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Author Topic: tempered wire  (Read 1726 times)

Offline Bootlegger

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tempered wire
« on: November 11, 2015, 01:47:58 PM »

  How or what is the best way to remove the temper from piano wire?  Do I heat it up and let it air cool, or quinch it with water?
      Thanx...
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 02:09:29 PM »
It depends on the alloy used.  Getting steel hot and quenching it in water is the most reliable way to harden it, so that's not what you want to do if you want it soft.  I've found that even letting 1/8" diameter music wire air-cool quenches it fast enough that it hardens, except at the boundary between the hot bits and the cold bits.  To anneal steel you need to bring it up to temperature then you need to let it cool slowly.  To seriously anneal steel you bring it up to heat and bury it in hot ashes to insulate it, so that it cools down over the space of several hours.

(I'm not sure what the right hardening temperature is for music wire, but in general it's the heat where it glows dull red in a moderately well-lit room, or the heat where it won't attract a magnet any more.  The temperature depends on the alloy, so if you have no clue as to the alloy heating it up until it won't attract a magnet anymore is probably smartest).

Part or all of the hardness in music wire is there not because of heat-treating, but from the work-hardening caused by drawing it to size.  That's not something that you can duplicate by re-tempering the wire.  Moreover, getting a whole bent-wire assembly up to the proper temperature, and then quenching it at the right speed, is going to be a challenge because it'll start to quench just in the trip from the furnace to the water or oil bath.  If your need for heat treating is at all critical you may want to get some oil- or air-hardening rod and use that -- even then, you'll probably do best finding someone who has a proper furnace to heat it up with rather than trying to make it work with a torch.

If you don't want it tempered, but just want straight pieces of soft steel wire in common music wire sizes, go to a welding supply shop and get welding rod.  They'll want to sell it by the pound, but it's fairly cheap.  Alternately, you could go to a real welding shop and see if you can buy or bum a few sticks from them -- not everyone will have it (you'd need to find a place that does TIG or gas welding), but those that do may be helpful.  You can even get stainless rod which falls somewhere in between steel welding rod and music wire in hardness, and which looks a lot prettier in an assembly.
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 03:44:51 PM »
I just heat it till it's red and let it air cool. Good enough for anything we may need it for.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 05:10:49 PM »
Forget about music wire , if you want have something you can work with, buy 01 tool steel rods ,or  drill rod instead of music wire
The music wire we have today is crap

Randy

Offline JIM Nordin

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 05:39:23 PM »
I get my drill Rod from granger 

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 06:04:07 PM »
So I can assume that I can use drill rod for a flap or elevator joiner? Does it take silver solder and brazing well also?
Any other suggestions/advice will be appreciated also.
 Thanks...`
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 06:18:16 PM »
So I can assume that I can use drill rod for a flap or elevator joiner? Does it take silver solder and brazing well also?
Any other suggestions/advice will be appreciated also.

OK.  First, allow me to recover from the mental whiplash of trying to imagine why we would want to anneal a flap or elevator joiner.  Then --

O-1 steel is easy to solder, braze, or whatever.  But why in the world do you want to?  I've always been able to make flap & elevator joiners out of music wire that are just peachy, even with brazed joints.  While I haven't been at this game for decades, my just recently retired ride had about 500 flights on music wire joiners, and worked out just fine.
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 07:23:30 PM »
Todays piano wire is crap, I have seen so many failures its beyond belief , Too many fractures and breaks after just 1 bend, too many breaks after
heating the wire to soften it, and when it breaks, it looks like grey powder inside. I have 1000s of pieces of piano wire, including stuff from the 1970s, I did test on everything i could buy today in brands of piano wire
Taking  1/8 and 3/32  bending it 90 degree, the old stuff would bend 4 to 9 times before breaking, the  new stuff  breaks on the first or second bend

01 tool steel is not hard to bend into shape, then heat cherry red, quench, then temper back to a slightly softer state

Randy

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: tempered wire
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 07:40:53 AM »
OK.  First, allow me to recover from the mental whiplash of trying to imagine why we would want to anneal a flap or elevator joiner. 

Because it makes flap tweaks easier and is still strong enough to do the job.


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