Bouncy bounce

[johnt4051]

I have a feeling I'll get a lot of responses by asking this question ...

I have a new airplane that I am gradually getting trimmed.  It seems like it will be pretty good.  There is one area, however, in which it seems incorrigible.  It will not land without bouncing.
  Doesn't matter how smoothly I touch down (yes, stop laughing, I can do it once in a while), the plane hops along like a rabbit.  With careful practice (about 16 flights on the plane so far), I have been able to reduce the size of the bounces.
  I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience, and how they solved the problem.
  Further info: The plane has a fuselage-mounted carbon fiber landing gear which is very stiff and two inch soft wheels.  Gear is mounted per plans and looks to me to be in about the right place.
  One theory that occurred to me is that this plane is electric and the CG is a bit farther forward than per plans; could it be that I need to move the wheels farther forward to compensate?  In my experience, having lg too far forward causes bounces, not the opposite, but maybe something I don't know about is going on here.
  Standing back now, waiting for the answers to pour in.
  --jt 

[Tim Wescott]

Before anyone even thinks about telling John he needs to learn to land smoothly, keep in mind that he's the only person I know who can consistently do no-bounce landings with a Ringmaster on pavement.

John, I can't think of anything actually helpful beyond the usual product development analysis: some aspect of the product is special (stiffer landing gear) and something bad is happening (bounce).  If you have any way of testing this with different landing gear with a more normal spring constant you may learn something.  You may not learn anything useful, but you may learn something.

[Perry Rose]

Wing mounted 1/8 inch wire landing gear legs.

[Keith Miller]

Move the LG (specifically the wheels) further back (but still forward of the CG).  That may help reduce the pitching-up when the wheels touch down.  If the wheels are far forward and you have some airspeed on touch-down, the wing pitches up and the plane wants to fly a little longer...

Alternatively, add a long tail wheel that prevents the nose from pitching up on touch-down.

[Dave_Trible]

Like above,  I'd get the wheels back.  You'll reduce the bounce the closer the wheels are to the CG.  Also I'd bet the landing gear isn't quite as stiff as you might think.  Fuselage mounted gear,  in my experience are more likely to bounce due to the angular gear spread allowing extra spring over a wing mounted gear where the legs are more in line with the landing shock.  Low-bounce wheels might help a little.

Dave

[Mike Haverly]

     Since this is an electric powered model, the LG is already farther back relative to the CG than a similar IC powered model.  I had the same experience with my Sultan, same CF fuselage mounted LG.  I just had to learn how to land!
     One trick I heard, I can't be sure from whom, seems way too easy but takes some practice.  As the wheels touch extend your arm and take small steps toward the airplane.  It works and with practice becomes second nature. 
     Now if I could just apply everything that I've been told in the rest of the pattern.
     
     
     

[john e. holliday]

Hey John, have you forgot how to land a racing plane?   Too slow is bad and down elevator when wheels touch.

[John Rist]

Hey John, have you forgot how to land a racing plane?   Too slow is bad and down elevator when wheels touch.

My scale Extra 300S tends to bounce.  As John said land hot and apply down ele when wheel touch.  This is what works on my scale ship.  Of course scale is all different.  Landing gear location is fixed per real aircraft and I have full motor throttle control.  As it turns out the landing gear is so far forward that she will not nose over even with full down.  Also she weighs a ton.

[Steve Helmick]

The wheels actually make a huge difference. Try some 2.25" dia. Dave Brown Electric wheels...the narrow ones. 

On the blue F'Twister, I changed from what was on it to some Hobbico or GrapeLames wheels I got at a swap meet. Went from easy to land to a real challenge. Too much rubber, I suspect.    Steve

[bob whitney]

  you are in No mans land , there is two ways to go ,if u are on pavement you need to set it up so that it balances at 15 deg from level  on the wheels. on grass it will prob tip over on landing, bigger wheels will help ,and move wheels forward just enough as not to tip

 Plan 2 is to move the wheels ( bend ) forward almost to the front of the plane and then like they said increase the lengh of the tail skid .with this one you need to keep it aloft as long as possable and drop it in bot it shouldnt bounce.  i have 2 sets of gear for most of my stunters one for pavement and one for grass

[bob whitney]

  one thing i forgot is that i have gone to 5/32 wire with the great piano wire we get now, this will take some of the spring out of it

[johnt4051]

Hey John, have you forgot how to land a racing plane?   Too slow is bad and down elevator when wheels touch.

OK, I got it.  After it shuts off, shake the tail three times, slam it on the ground, and tip it on its nose just as it gets to the pitman.   

Seriously, thanks for all the good suggestions, some of which I would not have thought of.  Now I have a bit more to go on!