disappointing hobby shop experience

[Wayne Collier]

Drove nearly an hour to a hobby shop that had been recommended to me by a couple of people at work (not a place that I have seen advertised on Stunthanger).  Got there and begin to notice what seemed to me to be very high prices.  Stick and paper models costing about 20% more than what I had seen at other retailers.  No control line stuff. Very little RC selection except electric park and indoor flyers.  Saw a Blade helicopter priced about 30% over what I have seen advertised.  Looked at kites and decided not to buy.  Looked at train stuff.  Saw an HO scale Southern Pacific bay window caboose for $59.99 that was very similar to one I picked up at a swap meet for 6 dollars a couple of years ago.  Pointed it out to my wife as I stood there wondering if it was that overpriced or if I just got a really good deal on the one I have.  There were plastic models priced in the two hundred dollar range.  We used to use plastic models for BB gun practice. Finally decided to pick up some glue while I was there.  About choked when I saw that a one ounce bottle of CA cost almost as much as I remember paying for a 2 ounce bottle at Mike's in Carrolton.  Decided since I was there I would go ahead and get it because I was already out the gasoline and time to get there.  Ok, I understand pricing varies by market and brick and mortar stores have to cover the cost of utilities, employees and other overhead - what absolutely shocked me was that when the clerk rang up the purchase she informed me that it was 73 cents short of the stores minimum purchase requirement and asked if I would buy a soft drink to make up the difference.  I walked out and left the glue on the counter.  I have worked in retail for years.  I understand the cost of doing business.  I can even understand mail order places adding additional charges onto small items to cover the cost of packaging.  I do not understand a store refusing to make a sale on an item because it does not meet their minimum.  I mean sooner or later I will need a prop or fuel or something.  I probably won't go there for it.

[Steve Helmick]

You were going to pay with a charge card? If so, that's the reason. Do stores pay a penalty for Debit cards? I don't know, but they pay 3% on credit cards, right? Still, I reckon you did the right thing. You can buy CA at Lowe's, Home Depot, or ACE Hardware.    Steve   

[John Stiles]

My closest hobby shop burned to the ground. I havent been to a hobby shop since...too far to go. But I guess I need to thank my lucky stars that I have an R/C buddy that is giving me as much stuff free as he's selling me. But even then, he doesn't charge tax or mark up! 

[Randy Cuberly]

Hi Wayne,
I also think you did the right thing.  The place in question sounds like they have carried the "gotta make money" thing a little too far.
However I would add a few things that you may or may not have already thought of about Hobby shops and price comparisons with advertised prices.
The big mail order houses buy items in large quantities, usually directly from the manufacturers and get a much larger discount than a Mom and Pop hobby ship possibly can.
Most manufacturers have fairly high minimum orders (usually about $1,000.00 or higher so they sell most of their stuff to "Jobbers" or middle men who can order more by supporting several hobby shops, etc..  However even they don't get the kind of discounts that the really big mail order places get.
Because of this discount pricing the big places can obviously advertise much lower prices than any local small Hobby Shop can and is probably one of the primary reasons that the Mom and Pop local places are becomming a thing of the past.  They simply cannot compete in terms of prices.
However as you mentioned when you need glue or props or wood quickly it's very convenient to have a local hobby shop nearby that can supply your needs.  Well, soon there won't be any such places...there are in fact very few around anywhere anymore.
If we don't want that to happen then we have to be willing to pay a little more (notice I said a little more, not gouging prices) to support local businesses to enjoy that convenience.
A hobby shop is a tough place to run...believe me...lots of small items to deal with always means lots of time for stocking and inventory and lots of people to do the work.  Computers have helped that immensely but it's still a pain.
I for one am willing to pay a little more to support local businesses but it is apparent that most folks aren't and for that reason they are becoming like the Buffalo...extinct.

I'm sure you were probably aware of all this already but I just thought I'd rant about the other side of the issue for a bit!

 Randy Cuberly

[Steve Helmick]

My closest "hobby shop" is one of those "Hobby Town USA" places. I hope they burn to the ground AND go out of business. Nothing but R/C cars and Park eFlyers. The other direction, there's an R/C Car shop that does carry a little airplane stuff...and at least we don't have our hopes up when we approach the door. About 50 miles south, there's a "Hobby Town" that pre-dates the chain, and is about as good as anybody can hope for these days. It could be a lot better, but could also be a lot worse.  Steve

[Wayne Collier]

I'm sure you were probably aware of all this already but I just thought I'd rant about the other side of the issue for a bit!

 Randy Cuberly

I have worked in retail and product distribution long enough to understand what you are saying. I also realize I could have misunderstood something.  I know about volume buying and such, and I expect to pay a little more for the convenience of walking up to a counter instead of watching a mail box.  I've never switched my medicines to mail order. The prices in this place seemed excessive compared to other places where I have shopped in the past couple of years. I also understand the credit/debit card expense.  I routinely do business with places that charge an additional fee for card transactions. I know there are some places that anticipate the card and mark everything up accordingly. I have known of a few places that had a "cash and carry" discount if you don't use a card.  This was not a small place.  There were lots of customers.  I had to wait in line at the register. I wasn't told about the minimum until after the purchase was rung up.  Then the suggestion was to buy a soda - not "is there something else you may need."  (I'm not a huge fan of selling up, but thoughtful clerks with good suggestions have saved me additional trips in the past.)  If the clerk that spoke to me while I was looking at the glue had given me a heads up about the minimum, I may have responded differently.

[Jim Thomerson]

I went to a hobby shop here in Austin, which no longer exists.  There were two workers (owners?).  One was putting up stock, the other helping a guy order RC car wheels.  I gathered up maybe $20 worth of odds and ends and stood at the counter with them for maybe five minutes before I left.  I never went back.

[Peter Ferguson]

I usually call first . If they don't have what I want they usually can get it pretty quick as they have orders coming in twice a week. It saves me time and gas and keeps me from having experiences like yours. There are several ok Hobby Shops around here they just don't cater to CL folk since we buy so little and what we do buy they can't make much on. I have never heard of any retail store having a minimum purchase and if it was me I would also have walked out but not before getting the owners contact info so I could inform him of his loss.

A few years age I gave my then LHS a written list of stuff CL flyers use and I reduced it down so it was a minimal investment for him. At the time he had all sorts of lines of different thicknesses and  lengths, weird color dopes of varying brands  ie. lots of unsaleable stock. My consolidated list had only 70' lines, one  of each common thickness. I did that for fuel , hardware, wood and dope also. He made an effort to stock the stuff but it was still slow going off of the shelves. Unfortunately he is no longer in business.

[Clancy Arnold]

Steve
I have to agree with you on the "Hobby Town USA" hobby shops!  The closest one to me is about 20 miles so I called ahead to verify they had in stock what I needed, a 15x6 prop for an OS FS91.  When I arrived I asked for the prop and the clerk stated that they do not stock that size.  They would have to special order it.  I told him what to do with it when they received it!

Clancy

[Shawn Lenci]

The idea of a LHS is nice but I have found for the most part they are useless; even for R/C gear.  I live in Central California and have 2 LHS within 12 miles of me.  The last time I was in one of them there was no CA to be had.  I said to myself at that time that that was the last time I'd be in that store.  If it doesn't come from Horizon or Great Planes, you won't see it either store.  The best "local" hobby shop in my area is RC Country in Sacramento, and it is an hour away.  The last time I was in there the wood selection was terrible.  I have decided a long time ago, I will  have my own LHS and it will be in my own garage.  When I need something I just order 3 or 4 times what I need at the moment and then some.  That way I will always be supplied with airplane goodies.  Several of my friends will call me and see if I have something before going to the LHS or ordering it.  I sell to them for what I paid and everyone is happy.  The fun part for me is going out in the shop and knowing you have every piece of wood, nut, bolt, motor, etc to build whatever you want without having to wait.  It saves me time, money and heartache.

Shawn

[Phil Krankowski]

The not-so-local LHS I frequent will order anything in for me from Tower Hobbies and Hobby Lobby (not the craft store, there is one of those a few miles from me I get glue at.)  He doesn't scoff at CL, but calls me the "other" CL pilot.

Yes, the bulk of his stock is foamie park flyers.  He has a pretty complete material section, probably 8 feet of wall floor to ceiling with wood, plywood, and metal, and a free standing Monokote display.

I scored a Spektrum DX6i for $20 less than anybody else, including online, because he ordered a case in for the local RC club, and I showed up at the right time.  Apparently a couple people signed up and didn't pony up cash in time so he had some overstock.

Now, about that craft store: medium and hard balsa, cutting supplies, and adhesives that are fresh.  The prices on the adhesives are better than anywhere else.

Office Depot is where I go for #11 blades though.

Phil

[Tim Wescott]

You were going to pay with a charge card? If so, that's the reason. Do stores pay a penalty for Debit cards? I don't know, but they pay 3% on credit cards, right? Still, I reckon you did the right thing. You can buy CA at Lowe's, Home Depot, or ACE Hardware.    Steve   

You pay for debit cards, too.  It's not quite as bad, but it's still there.

My LHS seems to be good because the owner strongly believes in putting the profitable stuff at eye level, and then because he's an avid RC'er he fills the bottom shelves with stuff that he likes to sell, even if it doesn't support him.

And, if you waltz in there with specific things you want to order from Tower or Horizon, he'll tack them onto his next order and charge you the Tower or Horizon price but no shipping when it comes in.

He's a good guy, and if I ever start buying ARFs, I'll buy from him.

[John Stiles]

Steve
I have to agree with you on the "Hobby Town USA" hobby shops!  The closest one to me is about 20 miles so I called ahead to verify they had in stock what I needed, a 15x6 prop for an OS FS91.  When I arrived I asked for the prop and the clerk stated that they do not stock that size.  They would have to special order it.  I told him what to do with it when they received it!

Clancy

15x6 Good Lord...where am I gonna get one of those??? You reckon it'll take that to break the 2x out of a taxi?

[55chevr]

The LHS is about to be as extinct as the dinosaur.    A retail store rent cost is in the $2500 or more a month plus electric/HVAC/telephone and payroll.  For reference that is $100 a day every day.  How can anyone cover that and be competitively priced against an internet outlet.  The internet outlets margins are tiny.  I would guess in the .05 to .10 % range.  They make money on volume.  For a LHS to exist on that margin they would need to have $1000 a day in sales just to cover overhead w/o payroll. The LHS just doesn't have enough volume and cannot justify big inventory.  We all share in the blame.  Every time buy something from Tower Hobbies we help run the LHS out of business.

[Steve Scott]

I support our LHS whenever I can but can't begin to count how many times I've driven the 10 miles to this (large) store only to find they are out of the specific prop size, color of covering or other essential item I need that day.  They're generally pretty good and try to match online prices when they can. All AMA or local club members get a 10% discount on most items.

I know one of the employees personally and he's very good although doesn't know very much about CL.  They do stock a minimal amount of CL stuff.
 
I hopped over there once to buy a medium sized electronic speed controller (retails around $90) and couldn't get anyone to wait on me.  Two young clerks were chit-chatting with each other and the other was being tied up by a customer who was asking the most basic of basic questions but obviously not there to buy anything.  All the high dollar items are in a case behind the counter under lock.  I finally gave up and stomped out.

Went to another shop further away and saw a NIB OS LAS 25 (the blue one) without a price.  I tracked down an employee and said I wanted to buy it.  He had no clue what the price should be so asked me.  I played dumb but was prepared to offer up to retail ($80).  He asked if I thought it was worth $40.  "I suppose so", I replied.  He asked the manager if he could let it go for $40 and he agreed.  They wound up charging me $39.

Another proprietor will cannibalize an ARF for a part you need then he'll order the missing part to replace what he took.  Great service but his prices are a bit higher.

[john e. holliday]

I too try to support our one shop in Over land Park KS,  Hobby Haven.   There used to be several around town,  but some of their help did not do good and cost them money.  I was upset when I was looking for some 1/2A props plus some for a .15 engine.   Was told no body uses props that small.   And I'm looking at all those ready to fly props that are about an 1 to 1 1/2 inch in diameter.   I asked if I could order and was told no orders are to be taken.  I even offered to pay for the props before ordering.   Yes I still go there for a sheet or two of balsa if they happen to have it in stock also CA glue.   

[Paul Smith]

I think the idea of a "minimum purchase" is nuts, but it's their business decision to make.  Refusing the small deal today precludes the bigger one tomorrow.

One thing that annoys me is the practice of e-order only places charging shipping and handling on every order. Since there is no walk-in bidness every order needs to be shipped so shipping should be built into the price.  E-order operators don't need to furnish parking lots, toilets, shoplifting guards, and that pesky taxation.  There is plenty of savings to be passed on to the customer.

[Clancy Arnold]

John
The 15x6 prop is for my CL Scale 1914 Jeannin Stahltaube which has an 88 inch WS.  I built it from a highly modified Nick Ziroli kit.  It is powered by an OS FS91 S I engine.
Clancy

[Jim Roselle]

I feel very lucky to have a great hobby shop here in Phoenix.  Competitive pricing and willing to order anything in. Yes they have a $10 minimum credit card purchase but several times I've been given deals on new old stock and used items so it all balances out. The reason I went with an O.S. Engine on my new build instead of something used from eBay was I wanted to order it from Franks and show them all the support I can.

Jim

[Serge_Krauss]

I just last week looked into a HobbyTown USA store about 40 minutes away and discoverd that even this store is selling off the last of what I had thought useful. Of course the real LHS is extinct, the problem being that WE are almost extinct. The ignorance and accompanying arrogance, I'm afraid, comes with our times and culture. Domb a$$es prevail. I despise it, but it is not debatable: no  one wants to build and create. SO...no one can afford to support these activities in the business realm. If you glorify unregulated free markets, here's the epitome of the results, although no market will support what we do, because no  one is educated to appreciate and enjoy it. WE are not good business, nor even a market. Some of us, our "cottage industries" who support real creativity for the love of it, are a great and underappreciated resource, and will not get monetarily rich. I hope they hear the respect and appreciation some of us show and can ignore the abuse from others. They are preservers of what's still right in our world.

SK

[Peter Grabenstein]

Hi all

Another true but sad Story about another Hobby Shop.
In my younger days (42 years ago) I was in need to buy a new needle for my ST G20/15 Glow.
No LHS in my Hometown had ST Engines and parts in stock.
So I jumped on my bicycle and drove 20 miles up North to another Hobby Shop which sells ST Engines and parts.
The shop owner told me : yes I have the needle you are looking for but wont sell to you  
because you are not of my customers or even bought an engine from me   .
I swore to myself NEVER COME BACK to do Business with such a dumb ass   .
In the longrun, I got this ST needle from another Hobby Shop 100 miles down south via mail Service,
which became an expensive ST needle  .

[Brett Buck]

If you glorify unregulated free markets, here's the epitome of the results, although no market will support what we do, because no  one is educated to appreciate and enjoy it. WE are not good business, nor even a market.

   Actually, cottage industries are *exactly* what happens in a free-market, and exactly what *should* happen. We have never had such a wide array of high-quality products for stunt for as long as I have been doing it.

    What would you propose an alternative, regulation to force hobby shops to stay in business whether or not they make a profit?

     Brett

[Randy Cuberly]

We enjoyed a pretty good Hobby Shop here in Tucson (The Hobby Barn) until a couple of years ago but Illness and retirement got the best of it and it basically closed.  It has recently reopened under new ownership and management and it seems the new owner is actually trying to make a good business of it.  They are willing to stock some CL stuff if I make a list for them of what would be needed locally.  I haven't found time to do that yet with trying to finish an airplane for VSC and doing some analysis for the U here but I'll try to get to it soon.

We do have a Hobbytown USA here which is actually pretty good.  They are of course mostly cars...they have a track and hold races for them every weekend.  But they do have a fair stock of wood and glue and the typical R/C hardware stuff.  They have one employee who was a CL flier in the past and they have begun to stock Powermaster 10-22 fuel for the CL guys and a few other items that will help out.  They are friendly and cooperative and the prices while not great are reasonable.

However, mail order is here to stay and other than the Mostly Arf stuff, Hobby shops are dead ending!  Too bad but just another fact of life to deal with.
Hey maybe someday people will actually begin to build thier own airplanes again...NOT!

Randy Cuberly

[Brett Buck]

However, mail order is here to stay and other than the Mostly Arf stuff, Hobby shops are dead ending!  Too bad but just another fact of life to deal with.
Hey maybe someday people will actually begin to build thier own airplanes again...NOT!

   The real answer to the "hobby shop" question is - Tower Hobbies/Great Planes. They have done the same thing Wal-Mart has done for many local businesses, that is, compete better by leveraging their buying power to drive down prices.

     Brett

[Serge_Krauss]

   Actually, cottage industries are *exactly* what happens in a free-market, and exactly what *should* happen. We have never had such a wide array of high-quality products for stunt for as long as I have been doing it.

    What would you propose an alternative, regulation to force hobby shops to stay in business whether or not they make a profit?

     Brett

What you have is simply people sacrificing to produce what will not make a significant (if any) profit, because they love the hobby and want to do something good. They are not rewarded in any other way. I thought I made it pretty clear what dynamic causes this. There are of course many other businesses going under, because they cannot monopolize or produce for less than larger entities; that will continue to its conclusion, on which I'm sure we'd disagree. However, to answer your question, no, of course not. We are no longer significant and will disappear with much else that is worthwhile, because we have no market value. It might do us well to consider though all that we are losing, due to living in a culture in which values are ultimately dictated by marketing and what sells. "Lowest common denominator" is the result, and variety is also diminishing. Fruit for many another off-topic discussion.

[john e. holliday]

Yes, The Hobby Barn and the Hobby Town USA out by the Wal Mart were the two shops I always tried to get to each year when in Tuscon.   Found stuff at both places that came back to KANSAS.   There used to be another shop that was mainly RC Cars with an out door track that disappeared some where.   By the way the two shops had great people to talk to.

[Brett Buck]

What you have is simply people sacrificing to produce what will not make a significant (if any) profit, because they love the hobby and want to do something good. They are not rewarded in any other way. I thought I made it pretty clear what dynamic causes this.

   Not rewarded? They are plenty rewarded in many cases, the reward is just not monetary. Randy Smith has been doing this forever, and I would guess that if it wasn't for RC pattern guys buying gigantic Bolly props, no one would have a PA61. He's been rewarded, he's a respected player in the event we all love.

   This is why individuals of a certain political persuasion *never* get it, why the endless tomes written sitting around in various debating societies are the result of ivory-tower thinking almost always miss the point.  They, and you apparently, fail to understand the psychology of economics and the motivations of individuals overcoming the simplistic equations you used to come up with the "theories". That's why socialism, for example, *always*, and I mean *always", degenerates into totalitarianism. As soon as you give someone or some small group of elites effective control of something, they basic psychology is to consolidate that control, and they can very easily rationalize it as being for "their own good".  And yet, despite this having happened over and over again, for reasons that are perfectly obvious to anyone with even a basic understanding of the dynamics - and are absolutely NOT POSSIBLE TO CHANGE- the "societal masterminds" keep trying to emulate Plato and his monstrous Utopia.

   And, I might add that your premise is also faulty in another way. No one is currently proposing an "unregulated free market". That is a strawman argument that only the psychotic fringe even considers. What many people are arguing for is relief from endless crippling regulation generated by, I'll just say it, economic imbeciles, that seem to consider successful businesses their own personal piggy banks, and anyone who is successful as having gotten their at the expense of others and therefore deserving of some sort of punishment in the name of "Justice".

   We have a clearly microscopic market that cannot be served by the simplistic model you appear to hold, so of course there aren't any local hobby shops - because not many people want or need a local hobby shop. The market serves it in a different way that you don't recognize. I can pick up the phone and almost any quantities of high quality stunt products for astonishingly low prices. Take a Jett 61 to a machine shop, tell the to make you a copy, and see how much it costs you. Thousands of dollars and it won't be right. What about the market is failing to work properly, again?

     You never answered the question - you mentioned the evils of unregulated free markets, and that this is an example of why you don't have any local hobby shops. What regulation do you propose to correct your perceived problem? I think that's a straightfoward question, you suggested it, how about a straightforward answer (before the thread get locked). We can move it to debate if you want. I would relish that, actually, if everyone is willing to debate fairly.

    Brett

[Serge_Krauss]

Brett-

Just re-read what I wrote until you don't have to ask and assume asinine questions. That diatribe was unnecessary, not invited, and as you intended, insulting. I have to wonder what kind of person gets off on berating and insulting others. If you cannot see that I said just what you lectured me on relative to profits among cottage industries and their motivations, then you need to ask yourself why that is, not me nor anyone else (assuming that 'for the love of it' doesn't imply non-monetary rewards is self-serving at best) . AND if you think I'd dignify such a childish outburst further, then you are again misguided. I have nothing further to say on this in a model plane forum, other than to thank the several of you who alerted me to this tantrum by e-mailing me your support about a simple thread in which this abuse needn't have happened.

SK

[John Stiles]

John
The 15x6 prop is for my CL Scale 1914 Jeannin Stahltaube which has an 88 inch WS.  I built it from a highly modified Nick Ziroli kit.  It is powered by an OS FS91 S I engine.
Clancy

I know  Clancy, I just forgot you used that big a prop....the 2X S-1 is 84" and the OS.91 4 stroke I got from Gunga Den. I don't know if I'm gonna have that much prop to ground clearance. I guess I could chop the tail wheel.

[Bill Little]

Well, when I go to a honest to God Hobby Shop it is Hayes Hobby House in Fayettenam, NC.  It's on Bragg Blvd. and I have now been going there for 50 years!  Still the same owners along with their son, Alan who is a board member.  If you can't find it in there, they will get it for you very quickly!  Also, no minimum purchase!  (never heard of that before in a store.........)

I am lucky!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Mark Knoepfle]

Nice shop there Bill. My bro in law is a fireman in Fayetteville... Now I have another reason to listen to my wife and go on a family visit.

[Peter Ferguson]

Randy Here is the list I gave to the LHS it could be added on to here or there but it keeps things to a minimum

[Bill Little]

Nice shop there Bill. My bro in law is a fireman in Fayetteville... Now I have another reason to listen to my wife and go on a family visit.

Hi Mark,

It is a true Mom and Pop old time Hobby Shop.  Plastics, trains, crafts, R/C, C/L, rubber powered, etc., with all the accessories, fuel, etc., etc..  You will enjoy it!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Randy Ryan]

Well, when I go to a honest to God Hobby Shop it is Hayes Hobby House in Fayettenam, NC.  It's on Bragg Blvd. and I have now been going there for 50 years!  Still the same owners along with their son, Alan who is a board member.  If you can't find it in there, they will get it for you very quickly!  Also, no minimum purchase!  (never heard of that before in a store.........)

I am lucky!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Fayettenam???

[Phil Krankowski]

Randy Here is the list I gave to the LHS it could be added on to here or there but it keeps things to a minimum

That is a nice list in that is represents only a few hundred  dollars.  Unless there is adequate turnover and interest this expense may be too much for a single location shop. 

I have been trying to talk my LHS into stocking bell cranks, lead out wire, and a few other odds and ends that amount to less than $100 retail with no luck.  He has even cut his RC glow engine stock way back and will not stock them because many more people fly electric.  I have been told that he sells 5-6 large batteries each week in the summer, but might sell 1 engine. 

I am delighted that my not-so-local LHS (about an hour drive is the closest) will order in, by phone call, many of the things on that list, however he does not have a relationship with Brodak.  Happily he deals with Tower and Hobby Lobby, as well as a few other suppliers, and will cheerfully add onto his order for me.

Depending on the cost of the order and how likely it will turn over if I failed to show he will even float the order without taking payment on the phone, instead waiting a few days for the order and myself to be in his store together.  (I think it is a $50 cut off, but it is a soft cutoff)

Phil

[Paul Smith]

Even in the "good old days", few businesses lived by model airplanes alone.

My first hobby shop was a small corner of a beer & wine shop that sold any merchandise that turned a profit.  The owner started off with plastics, then upgraded to Thimble Drome RFT and finally made the big jump to Comet & Scientific kits, COx engines and Testors paint.  Sadly, the owner finally reached the top of the waiting list and got a Michigan HARD liquor licence and instantly terminated all other products.

My other hobby shops resided as side business to bike, lawn mower, and hardware stores.  Joes, Models, and The Prop Shop were/are rare exceptions to this.   

[Bill Little]

Fayettenam???

Hi Randy,

The common name in this area for Fayetteville back in the mid-late '60s.  FT. Bragg, jump school, Pope AFB, JFK Special Forces Center............ C-130s at 300 ft. turning out over my house from a drop zone......... at 03:00hrs........

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Randy Ryan]

Hi Randy,

The common name in this area for Fayetteville back in the mid-late '60s.  FT. Bragg, jump school, Pope AFB, JFK Special Forces Center............ C-130s at 300 ft. turning out over my house from a drop zone......... at 03:00hrs........

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Ahhh got it. Tragic moniker for a town with such a nice name.

[Bill Little]

Hi Randy,

Fayetteville has really done a lot to clean up over the years and is generally a very nice town now.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[55chevr]

I did spend a few years there (66-67) ... Wasn't bad then for an Army town.

[Dwayne]

Man I am so lucky, our hobby shop is well stocked with allmost everything needed, they even carry sig dope (not online). R/C kits, electric/glow, arf, park flyers you name it, if I need anything they order it in and will do their best to match anyones prices, they also do mail order give them a try.
www.leadingedgehobbies.com

[Kozmo77]

Well guys; I'm the one behind the curve and am always asking for advice, but I do remember Mom and Pop model shops in the '50s and they were super hangouts. Allow me to say this- I believe all the pilots on this forum to be gentlemen( not fops) and all are passionate about this craft and "hobby". Yes, I fume when someone refers to "toy airplanes". Anyone- that's most of you guys have, so much talent and craftsmanship AND you are willing to share with anyone who has interest. We live in an unusual time. Brett- you are quite correct in your assessment of the pattern of economic stupidity we are witnessing that surely must come to a crushing end. For now, I'm spending hours on end reading and enjoying the thoughts and expressions of every pilot- even those who ask elementary questions(like me). LHS are a victim of the aforementioned pattern and it's unlikely to change.Let's just be glad (and satisfied) for the moment that we can cross the miles on this site and literally at events where we can watch it happen. I found a shop in San Antonio that had some C/L products and have spent a couple of hundred on the small family fun business. They make their living off those willing to pay hundreds (or thousands) for helis and cars and R/C goods. But they are willing to spend time yakking about the good old days. I remember buying an Os Max 35S from Al when he had a shop in Gulfgate Mall in Houston in the '60s. Small world but IT'S our world. Let's not tear it apart. Serge isn't the enemy- he's another pilot with his POV. I'm trying to spend the "retirement" money with everyone in the trade because they love it and it;s the only game in town. Soglad you take the time, expense, and endure the punishment to bring this site to us, Admiral Bob. PS hope this gets posted before you shut down this threads

[Jim Carter]

The LHS is about to be as extinct as the dinosaur.    A retail store rent cost is in the $2500 or more a month plus electric/HVAC/telephone and payroll.  For reference that is $100 a day every day.  How can anyone cover that and be competitively priced against an internet outlet.  The internet outlets margins are tiny.  I would guess in the .05 to .10 % range.  They make money on volume.  For a LHS to exist on that margin they would need to have $1000 a day in sales just to cover overhead w/o payroll. The LHS just doesn't have enough volume and cannot justify big inventory.  We all share in the blame.  Every time buy something from Tower Hobbies we help run the LHS out of business.

  You are oh so right on the money!!  I just closed the doors to my LSH last March after 15 years.  I operated in a fairly small town but the local customer base obviously found it less expensive to order on-line for the bigger profit items rather than order or buy items from me.  Our primary sales were for the screws, nuts, bolts and glues.  Kits, radios, engines etcetera just sat on the shelf collecting dust until some of the local modelers came around to ask for discounts thus wiping out all profit on that item.  I was fortunate, my monthly overhead (just to open the doors 6 days per week, 10 hours per day) was roughly $1800 but unfortunately our monthly net sales averaged $700 - $1200.  I just couldn't afford to settle for and continue to operate on the 30-40% dealer discount from the major wholesalers especially when their sales and special shipping ended up cutting out margin to 12-20%.  A few years ago, John Brodak, God Bless him, visited our store and even shipped in about $2500 worth of merchandise for me to stock and gave me about 4 months to sell it.  Of all our local and regional modelers I just couldn't sell all of it!!  It took over 5 years just to break even on it but Lord knows those same "customers" told me of the great deals they got from so and so hobby on line or Ebay or some such.  Well after 15 years I'm getting some of those "good" deals!  Ha ha ha ha!!

[55chevr]

The rub on the whole deal was the local RC guys would buy the big items (Engines, ARFs, Radios) on line and then go to the LHS for Dubro hinges and CA. There isn't enough volume on this stuff to support a business.  Fortunately for the LHS, he owns the building and found a viable market in RC cars. He doesn't stock plane stuff because it doesn't move.  This is the Walmart syndrome.  We have all heard the statement, "Walmart ruined America".  There is some truth to this.  It killed the all the small downtown businesses.

[Scott Richlen]

Maybe the hobby shops needed to change their business model to match the changed times.  The old business model assumes that there are zillions of kids out there building model airplanes and needing supplies.  Ooops!  Hobby shops need to take a lesson from the Karate studios.  Karate studios just about died out years ago because their business model was based on adults wanting to learn Karate after seeing Bruce Lee (or similar).  It was fad-driven and not very sustainable.  Actually, control line model airplanes were a fad of the 50s and early 60s.  Just a few (comparably) of us have stayed with it.

The new business model of Karate studios is based on selling to the parents.  What are they selling to the parents?  Not how little Jimmy can kick his friends in the n*ts!  They sell lessons based on the child getting exercise and learning self-discipline, developing character, and getting better grades as a result.  So now, there is a karate studio in almost every strip mall around here with its own bus to pick up the kids for after-school activities.

So why don't hobby shops do the same thing?  Building models is a great lead-in to a STEM career.  Most model builders grow up to be pretty stable adults (this is a straight-line for the amusement of you guys...) and end up with pretty good careers and lives.  Who wouldn't want that for their child?

So....Mr. Hobby Shop owner: change your business model!  Offer an after-school program.  Study the Karate Studio business model.  Sell to the parents.  Train the kids.  Now you can carry far less stock - just the material for your classes.  You also make yourself bullet-proof to the Tower Hobbies of this world.  You will become a valued service industry providing a high-value service to the client: parents who want their children to be capable, understand how things work, learn to focus, and get better grades.


Scott 

[Mark Scarborough]

There are mom and pop hobby shops out there,
in fact I am lucky to be good friends with one of them,, B&B hobbies in Spokane,
Bryan is a bit different than most, he owns every item in the store, no consignments fro manufatures
He pretty much across the board matches Online prices
He does have a minimum for using cards because they cost him money,, cash there is no minimum
He stocks kits from way back, plastics, rc cars, helicopters, ARFS, and all the gadgets and dodads,,
he will ship stuff to me, ( or anyone) , he will special order, and he does carry some Control line stuff,,

This store is not as "pretty" as the Hobby town chain stores, its an older building with every single corner packed with stuff,,
He is a good guy and its still the old school hobby shop experience where you can go hang out for a few hours till the wife is done shopping,,

in fact, I think he has several Control line ARFs on the shelf, a Score, Nobler, and Flite streak as I recall,, I pointed someone on here a while back to him,, for the Score,, not sure how that turned out,,
heck any of you could call him,, but, be aware, he has been at this game for almost 50 years, so he has little patience for guys playing games LOL,,
anyhow, I am lucky, its only 100 miles to the store, and my front pocket for a phone call,,

[55chevr]

Only a hundred miles?

[Chris McMillin]

   Actually, cottage industries are *exactly* what happens in a free-market, and exactly what *should* happen. We have never had such a wide array of high-quality products for stunt for as long as I have been doing it.

    What would you propose an alternative, regulation to force hobby shops to stay in business whether or not they make a profit?

     Brett

LOL!