, PM me your address and I'll send you a couple of sheets of each (heavy and light) for you to play with if you want. Again, there have been several, lengthy threads on this subject, all you have to do is look and read.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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All I know is I covered my Spitfire wing with silkspan some 14 years ago with Sig silkspan that I had bought a few years prior. The new stuff from Sig I used to cover the Spitfire's fuse, replace an open bay on the wing, and repair a puncture on the wing. I couldn't see any difference and won't hesitate to use it again. Just my two cents, or whatever it's worth.
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You could, if someone who had both types could compare the two, which to date, I haven't seen.
Brett
Yeah, I do wonder if the stuff Sig is selling now is the same as the Medium they always used to sell. I have my doubt's.
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New medium Sig silkspan is 9.9 grams. Anyone have a sheet of the old? We may have to send the samples for a DNA match. 🧐
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New medium Sig silkspan is 9.9 grams. Anyone have a sheet of the old? We may have to send the samples for a DNA match. 🧐
I probably have K&S GM and OO. But the weight is not necessarily the issue, it's the wet strength and toughness that seemed to be missing in the other substitutes. I also have a roll of the exam table paper than Dennis Nunes gave me, it doesn't look quite the same but it looks usable, if you want to use paper products instead of polyspan (which is much, much tougher but doesn't add the same rigidity).
Brett
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https://easybuiltmodels.com/index.htm
Easy Built Models has medium silkspan. As far as I can tell, it is identical to what we used years ago. I can see no difference. I use it to cover bare wood.
On wing open bays, I will try Thermal Span. Polyspan is fine but I think Thermal Span is a little better. It has no grain and is as strong in the chord-wise direction as span-wise.
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Well, I am new to this game. I grew up in the RC Monokote world, and covering in dope is something new to me. I've only done three models in dope, so I can only give a beginner's impression. I have no preconceived notions about what Silkspan is supposed to be like. In fact, I think the first time I saw Silkspan was back in the early 80's when I bought a SIG Akromaster kit on a whim, but never built it. I thought the paper included in the kit box was just part of the packing to keep the wood from moving around and getting broken, so I tossed it...
I got a roll of the doctor's exam paper from a member here earlier this year, and I just went with it for covering. As I said, I don't know how it's supposed to be compared to 'real' Silkspan. From a neophyte's perspective, what I see is that the exam paper works, and it's 1/48th the cost of SIG's Silkspan. I guess ignorance is bliss on the pocketbook.
Mark
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Mark...this is a hoot "I thought the paper included in the kit box was just part of the packing to keep the wood from moving around and getting broken, so I tossed it..."....
I had a friend* who has several models...all in MonoKote and as we chatted about modleing in our younger days he said he was kind ticked that the instructions mentioned nitrate, silkspan and final dope coats... but local hobby store did not have silkpsan so he bough monoKote.... So I asked..what was wrong with the silkspan in the kit.... the look on his face was precious....
* I refuse to bust him out here as he knows more of my stupid stunts and ignorant exploits
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While at the doctors for a check up I looked at the paper on the examining table. It was/is much heavier than the stuff I got. Oh he says my blood pressure is still high and I have lost 50 pounds since my scare a couple of years ago. D>K