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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Tom Niebuhr on February 06, 2015, 09:41:19 AM
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In the thread entitled “My Friend’s Continental” Fred Ceschinni’s beautiful Dmeco “Continental “from Brazil is shown. There is also a picture of Todd Lee’s “Continental”.
In the “OK Here We Are” thread I mentioned my list of projects. So this is the start.
Hal Debolt’s “Continental” is an airplane caught in no man’s land. It is basically an Old Timer that was kitted in 1955. It has no flaps and has short moments showing an obvious relationship to the “Stunt Wagon”. Stunt airplanes were already further developed when the kit arrived making it a non- OTS airplane and a poor choice for Classic competition.
The Dmeco (Debolt Models Engineering Company) “Continental” is small with a 42” wing span. It is smaller than the 42” “Ringmaster” but has a thicker airfoil and will fly better. It was designed for a Torpedo .19-25 or a Fox .19-.25.
So why built it?
Seeing Todd and Fred’s “Continentals” lit an old fire. When I was still in grade school I wanted to build one… even bought a kit. Over the years the kit parts and plans were lost but for some reason I still had the kit landing gear. Todd Lee had obtained drawings and accurate former details from Fran Ptaszkiewicz who worked for at Dmeco and had the rights to Dmeco kits until he recently sold them to Walter Umland.
Here is a picture of my “Continental” as of today. I will install a tip weight box and take care of a few other items and start finishing. For power I am using an original Fox .25. The results should be a fun airplane to fly.
I have many pictures of the build, but they should be in the building thread, or published elsewhere.
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I'm getting ready to build one.
I have a brand new 1956 Fox 25 to power it.
Bob Z.
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It is amazing that after all these years we are seeing a few "Continentals". Steve Bittner from Maryland is also building one.
We will be looking forward to seeing yours Bob.
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Nice work Tom. Some of these old more obscure models are so much fun to build and fly. It sure is going to be a looker, that is for sure. Don't forget to show us the finished plane.
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In the last couple of years of his life, Ted Snow, designer of the Humungous and builder of many first class scale airplanes, built one of these Continentals and it was very cute and I had a chance to fly it. It had a very tired old Fox 35 for power and it flew far better than I thought it had any right to. It was actually a very nice little airplane. Not competitive at the top levels, but certainly it would not be embarassing to fly in Classic Competition.
I've had the plans for many years since I flew Ted's and intended to build one but something always seems to get in the way!
Randy Cuberly
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Hi Tom, What a sharp little plane! Several years ago Joe Eiban, a master builder from Maryland, built one of these and brought it to one of my western Pennsylvania Fly Ins. Don't remember the power plant but it sure was a beautiful little dude. I think most of the joy of our sport is just flying for fun and I'll bet this job will give you one full load of fun!
Phil Spillman
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It's so nice to see these and other lesser-known designs (ala Jim Lee, Keith Trostle, the late Jim Thomerson and others) rather than the usual flood of Jamisons and 'Humongii'.
That was the original plan for the VSC. Unfortunately, it seems to have been overrun with the desire for high scores and 'winning'.
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It's so nice to see these and other lesser-known designs (ala Jim Lee, Keith Trostle, the late Jim Thomerson and others) rather than the usual flood of Jamisons and 'Humongii'.
That was the original plan for the VSC. Unfortunately, it seems to have been overrun with the desire for high scores and 'winning'.
Mike,
i think that only applies to about a half dozen or so fliers. The rest of us go and fly to have fun without embarassing ourselves too much. Of course most of us have no chance of winning so we just enjoy the company and the great airplanes.
Randy Cuberly
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Tommy,
This is the perfect ship for our "Super 52 Unlimited" event where we fly any model using the Old Time pattern (will be flown at the May 17, Airstormers Contest in Indiantown, FL). Lots of fun and different types of ships flown. The Super Ringmaster, the Goldberg Shoestring, the Flite Steak, my old YAK-YAK, etc. are other ships that are in that same niche and also work well in S 52.
Best, DennisT
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Nice!!!
Marcus
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Hi Tom,
Good job, it is a cute model! I just realized that i picked up a Black Hawk kit for the Continental. When i get to it, it will be built with all kit wood, etc.
What tank are you using? That looked like a problem to me,
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Since I do not want the tank vent on the top of the nose, I decided to install the fill/uniflo tube inside the inboard cheek. This is also how Todd Lee did it on his Continental.
A 45 degree cut was made in the cheek just aft of the engine and the forward section of the cheek was removed. Then a 1/8” dia. hole was drilled through the engine mount. A 1/8” dia. Soft brass tube was bent at 90 degrees. The brass tube protrudes inside the nose for the tank hook up and forward outside the fuselage and inside the cheek. A balsa brace is installed for support. The brass tube is then cut so that it is just inside the forward end of the cheek.
The aft section of the cheek was plugged and the inside of the forward section was coated with epoxy for fuel proofing. The forward section was then reinstalled.
The good news is that the imperfections have been corrected and the first 2 coats are now on the bare wood. This will be followed by sanding with 320 paper followed by more nit picking and more dope before applying carbon.
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Looking great Tom!
The Continental has been one of my favorites since it came out in 1955. Our local hobby shop got one; I drooled over it for too long, and my good friend Jack picked it up. He installed a K&B .35 - Green Head, of course - which seemed like way too much engine and weight. It's a light structure!
Russ Gardner of Maryland built this one - his wife Christine holds - and flew it to 2nd place in Stunt/CLPA at the 1955 Air Force Finals. So it's been around for 60 years!
The Fox .25 from the '50s sounds just right - that is one sweet running engine that just keeps ticking. And runs just like a smaller Stunt .35 should.
I offer kit plans for the Continental, and Action Hobbies (Eddie) provides laser cut parts at a very reasonable price (see the vendor section).
Dennis
http://stores.ebay.com/airclassix (http://stores.ebay.com/airclassix)
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Hello Tom! nice topic! will be watching!
indeed the look of the Continental is awesome, i never cared if it would fly good or not, just had to build one!
since i didn´t have a good plan (internet outerzone was the source) i had to guess the ribs and most of the formers...
also, i was heavy handed on finish and final weight was about 1,080KG
the os max 20 handles the plane, but looping is a handfull as the model stalls midway , tried 4 times and gave up
i had added a lot of lead to the nose, i think the CG on the plans are too forward, i took off most of the lead and will try again to see if performs better
anyway the model at least won a best of show trophy at our "old time" meeting last year
look forward to see your plane completed!
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Fred,
I had no idea that so many people would be interested in the "Continental".
Everyone that I have talked to who have flown a Continental told me that it is sensitive and should be flown fast.
It sounds like your airplane is nose heavy. I calculated the CG to be approximately at the rear of the main spar. That is strictly a starting point . I will start with about 64 ft. of .012 lines.
Only flying will determine your comfort zone.
It will be a couple months before I have my Continental in the air, so that is all I can tell you at this time.
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Fred,
I had no idea that so many people would be interested in the "Continental".
Everyone that I have talked to who have flown a Continental told me that it is sensitive and should be flown fast.
It sounds like your airplane is nose heavy. I calculated the CG to be approximately at the rear of the main spar. That is strictly a starting point . I will start with about 64 ft. of .012 lines.
Only flying will determine your comfort zone.
It will be a couple months before I have my Continental in the air, so that is all I can tell you at this time.
Looking good Tom! Its just a very attractive airplane. I would love to build one if hanger space and mobility was not an issue, but I have to be pretty picky with my projects. Cant wait to see the finished product!
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Here is how to quick finish the wheel pants. I have used this method on several airplanes.
Sand the bare wood with 220 paper. The apply a light coat of Z-Poxy and let it dry over night. Sand again with 220 paper apply a second light coat of Z-Poxy and again let it dry.
The results are as shown. Sand again with 220 paper and it is ready for primer.
Simple, Easy, Fast, and experience has shown that it holds up well.
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Life got in the way for a while, and I had to fight some contamination that was causing cracks to appear in the fillets. will leave some of the defects and hopefully the paint trim lines will hide some of them. I also was a dummy and applied the Polyspan wrong side up. The Continental is finally primed and ready for the white base coat.
I have to finish this to get to my new Pampa stunter and also the recreation of John D'Ottavio's never seen Jet Falcon, Classic legal, that he started about 1967.
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Here is how to quick finish the wheel pants. I have used this method on several airplanes.
Sand the bare wood with 220 paper. The apply a light coat of Z-Poxy and let it dry over night. Sand again with 220 paper apply a second light coat of Z-Poxy and again let it dry.
The results are as shown. Sand again with 220 paper and it is ready for primer.
Simple, Easy, Fast, and experience has shown that it holds up well.
If youve put Poly on wrong and you know it, bang your head HB~> HB~>
If youve put Poly on wrong and you know it, bang your head HB~> HB~>
If youve put Poly on wrong and you know it, then the finish will surely show it
If youve put Poly on wrong and you know it, bang your head HB~> HB~>
Wow...I think I exceeded my dope fume intake for tonight. Anyway, been there and done that before :D
Lookin' good Tom!
The Epoxy method of finishing is what Allen Brickhaus used. I did a couple models in my teens that way and used Lusterkote/Monokote finish. Not 20 pointers of course but it is fast, durable, and fairly light.
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Well, I am finally close to putting this project behind me. It is certainly an exercise in what no to do. First I had to remove the Popyspan that was wrong side up.. This was not the end of the night mare...You would think that after 40 years of finishing with no problems that I would have learned.
But I had to try different things....
I wanted to try the new "silkspan". In one word DONT'T..
This is not the fault of John Brodak (or Sig either) . This stuff is terrible and is not even close to the friendly silkspan that has been part of our lives.
After 6 coats of butyrate clear it did not start to fill. And as said by others, it sags between every coat but will tighten back up.
So I used Sparky's method of the NAPA primer. Yes this works, but due to the terrible "new silkspan" it took several coats. sanding between coats..
Next due to materials already used I could not use nitrate over the fillets (superfil). The result is small cracks of the paint over the fillets. Even with thin CA and primer over that, the splits are still there.
The only way to avoid this is nitrate over the bare fillets or using a catalized auto primer over the fillets (preferred).
Next I have use my own vinyl masks and have made the same of many others with absolutely no problems.
I used a metallic brown base coat the require too much reducer and than tried to rush it resulting in melting the mask edges. So, many of the letters and numbers had to touched up.
If you stand off, way off, it will look OK but to me it is possibly the worse I have ever done.
As pictured, it will wait for some decals and clearcoat until I finish John D'Ottavio's 1967 "Jet Falcon"and my new design "Ragtime" all electric stunter for Pampa stunt.
Again, Brodak and Sig are not responsible for the terrible quality of the "new silkspan".
I hope that this will help people avoid future problems.
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HI Tom, No matter what the hidden warts may be I really like your little plane! I hope it flies as well as it looks!
Phil Spillman
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Ditto! Looks good Tom.
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Looks good from here, Tom. My Dad's is silk and butyrate and was finished in 1965, not a mark on it and reminds me of when I saw Larry's original Blue Angel all those years ago when I lived in New jersey. Some formulas were very long lasting.
Chris...
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Nice Job, Tom!!! :D
Great to see the Continental so close to being "Done"!! Terrific color selection to keep that truely classic look. Anxious to hear how it flies!!
Fly Stunt,
Todd
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looks great! congratulations!
the white trim made all the difference!
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Very, very nice, Tom! I love your color choices, and the Continental will always be near the top of my list based on aesthetic appeal.
Dennis